Amtrak may offer OKC to KC rail service

[Pete]

Kan. to mull rail service extension to OKC

TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - Kansas transportation officials have asked Amtrak to study the possible expansion of rail service from Kansas City to Oklahoma City.

The rail line will look at connecting two existing routes - one that runs from Kansas City to Newton, Kan., the other from Fort Worth, Texas, to Oklahoma City. The study will consider scheduling, the availability of locomotives and cars and whether rail improvements are needed.

The study would be paid for by the Kansas Department of Transportation at a cost of $150,000 to $200,000. It would begin this summer and be completed in the fall of 2009.

KDOT said in a news release Thursday that Arkansas City, Strong City, Lawrence, Winfield and Emporia have expressed interest in the expansion.

[FritterGirl]

This would be very exciting.

[Pete]

That would be a fun weekend trip, wouldn't it? Take the train up to KC and hang out on the Plaza.

Hopefully people from Kansas & Missouri would come the other direction, too -- especially to see some NBA action.

[FritterGirl]

That would be a fun weekend trip, wouldn't it? Take the train up to KC and hang out on the Plaza.

Hopefully people from Kansas & Missouri would come the other direction, too -- especially to see some NBA action.

I'd LOVE to head up to KC. Wonder if the trip is any faster than the drive, which at 5 hours, isn't terrible. I lived in Europe many years ago, and so miss travelling by train. Over there, it is really the best - and most economical - way to go. Plus, it's very relaxing.

And - I agree about it attracting more visitors from Kansas and Missouri. Those tracks to go both ways, afterall.

[Millie]

Is it really economical? What do you do, when you get off the train? I've lived in several east coast cities and I loved taking the train from DC to Boston or NY, but those places have great public transportation systems. I've lived in Kansas City and they don't- at least nothing savory and nothing I would want to use as a tourist. Kansas City and Fort Worth are both so spread out that I can't imagine that it would be economical to go there for a weekend on the train- fare for two people (or more), rental car/cabs, all the time it takes (Heartland Flyer's schedule looks a lot slower than the drive- assume that the KC train would be similar)...

Don't get me wrong- I miss train travel too, and would probably do this at least once just for the experience, but... is it a sustainable form of tourism?

[OUman]

^This would be a good option for those not wanting the longer drive to KC if they either used faster trains (and called it the Great Plains Express-yeah I made that one up lol) or if they kept the number of stops to a minimum four or five, instead of the 6 or 7 we have now.

It's not so much about tourism as a mode of transportation, but you have to have better, faster trains. Especially for a country like the U.S. where distances are big.

[soonerguru]

Millie,

I can't speak much for KC but I went to Fort Worth recently on the Heartland Flyer and it was great. Sundance Square is anything but spread out and there is a lot to do -- and it's only like three or four blocks from the station. The other tourist areas: Stockyards and the Museum District are a quick bus or taxi ride from downtown. We went without a car and didn't miss it.

[soonerguru]

Also, Millie, the time to get there is not much of a factor. The ride is so comfortable: tons of leg room, clean, modern trains, walk to the dining car/bar car, very quiet and smooth. You can watch a movie, talk to friends, sleep in almost a full reclining position. There's no comparison to any other mode of travel. Plus, when you get to your destination you're not worn out like you are when you drive or have to deal with airports.

Not to mention, what do you do when you fly? You rent a car. Same if you take the train. I'm usually fine to take the bus or an occasional taxi.

With today's fuel prices it is MUCH MORE ECONOMICAL than driving.

[CCOKC]

I think the most encouraging part of this story is that the study is being paid by the Kansas DOT which tells me that there is interest in people coming this way from Kansas and Kansas City. Also, if this line comes to be, it connects us with more than KC but makes train travel to other parts of the country much more realistic. The Heartland Flyer only connects us to more southerly routes.

[Millie]

^I agree. I think it is great that Kansas sees benefit to making this happen.

[hipsterdoofus]

Isn't this a lot bigger than most on here are making it out to be? Its not just to KC - I think once you get to KC you can get to just about anywhere that amtrak goes. My wife and her family used to drive up to KC and then ride the train all the way to Connecticut - this sounds very cool!

[windowphobe]

My children (and their children) live in the Kansas City metro, so I'd love to see this come to fruition.

[Pete]

Its not just to KC - I think once you get to KC you can get to just about anywhere that amtrak goes.

True! The main line out of KC goes to St. Louis then on to Chicago.


As late as the early 70's, I know this line used to operate to OKC because I remember picking up my grandmother at the Santa Fe Depot, as she'd take the train down from Milwaukee.

It was really cool as a kid to go downtown and up into the train station... And I remember going on the train with her just to see the compartment and everything.

[kevinpate]

From KC you can reach Chicago (and danged near anywhere from there to the west, or east/ northeast, evne south to Nawlins.

From KC, or Newton if the extension goes there also or in addition, you can reach LA, or pop off in southern Co and get a transport into Denver and go into the NW, but then going to LA also lets you select an up the west coast run or across the deep sw run, all the way into Florida, where you can go south, or end up north and back to Chicago again.

A myriad of options once the route goes north from OKC into KS.

See the interactive route atlas by visiting amtrak.com and clocking routes then clicking load the route atlas.

happy trails, er, um, tracks to you

[Superhyper]

This would be amazing! I travel to KC all the time and this would finally save me from the atrociously boring drive.

[BailJumper]

What would the cost be per ticket?

I took the HF to Texas a couple of years ago and hated it. It took longer than by car and was more expensive than flying. I also didn't find the ride anything to get excited about.

Would be fine for older people, those who don't drive and hate to fly and for people who want to work while they travel.

