Blazers bigger than CHL

[bbarnett]

I read today that the CHL is expanding to Rapid City, South Dakota this next year. South Dakota is a fine hockey state but I also read that the CHL is now looking to expand to Independence, MO and Allen, Texas.

Last time I looked, OKC has one of the best attendance records in minor league hockey as well as a 40 year plus successful history. I don't know about you all, but I think it is time to look to join a better league. The CHL seems to be getting very watered down. I think OKC deserves to be in a more prestigious league (like the CHL used to be). I don't feel like staying in a league that is letting any small town with a population of 50,000 people or more join the CHL.

Your thoughts?

Brian Barnett

[betts]

Couldn't agree more. But didn't Bob Funk not want to join the next league up? Didn't he have an option to do that in the past? I think it's embarrassing that a city of our size is playing teams like Shreveport.

[Millie]

I think it's embarrassing that a city of our size is playing teams like Shreveport.

I don't think we can use the word "embarrassing" after the way they played last season. The team as it is currently comprised just wouldn't cut it in a better/bigger league.

If the point is that you want an NHL team, I don't think we've got the fan base here to support such a venture. Yes, the Blazers have the CHL attendance record, but a lot of those seats were either free or steeply discounted from an already very low (even for CHL standards) ticket price. NHL seats go for $40 on up for decent seats in most places and I just don't think the market here would support that. Blazers ticket prices are going up for next year (possibly related to the advent of the players union?) and people are already complaining/thinking about not renewing season tickets/etc.

[LIL_WAYNE_4_PREZIDENT08]

OKC almost got the penguins

I think they can handle a NHL team but whats the next league up from the CHL?

[Dave Cook]

"I think they can handle a NHL team but whats the next league up from the CHL?"

Technically speaking, the next 'level up' would be the ECHL. Although both are considered AA, the ECHL is the preferred league for players looking to move to the AAA. The CHL hasn't had as much appeal to the players at this level.

The AAA level would be the AHL, a merged version of the AHL/IHL.

"I think OKC deserves to be in a more prestigious league (like the CHL used to be)."

While we all probably agree that a higher calibre of hockey would be a welcome addition to the city, you need to remember that pro hockey has changed from the days of Oklahoma City and Tulsa fans having fist fights at the old Fairgrounds Arena while Terry Crisp and Brian Bradley were killing off penalties.

The CPHL had AAA teams in Dallas, Fort Worth, Tulsa, Albuquerque, Kansas City, Memphis, etc. Rivalries and road trips were easy to come by.

I'm not sure you can replicate that kind of vibe when you're playing teams like Providence, Grand Rapids, and Manitoba. And our closest road trip would be San Antonio. Fun.

Oh, and we didn't 'almost' get the Penguins. Not even close.

[venture]

ECHL, which is what I grew up with in Ohio...appears to be getting an odd number of teams once the Toledo franchise is going again (formly the Toledo Storm, stopped playing to build a new arena), and the 3 expansion teams are done.

ECHL - Premier 'AA' Hockey League

The biggest draw back, is that ECHL has nothing in the region. You are talking either east coast, Great Lakes, or West Coast.

The AHL: theahl.com - The Official Web Site of the American Hockey League: Teams

Only Houston and San Antonio like previously mentioned.

NHL? Not going to happen.

I would say ECHL would be nice, but OKC would be on an island in the middle of no where.

[El Gato Pollo Loco!!!]

I think it would help the Blazers if they just get an affiliation with an NHL club.

[NativeOkie]

I agree with moving up.
The answer is to affiliate with an NHL team ie. the Stars or the Avalanche.
Who cares about if you play Tulsa or not.

[Dave Cook]

I guess in the grand scheme of things Tulsa doesn't really matter, but we've had an off-and-on again rivalry with the Oilers going back to 1933.

While I share the same desire for a higher calibre of hockey, I don't think we need to wrag the fine folks in Shreveport.

Yeah, why should we waste our time with 'small time' towns like Tulsa, Fort Worth, Austin and Albuquerque when we could be in the 'big time' with towns like Peoria, Des Moines, Winnipeg, Syracuse, Binghampton and, of course, Rockford, Illinois.

