Will OKC lose the Big 12 Baseball Tournament?

[adaniel]

I heard Jim Traber bellowing about this on the FOX 25 sports show tonight, but after further research is does appear the Big 12 is shopping around for sites. Both Round Rock Texas and Tulsa are prepping bids to host the tournament in 2012-2014.

Tulsa World: ONEOK Field eyes Big 12 tourney

Express bid to host Big 12 Baseball Tournament - WeAreAustin.com

After looking at both storys, I don't think Round Rock will host a tournament no matter how much cash Nolan Ryan throws at the Big 12 because the North schools will complain about driving too far. There's not enough hotel rooms in the area, and the Big 12 shot down a similar request from Frisco, Texas, another overgrown suburb, a while back.

Tulsa, well that's another story. Its sort of in the center of the conference, and officials with the Big 12 seem to always be impressed with shiny and new (see: Sprint Center, Jerryworld). Also, I know a new hotel is about to open up in downtown Tulsa. Plus there seems to be a wave of new restaurants opening up in the area.

My question is, whats the chance that this tourney bolts OKC at the end of 2011? I think we offer a good package, but do the Big 12 think so as well. I know that OKC has hosted a college tournament dating back to Big 8 days, and the only time it hasn't wasn't viewed as a success (read: a pro stadium 2/3 empty down in Arlington). I think it would be a tragedy if it leaves for Tulsa or even Round Rock.

[Spartan]

Chance is good. OKC rested on its laurels with the Big 12 events and we're about to lose both the baseball and basketball tournaments. I heard NCAA tourney had a bad experience in OKC this year.

[metro]

I think OKC still has a good shot, but we can't rest on our laurels. I don't see it going to Round Rock for the same reasons mentioned, and have you been to Tulsa's stadium? Much smaller, nothing really around it, the area around it is dumpy and industrial, you have to drive to go eat, hotel, etc. Bricktown and our DT has a nicer setup than either park as far as proximity to hotel/entertainment/food from stadium. I'm not too worried about us losing this. I think if the tourney does bolt for a year or two, they will learn and move back. I was going to mention Frisco, TX as an alternate site but it seems that you mentioned they turned it down so I'm not too worried as it is in the "Big D" and it is a nicer stadium than Tulsa's.

[okclee]

Big 12 baseball tried leaving once and came running back to Okc. Everyone knows that Okc is the best option for this tournament even if we are resting on our laurels.

[Oil Capital]

Chance is good. OKC rested on its laurels with the Big 12 events and we're about to lose both the baseball and basketball tournaments. I heard NCAA tourney had a bad experience in OKC this year.

How so? That is, how has OKC been resting on its laurels and what was bad about the NCAA's experience this year?

[dmoor82]

Tulsa's new stadium holds what?8k,compared to The Bricks 13-14k!and also i dont know what The hotel room count in DT Tulsa is,but I'm willing to bet its not as much as OKC! I would not be mad if it went to Tulsa,but would be if it went to Round Rock(Austin)!

[adaniel]

Chance is good. OKC rested on its laurels with the Big 12 events and we're about to lose both the baseball and basketball tournaments. I heard NCAA tourney had a bad experience in OKC this year.

Where did you hear that? I knew the basketball and baseball tourney in 2009 had lower attendance, but it was down even more in KC this past spring, likely due to the weak economy.

[mugofbeer]

Where did you hear that? I knew the basketball and baseball tourney in 2009 had lower attendance, but it was down even more in KC this past spring, likely due to the weak economy.

Also, wasn't there bad weather during the tourney? I think Spartan may be imagining things again.

[FritterGirl]

There was horrible weather during the tournament - a snow storm. That, plus the fact that the #1 seed, Kansas, went down after a smackdown by come-from-behind Butler. Most of the Jayhawks fans, who had planned to stick it out through the duration (they are a loyal bunch of basketball followers), hightailed it home after their opening round loss.

These types of things happen at ALL of the regionals.

Neither of those factors was OKC's fault. I've not heard anything "bad" about the tourney, other than the fact that certain teams expected to win, did not.

[Pete]

ONEOK Field (Tulsa) holds 7,800 for baseball while The Brick holds at little over 13,000.

That's a significant difference.


OKC has hosted this tournament 10 of the 12 years it's been in existence.

[onthestrip]

There was horrible weather during the tournament - a snow storm. That, plus the fact that the #1 seed, Kansas, went down after a smackdown by come-from-behind Butler. Most of the Jayhawks fans, who had planned to stick it out through the duration (they are a loyal bunch of basketball followers), hightailed it home after their opening round loss.

These types of things happen at ALL of the regionals.

Neither of those factors was OKC's fault. I've not heard anything "bad" about the tourney, other than the fact that certain teams expected to win, did not.

