Should we merge county and city governments in Oklahoma's large cities?

[oneforone]

Since every politican is asking for a handout (new tax/tax increase) I think it is time to merge the city and county governments under one umbrella.

As it is some of the smaller cities are barely scraping by while the county add tax after tax to support a small sector of the county.

At the very least we should elminate the county commisssion and turn the functions over to the cities. Sooner or later all of Oklahoma County will be incorporated by OKC or another metro city.

[Midtowner]

Until they are, I don't see the point in doing as you suggest.

The Oklahoma County Sheriff still handles a lot of the County. Further, I'd hate to turn over complete control to places like Valley Brook.

[andy157]

Until they are, I don't see the point in doing as you suggest.

The Oklahoma County Sheriff still handles a lot of the County. Further, I'd hate to turn over complete control to places like Valley Brook.

Valley Brook is already in complete control... that is of Valley Brook. Aren't they?

[dcsooner]

Yes!, that is what Indianapolis did back in the 80's and that City went from Indianowhere to now a vibrant city. It was called UniGov.

[oneforone]

If Oklahoma City ever makes good on the threat to charge Valley Brook for fire services they will cease operations as a town. Strip club fines, DUI's and a couple of convienence stores will not pay the bill OCFD will charge.

[Midtowner]

If Oklahoma City ever makes good on the threat to charge Valley Brook for fire services they will cease operations as a town. Strip club fines, DUI's and a couple of convienence stores will not pay the bill OCFD will charge.

I don't know why they haven't done that already. That place is of zero value to anyone except those involved in that kangaroo court extortion scheme.

[metro]

I think it might be at least worth considering if we had a countywide emergency services system (fire, police, ambulance).

[okiebadger]

Why not go further than that? Combine the county into a single governmental unit and eliminate all the island municipalities surrounded by OKC. It certainly would simplify all sorts of planning issues, including zoning and transit. And it would solve the problem of Valley Brook.

[metro]

In theory that would be more efficient, however I don't see old guard communites such as Bethany, Village, Warr Acres, etc. letting go.

[soonerfever]

Yes!, that is what Indianapolis did back in the 80's and that City went from Indianowhere to now a vibrant city. It was called UniGov.

Nashville did the same thing a few years ago. Not only did their population jump by 150,000 but it also spurred huge growth. Nashville is now the fastest growing metro in Tennessee.

In theory that would be more efficient, however I don't see old guard communites such as Bethany, Village, Warr Acres, etc. letting go.

Wasn't Warr Acres having problems paying for their police department a few months ago? I was thinking I had heard that the OC Sherriff was pretty much patroling the city.

[OU Adonis]

What are the laws on this? Must the smaller cities submit to incorporation? Could Oklahoma county just run county services area's outide of cities to force them to join OKC?

[okiebadger]

What are the laws on this? Must the smaller cities submit to incorporation? Could Oklahoma county just run county services area's outide of cities to force them to join OKC?

Under present state law the smaller cities have the same rights as larger so no, they can't be forced to join OKC. This would require action by the state legislature. I'm pretty sure that you would observe icicles in the seventh level of hell before that would happen. There simply are too many empires built up over too long a time for that to happen. Plus it is too good an idea to NOT be shot down.

[Midtowner]

Under state law, municipal charters are revocable by the State government as far as I know. Municipalities have no "right" to exist.

[soonerfever]

The Oklahoma State Constitution is somewhat vague on this matter. (At least what I have read). It states that counties must have a minimum population of 15,000 and taxable income of at least $2.5 million.

As far as municipalities it states,
"Municipal corporations shall not be created by special laws,
but the Legislature, by general laws shall provide for the
incorporation and organization of cities and towns and the
classification of same in proportion to population, subject to
the provisions of this article."
and it also states,
"Every municipal corporation now existing within this State shall continue with all of its present rights and powers until
otherwise provided by law, and shall always have the additional
rights and powers conferred by the Constitution."

From what I get out of this is that, like stated in above posts, the state legislature would have to get involved as well as the city(s) and county(s) involved.

[okiebadger]

Under state law, municipal charters are revocable by the State government as far as I know. Municipalities have no "right" to exist.

