Federal funds are OK for the crosstown, why not for public safety too

[Mikemarsh51]

The SAFER Grant will pay money to cities to hire back firefighters that have been laid off, fill positions that have been eliminated, and even hire more to bring cities up to the 4 man NFPA minimum standard. The money first goes to cities that laid firefighters off, then to cities that have eliminated positions. Therefore, we would be pretty high on the list. We have been told there is a good chance we could get the funding if we applied. OCFD Union President Sipe has been pushing our administration, city manager, and council to apply since they cut the positions July 1.

The city manager has not been receptive. In fact he has been openly against it. The program does say that the federal government will pay for the positions for two years and the city must pay for the positions the third year. That has been what Couch has hung his hat on. He says they can't make a promise to keep the positions in three years because we might not have the funds. At the council meeting last week Sipe pointed out to them (actually read to them like grade school kids because they have no desire to read it on their own) they can get out of paying the third year if they don't have the money.

So why would Couch be against free money? Probably because this whole thing is not about the city having enough money. If you have seen the latest sales tax report you know the city just collected the biggest tax check EVER collected in Oklahoma City! In this political climate they see an opportunity to reduce essential services. This is a slam dunk if the city manager doesn't sabotage it which is a real possibility.

[Midtowner]

Sounds unconstitutional. A municipality can't obligate itself to pay things beyond the current fiscal year.

[Mikemarsh51]

Doubt it. Cities receive this benefit and budget for it in that fiscal year.

[MikeOKC]

I agree with you, MikeMarsh. I think that with some council members wanting to turn this into a "conservative" or "liberal" position is a mistake. You mentioned one example in your subject heading, but there are so many more. If it benefits big business -- there's a stampede to the federal government trough. To not take advantage of programs that secure public safety jobs - based on some conservative principles - is a horrible double-standard. And I'm mostly conservative, btw.

[LordGerald]

The SAFER Grant will pay money to cities to hire back firefighters that have been laid off, fill positions that have been eliminated, and even hire more to bring cities up to the 4 man NFPA minimum standard. The money first goes to cities that laid firefighters off, then to cities that have eliminated positions. Therefore, we would be pretty high on the list. We have been told there is a good chance we could get the funding if we applied. OCFD Union President Sipe has been pushing our administration, city manager, and council to apply since they cut the positions July 1.

The city manager has not been receptive. In fact he has been openly against it. The program does say that the federal government will pay for the positions for two years and the city must pay for the positions the third year. That has been what Couch has hung his hat on. He says they can't make a promise to keep the positions in three years because we might not have the funds. At the council meeting last week Sipe pointed out to them (actually read to them like grade school kids because they have no desire to read it on their own) they can get out of paying the third year if they don't have the money.

So why would Couch be against free money? Probably because this whole thing is not about the city having enough money. If you have seen the latest sales tax report you know the city just collected the biggest tax check EVER collected in Oklahoma City! In this political climate they see an opportunity to reduce essential services. This is a slam dunk if the city manager doesn't sabotage it which is a real possibility.

Don't worry, Marsh. With all the rain we've had in the past few days, there will be plenty of lawns for you to mow this weekend.

[Midtowner]

Doubt it. Cities receive this benefit and budget for it in that fiscal year.

Which cities? I'm talking about the Oklahoma Constitution. You can't obligate state funds beyond the current fiscal year here. How is this not doing that?

[metro]

Mike, you're going about things all the wrong way to win sympathy for the Police and Fire Unions.

[okclee]

Moderators....Why is this not moved to the "How the Police and Fire Union are being screwed" discussion area?

[Jersey Boss]

Which cities? I'm talking about the Oklahoma Constitution. You can't obligate state funds beyond the current fiscal year here. How is this not doing that?

How does Stoops have a multi year contract that comports with the law?

[Wambo36]

Mike, you're going about things all the wrong way to win sympathy for the Police and Fire Unions.

What makes you think he's looking for sympathy from anyone? Consider his a purely informational post that you would have not known about otherwise. If you don't want the info, move on.

[kevinpate]

How does Stoops have a multi year contract that comports with the law?

(a) He technically doesn't have a multi-year agreement (if memory serves, and it may not)
(b) even if he did, hey, that's football, and as football is the center of the universe (or so i often hear) regular laws of physics, etc., would not be applicable.

[rcjunkie]

I see my Firefighters buddies still don't get it (or don't want to get it), oh well, I'm going for a ride on my Harley.

