Is Oklahoma courting TESLA's Battery Factory project?

[OKVision4U]

I see that Arizona / Texas / NM / NV are the leaders in selection process. TESLA is looking for a large area that will be condusive to Solar / Wind / and relatively flat... ( see Oklahoma ).

So where is our push for this project? ...this is one of the largest projects in the US. They are looking at this having 6,500 jobs in the factory alone.

Clues emerge for Tesla's $5 billion battery factory - Fortune Tech

Are we making an offer, or are we sitting this one out?

[gopokes88]

There isn't a push because Oklahoma isn't going to get it. NM will probably land it according to a few analysts.
California Analysts like New Mexico for Tesla Plant | Albuquerque News - KOAT Home
http://www.abqjournal.com/362389/new...a-chances.html

[ou48A]

The higher populated areas of Oklahoma don't have the best rail connections.
Our rail service was an issue for GM.
I'm not sure how we could help but it might be a better investment for the state if it we were spending our very limited resources on freight rail than for very limited passenger trains.

[Rover]

I see that Arizona / Texas / NM / NV are the leaders in selection process. TESLA is looking for a large area that will be condusive to Solar / Wind / and relatively flat... ( see Oklahoma ).

So where is our push for this project? ...this is one of the largest projects in the US. They are looking at this having 6,500 jobs in the factory alone.

Clues emerge for Tesla's $5 billion battery factory - Fortune Tech

Are we making an offer, or are we sitting this one out?

Just curious...we have a number of posters who claim incentives are just unfair corporate welfare and the result of greedy capitalism. How many on this site believe the state should offer incentives to get this? Or, should we just let others do that? We can take the "high road" philosophically and not compete for these things, or get down and dirty and try to attract these jobs. Which should we do? We have a great many isolationist, tea party libertarians in OK...would they support incentives for this?

[Jeepnokc]

Just curious...we have a number of posters who claim incentives are just unfair corporate welfare and the result of greedy capitalism. How many on this site believe the state should offer incentives to get this? Or, should we just let others do that? We can take the "high road" philosophically and not compete for these things, or get down and dirty and try to attract these jobs. Which should we do? We have a great many isolationist, tea party libertarians in OK...would they support incentives for this?

I will probably get thrown under the bus here but when it comes to making money...you have to spend money to make money. I would rather spend 10,000 to make 50,000 with a net profit of 40k than spend nothing... make nothing leaving zero net profit. Of course, I also believe when it comes to rick...the bigger juicier fruit is always at the end of the branch so you have to be willing to take the bigger risk to get the bigger reward.

[OKVision4U]

Just curious...we have a number of posters who claim incentives are just unfair corporate welfare and the result of greedy capitalism. How many on this site believe the state should offer incentives to get this? Or, should we just let others do that? We can take the "high road" philosophically and not compete for these things, or get down and dirty and try to attract these jobs. Which should we do? We have a great many isolationist, tea party libertarians in OK...would they support incentives for this?

When it comes down to it, it probably is not that we can't match or exceed the other offers, just a willingness to do so.

This is the type of High Profile / New Tech jobs that we should be attracting. I'm for the Oil / Gas / Wind / Solar / ...and TESLA Battery factories here at home.

[Midtowner]

Just curious...we have a number of posters who claim incentives are just unfair corporate welfare and the result of greedy capitalism. How many on this site believe the state should offer incentives to get this? Or, should we just let others do that? We can take the "high road" philosophically and not compete for these things, or get down and dirty and try to attract these jobs. Which should we do? We have a great many isolationist, tea party libertarians in OK...would they support incentives for this?

It's absolutely unfair and uncapitalistic and wrong. I say all that knowing full well that we HAVE to do that in order to bring jobs to OKC. I support federal legislation to outlaw this sort of thing, but have no idea what that legislation would look like.

Imagine if the way cities had to compete for new industry was to improve their own city in such a way that the employer would rather live there than anyplace else? Kind of MAPS on steroids.

[hoya]

That type of legislation would be incredibly difficult to craft. You can't cover every type of action a city could possibly come up with.

[Rover]

So, would cities be able to build infrastructure to lure businesses? Is training its citizenry any worse incentive than building a street to access their new building? Is subsidizing airline or train activity to provide more connections to attract more businesses corporate welfare? What tools could cities use to attract businesses? If you have 2,000 bars, all buildings built to the street, and streetcars everywhere, but no jobs, will there be a workforce big enough to lure new industries and businesses?

[ou48A]

I support federal legislation to outlaw this sort of thing, but have no idea what that legislation would look like.

The entire world is doing this and in many cases they do far more then we do in the USA...

If we don't keep up and add to the incentives the USA will lose millions of more jobs to other nations that already make a much larger effort in this area than we do.

Oklahoma is behind the curve on this.....
It's one reason why our state ranks so low on income rankings.

[onthestrip]

The entire world is doing this and in many cases they do far more then we do in the USA...

If we don't keep up and add to the incentives the USA will lose millions of more jobs to other nations that already make a much larger effort in this area than we do.

Oklahoma is behind the curve on this.....
It's one reason why our state ranks so low on income rankings.

Or its because we are poorly educated.

[onthestrip]

So, would cities be able to build infrastructure to lure businesses? Is training its citizenry any worse incentive than building a street to access their new building? Is subsidizing airline or train activity to provide more connections to attract more businesses corporate welfare? What tools could cities use to attract businesses? If you have 2,000 bars, all buildings built to the street, and streetcars everywhere, but no jobs, will there be a workforce big enough to lure new industries and businesses?

Improving infrastructure, quality of life and education sounds like a much better way to incentivize companies to locate here. Just think, instead of just giving cash payments or preferred tax breaks to companies, doing the things I listed would effect everyone much more directly. Right now we just give out money and hope that it pays off at some point several years down the road. I would love to see some economist do a study on the return we get for the Quality Jobs money we give, the governors quick closing fund and other incentives given. As of now, we have no idea if these are beneficial.