Some population data.....

Shreveport 375,000
Tulsa 905,000
Fort Worth 653,000
Albuquerque 841,000
Laredo metro area 737,000

Peoria metro area 369,000
Winnipeg 633,000
Des Moines 546,600
Binghamton 252,000
Syracuse metro 732,000
Rockford 339,000

[Blairman]

BBarnett/betts

Deserve to be in a better bigger league ? Where does that come from ??

Cough Cough, have you looked at some of the towns the the Redhawks play, Round Rock, where in the heck is Round Rock

I think SweetNSourPoke answers part of your question, the rest I will mark up to little knowledge of the"lay of the land" in hockey sense.

THe CHL does not place teams (accept franchises) based on city population, you have to look at the area within 45 min drive.

ECHL is not the answer to moving up question, its only a slight jump "if", the downsides of travel cost would drag on any advanatage

Regarding hockey in Oklahoma and the midwest, the "heavey-hand" is economics.

I would say in 5 years you MAY see Oklahoma City move to a different league, but I would not bet my house on it.

I wonder what people in LA and NYC are saying about OKC being in the NBA, wonder if they are saying its embarashing?. I guess it depend on the big pond.small fish--big fish.small pond syndrome

[jbrown84]

Round Rock is a suburb of Austin. It's not some podunk town in West Texas...

[bbarnett]

Blairman:
I am mainly referring to the 1960s and 1970s when the Blazers were a farm team affiliated with NHL teams such as the Boston Bruins, Toronto Maple Leafs, and Minnesota North Stars. Our players went straight to the NHL directly from the Blazers. That is the caliber I believe the Blazers should be. Where were you during those days?

I don't much appreciate your condescending comments.

[Dave Cook]

We need to look at this in terms of geography.

Whenever minor hockey leagues have attempted to 'outgrow' their region, they have ALWAYS failed.

Look at the IHL when it left Kalamazoo and Fort Wayne for Orlando and Phoenix. It happened in the old CHL when they spread out to Salt Lake City and Seattle.

The AHL now is overgrowing itself and will eventually fail, I predict.

Until the AAA level leagues relocate to the OKC/Tulsa/Houston/Memphis regions, I don't see it happening.

[bbarnett]

I think those are good points regarding geography and past expansions of the AHL and CHL. I think that is one of the reasons the CHL has become so '"diluted".

[Laramie]

It's time for Oklahoma City to move up to AAA and join Houston, Des Moines and San Antonio in the AHL.

Tulsa is already inquiring about a possible move to the AHL with the opening of the BOK Center.

I guess we will have to wait on Tulsa to get an AHL team before Bob Funk decides to make his move.

[NativeOkie]

Bob is in a FUNK

[y_h]

The CHL has become a bloated, diluted product with what appears to be a handful of franchises using a revolving door to come in and out of the league as finances dictate. Overexpansion killed the original CHL and it's starting to wear this model pretty thin as well.

What made the first couple of years of CHL II so enjoyable was the small size of the league and relative roster stability - it was not hard to know every player on every team in the league. Rivalries were intense based on stability and repetition of opponents. I think the Blazer ownership was wise not to jump to the IHL when they had the chance to get the KC Blades several years back. I'm not a fan of the high minors - lots of player turnover, especially on teams loaded with prospects. The team you ice at the start of a season may look drastically different at the end.

I don't think it's a knock against OKC to have a successful low-minor program so long as the games are competitive and entertaining. Saturday night games vs Tulsa used to draw nearly 13,000 to the Myriad in the Blazers' first couple of seasons back (92,93). I don't think too many folks in the rink felt bad that they weren't attending an IHL contest.

What I would love to see is for the Blazers, Oilers, Thunder, Riverkings and the Independence (KC) franchise pull out of the CHL and form a new league. I'd then add a 6th franchise at the arena in St. Charles (western STL suburb) and call it done. Every franchise has at least a couple of close, regional rivals (OKC-TUL, TUL-WIC, WIC-KC, KC-STL, STL-MEM/MIS), travel costs are more easily managed, and you develop that familiarity which made the early years of CHL II so much fun.

