Illegal Sign Pickup/Sweep Task Force

[metro]

I know we have talked about this topic before on a similar note. Those illegal, pesky signs that dot our roadways more and more each day along the public right of ways and medians. Political signs, or those advertising cheap tacky businesses have no place in our growing city. These are illegal and violate several city ordinances.

Would anyone be willing to help create or volunteer a task force and we can all do a sweep sometimes at assigned areas and clean these up? I know the city would be on board with this as well as OKC Beautiful. Please respond if you'd be interested in helping.

[TheImmortal]

I would defiantly be interested inhelping if we can get a big enough group on board. Anything to improve the quality of our beautiful city

[Keith]

I know we have talked about this topic before on a similar note. Those illegal, pesky signs that dot our roadways more and more each day along the public right of ways and medians. Political signs, or those advertising cheap tacky businesses have no place in our growing city. These are illegal and violate several city ordinances.

Would anyone be willing to help create or volunteer a task force and we can all do a sweep sometimes at assigned areas and clean these up? I know the city would be on board with this as well as OKC Beautiful. Please respond if you'd be interested in helping.

I'm with you, metro. Count me in. I am also getting tired of seeing all of the illegal signs on the city right-of-way. As a matter of fact, I saw a city inspector one morning tearing down "garage sale" signs and other signs that were posted in the city right-of-way.

It's kind of funny watching these people putting these signs out.....they look around to see if anybody is watching, mainly because they know what they are doing is illegal. Then they put the sign up and actually run back to their vehicles.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Thanks for posting this Metro. My suggestion is to work in teams of three out of a pickup and start about 1:00 AM on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday morning. The streets would be relatively clear that time of day and a lot safer and easier to clean up. An intersection could be easily cleaned up in a couple of minutes by the two foot soldiers, who pile the nasty signs in the back of the pickup, jump in the cab and head off to the next intersection. I think that four teams could almost cover the City by 6:00 AM when we could meet for breakfast and photos of the booty.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to advise the Police in advance?

[Karried]

I was wondering the same thing ODG... what if a business owner became upset? I know quite a few corner strip malls who put their own little cardboards signs out in front of their stores ... can you imagine.. a restaurant owner with a meat cleaver chasing after us all?

LOL, metro, you go first, check it out and clear the way - just kidding, I would love to help.

[Karried]

Wait, did you say 1:00am??

[The Old Downtown Guy]

I was wondering the same thing ODG... what if a business owner became upset? I know quite a few corner strip malls who put their own little cardboards signs out in front of their stores ... can you imagine.. a restaurant owner with a meat cleaver chasing after us all?

LOL, metro, you go first, check it out and clear the way - just kidding, I would love to help.

Only signs in the Public-Right-Of-Way would be removed. It is very easy to tell illegally placed signs from legitimate ones. It doesn't matter if it is in front of your own business, if it is in the Public-Right-Of-Way, it is illegal. But there is very little of that kind of problem. Most of the problem is at intersections.

Wait, did you say 1:00am??

Much earlier than that and traffic could be a real problem and we might get hasseled by the Police for dashing across streets and being stopped near an intersection and backing up traffic. Most of these signs are put out the middle of the night and IMO, that would be the best time to remove them as well. Sleep is over-rated anyhow.

Also, I have a few friends that I might be able to get interested in a vigilante art project like this. If we can get about a half dozen or so folks from OKCTalk, I think I could get about four others to join in.

[John]

I've advised our campaign team not to litter.

[metro]

Yes, and political season is upon us and they are already getting nasty. When I ran for office, I didn't use those tacky little illegal signs, of all people a lawmaker/politician should know better. Anyhow yes most people consider those pesky signs in front of their own business okay although most of the time it is still public right of way or city easements as well as those type of signs are still illegal anyways no matter where they are. Let's get this task force going, like someone said I advise about 3 per pickup truck. I'll talk to the city and others and address any concerns and get back with all interested parties. Let's do this.

[Oki_Man5]

Count me out! I like those little signs.

Just to be sure what you will be picking up, will it be only the small campaign-like signs that are on ROWs, or will it be all advertising including those benches with advertising on them that sit on the ROWs, and how about those realtor signs that happen to be sitting on ROW?

Oh, over on 36th, I saw a sign that advertises a meeting of the residents of the area---Go get it! LOL

This seems to be a thread where it is just a sight nuisance you want to eradicate, but it would seem that public safety being a factor, while you are at it, you might pull some of the trees that have been planted too close to the road and block the view of motorists as they try to come out onto a busy street.