Frittergirl, your facts are all wrong. Kansas lost in the second round game to Northern Iowa. So Kansas fans were still there en mass for the first and second round games, as well as K States fans. But attendance was still down from the previous times we have hosted. I dont think they even sold all the tickets.

FYI, Kansas was upset in the first round in Oklahoma City back in 2005 by Bucknell. Im not sure they like being a high seed in OKC.

[mugofbeer]

[QUOTE=onthestrip;326340]Frittergirl, your facts are all wrong. Kansas lost in the second round game to Northern Iowa. So Kansas fans were still there en mass for the first and second round games, as well as K States fans. But attendance was still down from the previous times we have hosted. I dont think they even sold all the tickets.QUOTE]

You are correct, it was the second round but the fact still remains that they went home early. The other negative was no Oklahoma team in the regional. Check around, I bet there were few other locations where there wasn't a local favorite in the mix that sold out.

Fritter girl's other point about the weather was correct though. I believe there was bad weather.

[Spartan]

Here's a discussion that I had with the guy who used to run the KC forums. He comes down to OKC every year it seems to see K-State play in a tourney or at OU or whatever. He had a very negative first hand experience that he went into depth with, and he has some really good points about OKC getting complacent and losing hospitality points. He was willing to excuse a lot of things for the bad weather.

OKC for NCAA 1st/2nd rounds

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And metro wrote this:

I think OKC still has a good shot, but we can't rest on our laurels. I don't see it going to Round Rock for the same reasons mentioned, and have you been to Tulsa's stadium? Much smaller, nothing really around it, the area around it is dumpy and industrial, you have to drive to go eat, hotel, etc. Bricktown and our DT has a nicer setup than either park as far as proximity to hotel/entertainment/food from stadium. I'm not too worried about us losing this. I think if the tourney does bolt for a year or two, they will learn and move back. I was going to mention Frisco, TX as an alternate site but it seems that you mentioned they turned it down so I'm not too worried as it is in the "Big D" and it is a nicer stadium than Tulsa's.

The new ONEOK Field is much smaller physically but it is an amazing baseball facility. Everyone is raving about it, even OU/OSU players who play at the Brick, and even the OKC media. John Rohde called it a tie between it and the Brick, so you know that in order to be on par with the Brick that the new Tulsa stadium has to have something great going for it. They can expand the seating into the grass area seating about 9,000 which is not much smaller than the 13,000 or so that can watch a game at the Brick.

As for the environment around the new stadium... can't think of anywhere in all of Oklahoma that has as many different infill projects going on. No, none of them are 850 ft tall..but we're talking real urbanism here, several blocks of infill development. Every time the TDA meets they deal with 4-5 development proposals at a time. DT Tulsa is hot. Too bad the Tulsa v. OKC attitude just makes it impossible to have a sane conversation about the two cities...

As for "dumpy and industrial" .. um, you realize that you're talking about another city's Bricktown area, right? Greenwood itself has more history, some good, some terrible..but overall more history than just about anywhere in Oklahoma and today's resurgence in the former "Black Wall Street" is a dream come true for Greenwood community activists. They're doing a LOT to honor their history which is awesome, while growing by leaps and bounds at the same time.

I can't help but rave about OKC's two cities, and yeah, I rave about everything that OKC is doing to outsiders as well. But come on guys. Face it, we have gotten complacent, we've gotten full of ourselves, and we've gotten smug. We've still the Big Friendly, but what happened to that Okie modesty that people like? Go to a "real city" and you'll realize how far OKC still has to come and all I'm saying is that we still have our work cut out for us in terms of that, focus on continued improvement, not on boasting and beating down competitor cities. That's for cities with an inferiority complex which we certainly have nothing inferior about us.

Like I've been saying, face the facts dammit. Competition is real and OKC isn't the center of the universe just yet. ONEOK Field is a real threat to the baseball tourney, which is a double whammy because KC and the Big 12 north are making power plays as we speak to land the basketball tourney permanently in KC and it remains to be seen whether the Texas schools will support OKC or not.

[Oil Capital]

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The new ONEOK Field is much smaller physically but it is an amazing baseball facility. Everyone is raving about it, even OU/OSU players who play at the Brick, and even the OKC media. John Rohde called it a tie between it and the Brick, so you know that in order to be on par with the Brick that the new Tulsa stadium has to have something great going for it. They can expand the seating into the grass area seating about 9,000 which is not much smaller than the 13,000 or so that can watch a game at the Brick.

As for the environment around the new stadium... can't think of anywhere in all of Oklahoma that has as many different infill projects going on. No, none of them are 850 ft tall..but we're talking real urbanism here, several blocks of infill development. Every time the TDA meets they deal with 4-5 development proposals at a time. DT Tulsa is hot. Too bad the Tulsa v. OKC attitude just makes it impossible to have a sane conversation about the two cities...