Don't get hung up on what "level" the team plays at. Focus on whether the league in which your team plays offers a consistently meaningful, entertaining and competitive experience.

[Blairman]

Tulsa is already inquiring about a possible move to the AHL with the opening of the BOK Center..

Laramie, why do you keep bringing up Tulsa and the AHL ?

Whoever your source is the farthest from the truth, the BOK center will have Tulsa struggling $$ wise

Since you are a sports elitist, just stick with the NBA Blunder

[El Gato Pollo Loco!!!]

...Don't get hung up on what "level" the team plays at. Focus on whether the league in which your team plays offers a consistently meaningful, entertaining and competitive experience.

Now that's something I can agree with.

[Laramie]

Laramie, why do you keep bringing up Tulsa and the AHL ?

Whoever your source is the farthest from the truth, the BOK center will have Tulsa struggling $$ wise

Since you are a sports elitist, just stick with the NBA Blunder

I'll take your advice!

[BigTulsa]

Laramie, why do you keep bringing up Tulsa and the AHL ?

Whoever your source is the farthest from the truth, the BOK center will have Tulsa struggling $$ wise

Since you are a sports elitist, just stick with the NBA Blunder

OK, so tell us who YOUR source is about Tulsa struggling money wise with the BOK?

Tulsa will actually make out better because the suites give them guaranteed revenue, something they did not have with the Convention Center. Even with the higher rent.

And yes, there has been talk of moving up for Tulsa. Hell, even Bob Funk pitched Pittsburgh our way when they were struggling.

Word is this: opening night this Saturday will be close to a sellout (17000).

What was the last sellout the Blazers saw. Last numbers I saw for them in attendance was about 6000.

[dalelakin]

OK, so tell us who YOUR source is about Tulsa struggling money wise with the BOK?

Tulsa will actually make out better because the suites give them guaranteed revenue, something they did not have with the Convention Center. Even with the higher rent.

And yes, there has been talk of moving up for Tulsa. Hell, even Bob Funk pitched Pittsburgh our way when they were struggling.

Word is this: opening night this Saturday will be close to a sellout (17000).

What was the last sellout the Blazers saw. Last numbers I saw for them in attendance was about 6000.

Blazers still handed you a mark in the "L" column last Friday night though...

[okcpulse]

OK, so tell us who YOUR source is about Tulsa struggling money wise with the BOK?

Tulsa will actually make out better because the suites give them guaranteed revenue, something they did not have with the Convention Center. Even with the higher rent.

And yes, there has been talk of moving up for Tulsa. Hell, even Bob Funk pitched Pittsburgh our way when they were struggling.

Word is this: opening night this Saturday will be close to a sellout (17000).

What was the last sellout the Blazers saw. Last numbers I saw for them in attendance was about 6000.

Tulsa may sellout a few games, but don't be bragging about sellouts to Oklahoma City, sir. Oklahoma City still holds the league record in attendance and attendance averages. Ford Center in 06 or 07 saw another 17,000+ crowd.

Good to see Tulsa getting such a crowd for the Greasers... err... Oilers. But don't count on Oilers sellouts being a regular.

Go Blazers!!! A move up to AAA hockey? I'm in

[bombermwc]

Well one thing I would say is, I'd be much more ready to say move up if we were actually winning the title. Right now we have teams from smaller cities, but it's not like we dont lose games all the time. Don't you think we should be able to take the big prize home every year if we think we're ready to move up into a new league?

[okcpulse]

A team's winning success is not relative to 'moving up' as much as market size. In any case, the Blazers just can't simply 'move up'.

The current franchise would have to be disbanded, and the AHL would either have to grant us an expansion or relocation franchise. It isn't likely the personnel would 'move up' either. Whole new team, whole new staff. the only thing Oklahoma City can do is retain the team name, logo and history and apply it to a new AHL team.