[Mel]

I don't like bribes in any form.

[ou48A]

Or its because we are poorly educated.

There are several reasons why and I listed it as one reason why !

[ou48A]

I don't like bribes in any form.

But most publicly traded companies in the world do take incentives... (or bribes)
The better total package we can offer to business, the better off we will become.

[Rover]

Improving infrastructure, quality of life and education sounds like a much better way to incentivize companies to locate here. Just think, instead of just giving cash payments or preferred tax breaks to companies, doing the things I listed would effect everyone much more directly. Right now we just give out money and hope that it pays off at some point several years down the road. I would love to see some economist do a study on the return we get for the Quality Jobs money we give, the governors quick closing fund and other incentives given. As of now, we have no idea if these are beneficial.

I think most of the direct incentive programs in Oklahoma involve providing infrastructure to enable them, providing training so they will be able to hire a competent work force when one does not already exist, and tax incentives which are earned (not cash given in advance) when they achieve levels of investment and payroll. These all seem like reasonable things to do and ones that should have a good long term payback to the city and state.

[Rover]

But most publicly traded companies in the world do take incentives... (or bribes)
The better total package we can offer to business, the better off we will become.

Some of you need to learn the definitions of incentives and bribes and what the difference is. BIG difference. To use them interchangeably because of a lack of understanding, or to imply they are equal either in ethics or legality, is wrong.

[Dubya61]

Some of you need to learn the definitions of incentives and bribes and what the difference is. BIG difference. To use them interchangeably because of a lack of understanding, or to imply they are equal either in ethics or legality, is wrong.

Life is a tragedy when seen in close-up, but a comedy in long-shot. -- Charlie Chaplin
Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die. -- Mel Brooks
An incentive is when my bribe is successful. A bribe is when your incentive is successful. -- Dubya61

[OKVision4U]

I think most of the direct incentive programs in Oklahoma involve providing infrastructure to enable them, providing training so they will be able to hire a competent work force when one does not already exist, and tax incentives which are earned (not cash given in advance) when they achieve levels of investment and payroll. These all seem like reasonable things to do and ones that should have a good long term payback to the city and state.

The bottom line is this, if we are going to let these types of projects just pass us by without making some kind of effort to secure them, then we need an to re-think our approach to corporate america. This project fits the profile for an Oklahoma campaign to bring it to our state. Large / Flat / Wind / Solar ....and close to Rail ??? Hello Central Oklahoma. So why are we not pushing for it? Where is Ms. Fallin?

[gopokes88]

The bottom line is this, if we are going to let these types of projects just pass us by without making some kind of effort to secure them, then we need an to re-think our approach to corporate america. This project fits the profile for an Oklahoma campaign to bring it to our state. Large / Flat / Wind / Solar ....and close to Rail ??? Hello Central Oklahoma. So why are we not pushing for it? Where is Ms. Fallin?

Because its too late to push for it the final cuts have already been made. You can't push when they already passed on Oklahoma.

[Paseofreak]

It seems as though Oklahoma was never in the running and it appears to me that this selection process was a private effort, entirely within the offices of Tesla until the four finalists were announced. Also, Albuquerque is 550 miles closer to where each and every one of those batteries need to go than central Oklahoma. That's not an insignificant cost.

[Bunty]

Improving infrastructure, quality of life and education sounds like a much better way to incentivize companies to locate here. Just think, instead of just giving cash payments or preferred tax breaks to companies, doing the things I listed would effect everyone much more directly. Right now we just give out money and hope that it pays off at some point several years down the road. I would love to see some economist do a study on the return we get for the Quality Jobs money we give, the governors quick closing fund and other incentives given. As of now, we have no idea if these are beneficial.

But that would mean coming up with capital improvement projects, meaning getting voters to raise their taxes to finance them. Good luck with that. A lot of people already feel taxed enough.

[BG918]

Most seem to think it will be Reno or San Antonio.

Battery production is a growth industry and cities landing these plants are like landing big steel mills 50 years ago.

[mugofbeer]

It's absolutely unfair and uncapitalistic and wrong. I say all that knowing full well that we HAVE to do that in order to bring jobs to OKC. I support federal legislation to outlaw this sort of thing, but have no idea what that legislation would look like.

Imagine if the way cities had to compete for new industry was to improve their own city in such a way that the employer would rather live there than anyplace else? Kind of MAPS on steroids.

But back in the land of reality............really Mid, its a nice thought but its never going to happen. Therefore, incentives absolutely ARE the right thing to do as long as you are giving the company the key to the state treasury. When cities do things like OKC did back in the 80s where the citizens were voting sales tax hikes that were to virtually given directly to companies like Micron Technology or United Airlines without air-tight safeguards to ensure the companies do what they say they are going to do (unlike either of these firms - Micron never built in Utah and United closed their maintenance facility in Indianapolis), that's when companies take advantage of the incentives. The current state jobs program seems to have good safeguards built in, quarterly monitoring and standards that must be kept, etc.

Cities like OKC don't have mountains, beautiful rivers, oceans, international airports or major league sports and cultural entities that other cities have. Albuquerque has very cheap labor, plenty of land and good weather. For something to be built like a Tesla battery plant in this country when competing against foreign labor costs, very cheap labor moves mountains.

[ljbab728]

[/QUOTE]Cities like OKC don't have mountains, beautiful rivers, oceans, international airports or major league sports and cultural entities that other cities have. Albuquerque has very cheap labor, plenty of land and good weather. For something to be built like a Tesla battery plant in this country when competing against foreign labor costs, very cheap labor moves mountains.[/QUOTE]

Huh?