As for "dumpy and industrial" .. um, you realize that you're talking about another city's Bricktown area, right? Greenwood itself has more history, some good, some terrible..but overall more history than just about anywhere in Oklahoma and today's resurgence in the former "Black Wall Street" is a dream come true for Greenwood community activists. They're doing a LOT to honor their history which is awesome, while growing by leaps and bounds at the same time.

I believe the Brick can also hold more than its stated "seating" capacity of 13K+. At least they have recorded attendance of 15,000+, including for games at the Big XII tournament. To say that 9,000 "is not much smaller than 15,000 (or even 13,000)" is just silly, especially if the event has actually been selling more than 9,000 tickets.

You are right that Tulsa is FINALLY getting around to doing some exciting development in their downtown. But of course you exaggerate by enormous proportions. TDA deals with 4-5 development proposals at every one of their meetings? Even if that is true, just how many of those development proposals see the light of day? VERY FEW. The most exciting and interesting stuff happening in downtown Tulsa has NOTHING to do with TDA.

But more to the point. For all of the improvement and prospective improvement, at the end of the day, the Big XII wants to take its tourney to a place with a good atmosphere on the days of the tournament, not five years or ten years hence. And by good atmosphere, I am referring of course to having a substantial number of bars and restaurants and hotels within an easy (and pleasant) walking distance from the event venue.

Unfortunately, Tulsa is still a long ways from having that. I've had the same discussion in the past regarding Tulsa's bids for the Big XII basketball tournament. It takes nothing away from the venue itself (BOK Center or Oneok Field) or from Tulsa. But these decisions are not made in vacuum. Why would the Big XII choose a smaller venue over a larger one (when they in fact use the capacity of the larger one)? Why would the Big XII choose to move to a venue that has FAR fewer restaurants, bars and hotels within an easy and pleasant walk?

Unless OKC has REALLY dropped the ball in a major way (something for which we have no evidence), I just don't see it happening.

[metro]

Spartan, please post pics of Tulsa's "Bricktown" and all the stuff within safe walking distance from ONEOKC field. I was just there 2 months ago and most of the area was sketchy.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

Spartan, please post pics of Tulsa's "Bricktown" and all the stuff within safe walking distance from ONEOKC field. I was just there 2 months ago and most of the area was sketchy.

He wont because he can't. Instead, he is going to rant about how it is developing and we need to be worried about what does not even exist yet.


And spartan, 9k vs 13k. that is 4k people, which is alot considering that is roughly 40% of the capacity of OneOk field. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about, so just stop. You made yourself look like an idiot when you tried to make out OCU's law school to be better than OU's, and backed up your opinion with little facts. You tell us the "face the fact's, damnit" but you do not face them yourself.

[okcboy]

Why don't we just play hardball with the Big 12. They've seen what happens when they chase the money. They know that the Brick is the best place for this event. Its all about negotiations. Just don't think the ASA wants to take
that risk.

[OSUFan]

Not trying to sound like a jerk but do you have any more info than one, random guy on a message board that says there wasn't enough "flair" in the city?

That seems a little flimsy, at best, to say we are resting on the past.

[metro]

I'll post a few pictures of Tulsa's "Bricktown" by ONEOK field in case Spartan is busy.











Just do a Google Streetview on ONEOK Field Tulsa and there are many run down buildings and empty fields.

[Oil Capital]

[QUOTE=OSUFan;326481]Not trying to sound like a jerk but do you have any more info than one, random guy on a message board that says there wasn't enough "flair" in the city?

That seems a little flimsy, at best, to say we are resting on the past.[/QUOTEJ

Indeed. In fact, it's worse than just some "random" guy. It's a random guy from a competing city (a city that is not happy about sharing basketball events with this upstart in OK)

[Swake2]

I think it should be pointed out that I believe the fields you are showing are actually where the ballpark is now located and therefore no longer exist, the multistory brick building is now renovated and the home of Living Arts of Tulsa and the interior shot is of the Mayo which now looks like this:

[metro]

Mayo isn't near the ballpark, and sorry most of those fields were across the street in two different directions.

[BG918]

Both of those 'fields' are now developed. The one in the first pic is now John Hope Franklin Park and the one in the second pic is the ballpark itself. The old warehouse in the third pic is still there but the one across the street has been renovated and is actually the Tulsa office for OKC-based Perimeter Technology. Several other buildings around the ballpark have been renovated since Google streetview took these pics 2 years ago. I agree there is not much in the way of bars/restaurants within the immediate vicinity of the ballpark like in OKC but there are a similar amount in the Blue Dome area a couple blocks south along Elgin.

[OKCMallen]

I think OKC still has a good shot, but we can't rest on our laurels. I don't see it going to Round Rock for the same reasons mentioned, and have you been to Tulsa's stadium? Much smaller, nothing really around it, the area around it is dumpy and industrial, you have to drive to go eat, hotel, etc.

False.

[dmoor82]

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?