Right. The charters are revocable by the STATE government, so OKC can't simply take them over. As I said earlier, the legislature would have to become involved.

[JBuzz7373]

Bethany looked at having OKC cover their fire service and turned it down recently. I think another city, may have been Warr Acres looked at county covering their police service and again decided against it. Most people in the unicorporated areas do not want to give up their county officers either...

[OU Adonis]

You would think it would save a lot of money to absorb some of the smaller cities.

[okiebadger]

"The Oklahoma State Constitution is somewhat vague on this matter. (At least what I have read). It states that counties must have a minimum population of 15,000 and taxable income of at least $2.5 million."

Are you sure that you read this right? minimum population of 15,000? Are you sure it isn't 1,500? Of our 77 counties, 32 of them have fewer than 15,000 as of the 2000 census. Several of them are less than 5,000. I'm sorry, I don't mean to doubt you, but this just doesn't compute for me.

[metro]

So if a smaller municipality, let's say Bethany decides to go with a countywide government system, are they still a municipality? Or by doing so does OKC incorporate them as OKC proper? Do they still function as a city, just have much less key employees for the actual city?

[PennyQuilts]

I think it would be a nightmare to try to combine employees from different jurisdictions who are paid differently, have different benefits, different retirement permutations and different seniority levels, supervisory duties, etc. Moreover, to combine might be (MIGHT BE) more financially efficient but it could eliminate jobs and cause a lot of heartbreak and potential lawsuits from freaked out employees. Just think how that would affect contracts for leased space, private contractors, etc. Cutting loose of independant contractors would be relatively easy but the rest would be extremely difficult and very expensive. It'd be like combining two families and trying to decide who is now husband one and who is husband two, and who the kids will now call Mama. By fiat.

[soonerfever]

"The Oklahoma State Constitution is somewhat vague on this matter. (At least what I have read). It states that counties must have a minimum population of 15,000 and taxable income of at least $2.5 million."

Are you sure that you read this right? minimum population of 15,000? Are you sure it isn't 1,500? Of our 77 counties, 32 of them have fewer than 15,000 as of the 2000 census. Several of them are less than 5,000. I'm sorry, I don't mean to doubt you, but this just doesn't compute for me.

Well this is what is says, as far as the creation of a county.

"Provided, That every such
question shall be submitted to the vote of the qualified electors
residing in the territory to be formed into such new county or
transferred to another county, and shall be approved by sixty per
centum of the votes cast in said election: Provided, That no new
county shall be formed of less than four hundred square miles
taxable area, nor with a population less than fifteen thousand
people, nor with taxable wealth less than two and one-half
million dollars, as shown by the current tax rolls."

I could be misunderstanding this though.

[BabyBoomerSooner]

Wasn't Warr Acres having problems paying for their police department a few months ago? I was thinking I had heard that the OC Sherriff was pretty much patroling the city.

I don't remember the Warr Acres problem, but I do remember the recent fuss at Jones where the town trustees were considering disbanding the police department after their cops tried to join the Spencer-Nicoma Park FOP.

[soonerfever]

So if a smaller municipality, let's say Bethany decides to go with a countywide government system, are they still a municipality? Or by doing so does OKC incorporate them as OKC proper? Do they still function as a city, just have much less key employees for the actual city?

I think is this situation OK county would ask for OKC to just annex Bethany since they connect to each other. However if a city like Mustang was to do this that might be a different story. This is just a uneducated guess on both senarios.

[soonerfever]

I don't remember the Warr Acres problem, but I do remember the recent fuss at Jones where the town trustees were considering disbanding the police department after their cops tried to join the Spencer-Nicoma Park FOP.

I very well could be wrong about the Warr Acres situation. I was just thinking that something was going on with the police department. Seems like I remember the news saying the OKCPD or OC Sherriffs Dept. were going to be patroling the city.

[kevinpate]

soonerfever, the quoted provision has to do with the formation of any new counties, not with a minimum population of any counties already existing. As noted elsewhere above, many counties do not have 15000 peeps and of those, many are not looking to expand to a level where they would