[writerranger]

I am out-of-town and have been busy, but I HAD to take a second to respond to this.....I hate the commercial advertising for private business. However, the political signs are a sign of a thriving democracy and we shouldn't be bitching about "littering." In fact, while I disagree with the war in Iraq, we have troops dying everyday to help bring some semblance of democracy to that country. There are countries that would give ANYTHING to be able to stick a political campaign sign in the street. Are they pretty? No. Does that matter? Only if we are so comfortably encased in our day-to-day existence in OKC, Middle America, USA that we forget what those signs represent. They say there is a grassroots effort to elect a candidate who may, or may not support the status quo - some radically different than how I, you, and most of our neighbors might believe. They are symbols of defiance to the millions of dollars poured and "littered" into our living rooms by entrenched political power. To worry about the "littering" aspect of this is, to me, not stopping to think about the larger symbolism of an active democracy that they represent. The laws regarding this are loosely enforced - as they SHOULD BE. After the election, they get tough on the fines - that's good. Of all the things this group could get together to do, the good this forum could do, organizing into after-dark anti-political sign vigilantes should be FAR down the list, in my opinion.

Democracy requires tolerance for old American traditions that speak a very real truth about who we are as a people. Yes, it would be nice if they were just in front yards, but since the days of the American revolution, posting political bills on poles and signs in the roadways have been a part of the political landscape that says, "VOTE FOR ME, for my IDEA," but they should be a reminder that we have a CHOICE, that democracy is alive - and well - in America. And that includes corners like NW 63rd and May Avenue in Oklahoma City, USA.

I would urge those who see this as such an awful thing to look around the world, think of the context of what those signs represent and rethink your position.

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[metro]

I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion. I understand and can respect your opinions on the campaign signs. Our main concern is the private business signs you mentioned, such as Mattresses $99 or Lawn Mowing, etc. Stuff like that. I was just saying in addition to the thousands of these private business signs in medians and PRW, campaign signs will be dotting them as well making it even more unsightly. You definitely don't see this problem anywhere else more than here. Definitely not Seattle, Austin, Portland, etc. If we're going to start competing with cities like this, we got to work on our beautification.

[Oki_Man5]

Good try at discrediting our thoughts (assuming you mean whiterranger and me.), but I think it is Metro who has blown the perceived problem way out of proportion. Do you by chance have a sign shop and expect to sell more signs if the ones that are posted are taken?

[metro]

No. I work for a non-profit. And don't you think if a "customer" of a sign shop got tired of people pulling their signs up that they would quit buying them rather than buying more?? Sounds like it may be the other way around, do you own a sign shop and are worried about losing business? This is a problem that the city council is even starting to address as a major problem.

Anyhow back to topic. My thread was to see who IS up to the task of possibly removing these? Who's in?

ODG? Keith? Immortal?

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Thanks Metro, I'm available. Once a date and time is set, I will try to enlist the help of a few friends.

As far as the over-the-top posts about the destruction of democracy as we know it; jeeze guys, lighten up. It's this simple; placing any sign in the public right of way or on a utility pole is prohibited by OKC City Ordinances. There is a democratic process of establishing and enforcing laws. Our country is founded on it. How can you possibly object to people suggesting that laws prohibinting sign litter should be enforced and then taking a proactive approach to the enforcement?

I have removed hundreds of these trashy signs over many years and I am aware of dozens of other people around OKC that have done the same. Our City Council has made some effort to clean this mess up, but they never get it completely done. Perhaps a few citizens can make the difference.

BTW, there is a saying in political campaigning:
"Signs in yards vote; signs at intersections don't."
I don't like to see all those political signs either, but I don't ever pull them up unless I have worked for the campaign and am out cleaning up after the election. Every campaign I have ever worked on doesn't want to just wholesale put signs on the roadside, but there is usually one candidate that aparently thinks they can get a few votes that way and then there goes the neighborhood and every other candidate starts doing the same thing.

[writerranger]

As far as the over-the-top posts about the destruction of democracy as we know it; jeeze guys, lighten up. It's this simple; placing any sign in the public right of way or on a utility pole is prohibited by OKC City Ordinances.

ODG, Nothing personal, but I am a bit offended that you referred to my post and my feelings regarding the political signs as, "over the top posts about the destruction of democracy," and asking me to lighten up.

Was my post too "quaint" and "apple pie" for you? I meant it. With all my heart I meant it.

I think, frankly, the over-the-top posts are those who are all broken up over campaign signs and calling it, "littering" and bragging they don't use them in THEIR campaigns. To me, it's an insult to those who have died to give us the freedom to put those damn signs up. As for, "It's this simple; placing any sign in the public right of way or on a utility pole is prohibited by OKC City Ordinances," all I can say is that I am perplexed at this uniquely Midwestern concern over this as a "problem." Have you ever been to Chicago, NYC, Philly during a campaign season? Signs EVERYWHERE. One man's "ugly" is another man's symbol of freedom to fight for every vote and idea.

As for the ordinance....this has been fought in other states and truth be told, those ordinances concerning this type of thing aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The constitution of the United States trumps an OKC city ordinance. The one case from another state that almost went all the way to SCOTUS was a clear statement from the court that public right of ways, poles, etc. were owned by the people of the community and could be used in the free exercise of the democratic process. Unanimously, the Supreme Court refused to hear the case which upheld the lower court decision.

Again, nothing personal, but those who feel as strongly as you do about the "litter" of campaign signs can shove that ordinance where the sunshine of free political expression doesn't shine. And no, that's not up the *ss, but North Korea, China, Zimbabwe, Cuba on and on.