[Mikemarsh51]

Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response (SAFER) Grants

Catalog of Federal Domestic Assistance Number: 97.083
Program
web site http://www.firegrantsupport.com/safer/

Sponsor U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Deadlines September 17, 2010
Purpose The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Federal Emergency Management Agency’s (FEMA) Grant Programs Directorate is responsible for the implementation and administration of the Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response (SAFER) Grants. SAFER grants provide financial assistance to help fire departments increase their cadre of frontline firefighters or to rehire firefighters that have been laid off. The goal is to assist local fire departments with staffing and deployment capabilities so they may respond to emergencies whenever they occur, assuring their communities have adequate protection from fire and fire-related hazards. SAFER offers grants to support activities in two categories: (1) Hiring of Firefighters and (2) Recruitment and Retention of Volunteer Firefighters.
Key Changes: As a result of the passage of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) and the Supplemental Appropriation Act, 2009 (P.L. 111-32), the Fiscal Year (FY) 2010 Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response (SAFER) Grants for the Hiring of Firefighters Activity will be awarded under conditions significantly different from those in effect prior to the passage of these Acts. The content of this Program Guidance and its official issuance reflects the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary’s and FEMA’s implementation of the provisions provided by these Acts. NOTE: These changes ONLY affect the FY 2010 SAFER grants. The new conditions are NOT retroactive to prior year grants nor will they remain in effect beyond FY 2010. Under authorities provided under ARRA and P.L. 111-32, the following requirements are being waived for the FY 2010 SAFER Grant Program:


•Salary limits: There are no annual salary limits.
•Cost-share: There is no prescribed cost-share.
•Retention commitment: Grantees that are rehiring laid off firefighters do not have to commit to retaining the SAFER-funded firefighters. • Period of performance: For Hiring of Firefighters Activity grants, the period of performance has been reduced to 2 years with a commitment to retain the newly hired firefighters for 1 year after the completion of the period of performance.
•Attrition of firefighters during the period of performance: FY 2010 grantees who are unable to back-fill firefighting positions that were vacated due to documentable economic hardship may petition FEMA for a waiver of staffing maintenance requirements. In order to qualify for this waiver, the economic hardship must affect the entire public safety sector in your jurisdiction, and not only the fire department.
Under the Hiring of Firefighters Activity, they will distinguish between grants to hire new firefighters and grants to rehire laid-off firefighters, giving applications for the rehiring of firefighters who have been laid off the highest priority over any other hiring request.

Eligibility •County governments
•City or township governments
•Native American tribal governments (Federally recognized)
•Native American tribal organizations (other than Federally recognized tribal governments)
•Others (see text field entitled "Additional Information on Eligibility" for clarification)

Geographic
coverage Nationwide
Amount of
funding Expected Number of Awards: 400
Estimated Total Program Funding: $420,000,000
Application
process Address to Request Application Package At the start of the application period, an online tutorial will be available for applicants at www.firegrantsupport.com. The online tutorial provides guidance regarding the preparation of a competitive grant application and the SAFER application requirements. All applicants are strongly encouraged to complete the applicant tutorial prior to beginning their application. The tutorial explains the eligible activities by illustrating many of the application screens. It provides tips for navigating the application screens and summarizes the changes in the SAFER grants for FY 2010. In addition, the tutorial provides a review of the lessons learned from previous years. FEMA makes all funding opportunities available through the common electronic “storefront” grants.gov, accessible on the Internet at http://www.grants.gov. If you experience difficulties accessing information or have any questions please call the grants.gov customer support hotline at (800) 518-4726.
A link to the application is available through Grants.gov at: http://www.grants.gov/search/search....NSNGhjjZTZNLCs QL20dnHxcSb6pFHyvjLgZVn!30263611?oppId=56660&mode= VIEW

[metro]

What makes you think he's looking for sympathy from anyone? Consider his a purely informational post that you would have not known about otherwise. If you don't want the info, move on.

Simple, we've seen enough of his posts.

[Wambo36]

Simple, we've seen enough of his posts.

Well maybe you can answer the question of why the city manager would be against this grant. What do you suppose his reasoning is? The city could get 2 yrs worth of funding and if they couldn't afford to pay it on their own, on the third year, there are already outs for them. Sounds like a resonable solution to the manpower problems that have seen us put rigs out of service. I wonder why he's against it? For that matter, I wonder why you're attacking the messenger?

[MikeOKC]

Well maybe you can answer the question of why the city manager would be against this grant. What do you suppose his reasoning is? The city could get 2 yrs worth of funding and if they couldn't afford to pay it on their own, on the third year, there are already outs for them. Sounds like a resonable solution to the manpower problems that have seen us put rigs out of service. I wonder why he's against it? For that matter, I wonder why you're attacking the messenger?

I agree. This isn't continuing anything, it's a very specific issue that needs addressing. I suppose the opening of the next chain retailer is more important?

[Larry OKC]

How does Stoops have a multi year contract that comports with the law?