"Jeeze guys, lighten up," is my advice back to you. To me, it's petty as hell to worry about "beautification" and a little inconvenience at election time over what those signs represent. To me, THAT'S what is "over-the-top" and it shows how some take too many things in this great country for granted.

Still to cheesy? Sorry - it's the g&dda*mn truth.

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[The Old Downtown Guy]

As for the ordinance....this has been fought in other states and truth be told, those ordinances concerning this type of thing aren't worth the paper they are printed on. The constitution of the United States trumps an OKC city ordinance.

Thanks writerranger, I would appreciate seeing some documentation on that, or at least some links to where that information can be looked at.

As for the other points you were trying to make in your post, let's just agree to disagree. OK?

[writerranger]

ODG,

I'm sorry my message was so harsh. I am not feeling well today. I should learn when I feel this way to stay away from any forum. I'm in Houston getting my 92 year-old aunt moved to a nursing home in Oklahoma City and my brain is fried. I came here to the forum to take a break relax and instead (I just read my last post again) I was just plain mean. It's no real excuse because I didn't have to sign-on, but it's just a tough time right now. I have that information back in Oklahoma City in hard-copy form, I'll scan the documents when I get back and send them to you. Again, I'm really sorry.

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[metro]

Our main concern is the private business signs you mentioned, such as Mattresses $99 or Lawn Mowing, etc. Stuff like that.

Is it just me or does writeranger keep missing this part of our post!! We're not talking so much about the political signs as we are the private business signs in the public ROW.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

I think we have discussed this long enough to attract all those that are interested in going forward Metro. Perhaps a poll with four to six suggested days/times might be a way to proceed. I have already suggested mid-week in the wee hours, but of course there are other options; your call.

[metro]

I agree ODG. The interested parties have spoken, everyone else just wants to chime in their two cents. My purpose was to see who IS interested. Let's wait another day for anyone who was tied up with this weekends Jazz or Film festival to have a chance, and then we'll move this project forward.

[Oki_Man5]

I tried to help by telling you I am not interested; I figured you would want to know who was not interested as well as those who are interested.

[writerranger]

I am back in Oklahoma City tonight. Metro, Did you see my post of apology? Have you any empathy?

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[writerranger]

Is it just me or does writeranger keep missing this part of our post!! We're not talking so much about the political signs as we are the private business signs in the public ROW.

I agree with ODG that you just need to move forward with what you want to do. But I wasn't going to let this slip by. May I quote your own post BEFORE I posted my views?

Yes, and political season is upon us and they are already getting nasty. When I ran for office, I didn't use those tacky little illegal signs, of all people a lawmaker/politician should know better. Anyhow yes most people consider those pesky signs in front of their own business okay although most of the time it is still public right of way or city easements as well as those type of signs are still illegal anyways no matter where they are.

Later, Metro writes:

We're not talking so much about the political signs as we are the private business signs in the public ROW.

But I am somehow misinterpreting you?

As I said, I responded harshly to Old Downtown Guy (who I have grown to respect very much) and apologized. But since you had to go on and post the misinformation above - I thought I would correct the record. Those "missing the point" posts were only in response to what YOU wrote in your own words. You only changed your tune later.

Of all the good you could be doing....and you're organizing for this? My opinion is that's odd....but go for it! You have as much right to support it as I do to oppose it. Just remember as you pull up those political signs the MILLIONS in China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. who would dearly love to put a sign in the street and violate a silly "city ordinance" in the name of free political expression.

[The Old Downtown Guy]

Of all the good you could be doing....and you're organizing for this? My opinion is that's odd....but go for it! You have as much right to support it as I do to oppose it. Just remember as you pull up those political signs the MILLIONS in China, North Korea, Cuba, etc. who would dearly love to put a sign in the street and violate a silly "city ordinance" in the name of free political expression.

It appears that all communication is open to interpretation. I don't think I mentioned political signs except in the post-election context, and I thought that metro was saying that he didn't approve of them either, but that they were not the target of our project. So in the interest of clarity; the signs that I will be removing during this little outing are the commercial advertising plastic and paper ones about 18" wide and 12" high attached to a metal wire frame or wood stake that are placed near the street and particularly in clusters around intersections that advertise health insurance, Christian singles groups, lawn mowing and all manner of other products and services. I will also remove cardboard boxes and other make-shift signs advertising garage sales, free pets, etc.

Regarding political signs; they are just as illegal when placed in the public r-o-w as any other sign and I don’t like seeing them there. I think their use along streets is a waste of campaign money and they should only be placed in legal locations on private property. Unfortunately, that is not the common practice in Oklahoma City. Hopefully, our effort may bring a little extra attention to this issue of public appearance and more discussion can be had by the political community. I will mention it to the candidates that I support and perhaps at some point in the future, candidates will begin to make public statements early in their campaigns regarding their policy about these signs and progress can be made toward eliminating their improper placement.

writerranger, I have very strong and long considered views about freedom of expression around the world, including the US and look forward to discussing them on this forum in the future, I just don't see this thread as being the place and time IMO.