Seems I read a while back (probably when Stoops contract was up for renegotiation) that his salary (and the entire OU football program) do NOT use any state funds, they are financed thru the success of the program itself

[MikeOKC]

Seems I read a while back (probably when Stoops contract was up for renegotiation) that his salary (and the entire OU football program) do NOT use any state funds, they are financed thru the success of the program itself

I hate that argument and always have. There wouldn't be a "success" of anything had the state not built and supported the university for years. The university has to beg for tuition increases and students have to find even more financing to pay the higher tuition, while the football coach at this state-supported institution makes millions of dollars a year. It's just absurd beyond any reasonable defense. It's such a joke it's almost ruined my enjoyment of this sport of so-called "student athletes." It's a big business, a farm team for the NFL, and should be treated as such. The charade of "student-athletes" is laughable. Look at the African-American graduation rates at OU, including those who play ball at Oklahoma, and look at who even belonged in college in the first place.....it's all just for show....but what an expensive (and profitable) show it is. Boomer Sooner.....while many of these kids couldn't even tell you the name of the Vice President of the United States.

[Mikemarsh51]

Metro, I am curious who the "we" you speak of is? What makes you think your narcissistic veiws are more important than anyone else on this forum. Lord GerryJoe, Where have you been? Your right, the money is good, averages about $50 an hour. Christmas is paid for and we are planning our spring ski trip. Picked up a couple of nice Sigs last month too.

[ljbab728]

I hate that argument and always have. There wouldn't be a "success" of anything had the state not built and supported the university for years. The university has to beg for tuition increases and students have to find even more financing to pay the higher tuition, while the football coach at this state-supported institution makes millions of dollars a year. It's just absurd beyond any reasonable defense. It's such a joke it's almost ruined my enjoyment of this sport of so-called "student athletes." It's a big business, a farm team for the NFL, and should be treated as such. The charade of "student-athletes" is laughable. Look at the African-American graduation rates at OU, including those who play ball at Oklahoma, and look at who even belonged in college in the first place.....it's all just for show....but what an expensive (and profitable) show it is. Boomer Sooner.....while many of these kids couldn't even tell you the name of the Vice President of the United States.

Mike, J C Watts might disagree with you. All athletes have to meet the university requirements to be admitted so surely you're not accusing the university of giving certain students exceptions based on athletic abilities. And you may notice I didn't say anything about "African-American" athletes because it isn't a racial issue. Whether the state may have supported the athletic department at some point in the past isn't relative. The athletic department now is self supporting and contributes financially back to the university in other ways that have nothing to do with athletics. Having a very successful athletic department helps greatly when President Boren approaches potential university donors for many projects. He has had astounding successes in that area.

[Larry OKC]

what ljbab728 said...also read recently were the athletic department made a sizeable donation back to the university (and not the 1st time either)...

[MikeOKC]

Mike, J C Watts might disagree with you. All athletes have to meet the university requirements to be admitted so surely you're not accusing the university of giving certain students exceptions based on athletic abilities. And you may notice I didn't say anything about "African-American" athletes because it isn't a racial issue. Whether the state may have supported the athletic department at some point in the past isn't relative. The athletic department now is self supporting and contributes financially back to the university in other ways that have nothing to do with athletics. Having a very successful athletic department helps greatly when President Boren approaches potential university donors for many projects. He has had astounding successes in that area.

As for J.C. Watts - of course there are exceptions.

I said to look at the African-American graduation rates for a reason. We can't pretend that every study that shows blacks, in general, get an inferior education is somehow wrong. So, yeah, it IS a racial issue. And if you think that all those football and basketball players at OU (75% + black) would be accepted if they weren't simply athletic recruits, I have several bridges in Brooklyn to sell you. Who was the football player at OSU that graduated and had the guts to admit he couldn't even read? I don't remember his name. Do YOU honestly believe that don't make exceptions in probably 85%+ of the cases -- all across the NCAA -- coast-to-coast? Will you hear about it? It's a big, big business, so no, of course not. But you and I both know it. Pretend if you wish. Have you listened to some post-game interviews? These are college-educated "student-athletes?"

Sorry, this is a thread derail (my fault) and not fair to MikeMarsh. Sorry, I originally was trying to make a point regarding the issue at hand.

[bombermwc]

Sounds exactlly like why you don't hire PEOPLE with bond money. It's not going to be there in a few years and you can't gurantee that it will be replaced. Would you want to take a job knowing that in 3 years, you have a pretty sure chance of losing that job? That means there's absolutely no change of promotion in that short of a time, and you're also seen as expendable because they already know you're gone anyway.

[kevinpate]

Haven't some cities in the state previously added on additional some law enforcement folk via time limited federal funds? I thought I had read something along those lines for OKC ro Norman or elsewhere in the state a while back. Maybe it was an equipment for existing forces grant instead. Head so stuffy today I am not thinking real clear.

[OKCGUY3]

Yes, I believe our very own City Manager not even a year ago agreed that the federal grant money available to hire 7 police officers for two years with the caviate that the city had to pay them for the third year, was a splendid idea. And they were hired. I remember the issue from a city council meeting but do not have the specifics. I am sure someone here will remember this and be able to provide more details. If I remember correctly, they were hired specificlaly for a drug or gang program. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I was wrong, it was for TRUANCY. http://www.okc.gov/agendapub/view.as...&fileid=816370