If the cost was lower than other options and it was faster than a car, I'd be all for it.

[soonerguru]

Bailjumper,

The speed is fine. You must have ridden on a day in which there was a lot of freight traffic, to which HF must yield. Having ridden it several times, it usually runs close to on time. The freight traffic really picks up south of Gainesville when you're heading to FW. Not so bad on our side of the Red River.

[OUman]

What would the cost be per ticket?

I took the HF to Texas a couple of years ago and hated it. It took longer than by car and was more expensive than flying. I also didn't find the ride anything to get excited about.

Would be fine for older people, those who don't drive and hate to fly and for people who want to work while they travel.

If the cost was lower than other options and it was faster than a car, I'd be all for it.

I rode in the Heartland Flyer in December, the week of the ice storm-I was to fly abroad, connecting at DFW that weekend, and since there was a second system coming that weekend and I didn't want to get stuck at OKC, knowing how AA cancels flights. I was pretty impressed, lots of legroom, comfortable seats (although the "stuff" in the lighting covers didn't look too good) and only $22 one-way. I thought it was a steal for booking only a few days in advance! Only thing is at the Norman station there isn't a checked-baggage facility, so I was restricted to the two checked bags I had (I put my carry-on in one of them).

And I didn't see just older people, there were kids, a foreigner sitting across from me and several other younger people (if I had to make a guess ranging from the 10s to the 50s age-wise, besides older ones).

The best part about the ride was I had two seats all to myself since the load was pretty light. The worst part was I couldn't see for more than a couple miles for the entire trip because of dense fog everywhere. But I would definitely ride it again. And this coming from a guy who is an aviation freak...

I have to agree with you on the faster part though. Too many stops, and since it's speed restricted once it goes past Gainesville-the conductor actually anounced that himself-takes an hour just from there to Ft. Worth(!), that adds much more time then just the part from OK across the state line. If it were faster it would be a great option to Dallas-Ft. Worth. But like I said, I would definitely ride in it again.

[kevinpate]

Worrying about speed when it comes to trains is a bit like going to Wendy's and wondering why they don't have fine linens on the table. Not what they're known for and all that.

[OKCisOK4me]

and only $22 one-way. I thought it was a steal for booking only a few days in advance!

Because 2007 was our centennial year tickets were 1/2 price through the whole year. They are normally about $45 one-way.



It's still a good deal though. I wouldn't mind the spending that much time on the train. Not only does the HF have to yield to freight and our traffic being lighter above the Red River but you have to think of the time of the year in which you take it.

Grain season vastly increases the traffic southbound as it is BNSF's main route to the Gulf of Mexico. So during that time of year...it could be pretty slow for HF.

[Doug Loudenback]

The idea of having a Kansas northbound link from Okc has been floated both by Oklahoma and Kansas before ... some preferred the Okc route to go north via Tulsa ... and whichever way it may go it's all very romantic, to be sure.

I've only taken the Heartland Flyer to Ft. Worth once, 2 or 3 years ago. It was with a group for a "retreat" type meeting at Ft. Worth ... we spent our 2 nights at a very fine Bed and Breakfast just south of downtown called the Texas White House ... and I surely do recommend it ... and, when not "working," we went downtown and had a fantastic experience. Many people once analogized that OKC & Ft. Worth were similar ... and there's some truth to that, I think. Even today. Both have downtowns that have become exciting, even though, of course, I like mine the best.

Anyway, I can kick myself for not taking more than this one trip on the Heartland Flyer ... it was fine (even though the train has to slow down once reaching the Texas border since Texas hasn't upgraded the track south of the Red River ... the speed can be 79 mph in Oklahoma, but can only be 59 mph in Texas)!

But, in the end, a northbound route, as did the southbound route, comes down to economics. Kansas AND Oklahoma would have to foot a good part of the bill, just like Oklahoma and Texas do for the Heartland Flyer. I do hope that that happens, but, as I said, the idea has been floated before. It is not at all "new."

My brother who lives in Odessa, Texas, is about to venture on a trip to wherever it is that the University of Michigan is located to visit his son who is a graduate student there. He has chosen a round-about-way to get there ... he is flying to Okc to visit me overnight, then catching the Heartland Flyer to Ft. Worth, then taking a sleeper train to Michigan. I can't remember what he said the cost was, but I'm virtually certain that the train cost was under $300. Speed isn't everything, and I'm looking forward to hearing his after-the-fact report. Sounds pretty cool to me.

If you like trains, you might like to start in he middle of my blog series on trains, here.

[soonerguru]

One thing that is true from this thread: we need a vastly improved rail transportation infrastructure in this country. It's amazing we don't have high-speed rail connecting all of our major cities, like they do throughout Europe and other parts of the planet. That most of Amtrak's track isn't even dedicated to passenger travel says a lot.

[onthestrip]

One thing that is true from this thread: we need a vastly improved rail transportation infrastructure in this country. It's amazing we don't have high-speed rail connecting all of our major cities, like they do throughout Europe and other parts of the planet. That most of Amtrak's track isn't even dedicated to passenger travel says a lot.

I agree, and with gas prices rising this may change a bit over time, and it should. Imagine being able to go to dallas in 2hrs, KC in 3 hrs or Denver in 5 hrs. Popularity in rail travel would increase immediately. Not to mention that traveling by train is much easier and way more comfortable than by plane.

[Superhyper]

Well, in defense of the US(although I agree with the above points) we don't have the relatively short distances between major cities and population densities that Europe has which helps makes rail travel economical. At the same time, density is increasing and rising fuel costs are making mass trail transit more and more practical every day. I think the state and local governments here in the heartland are realizing that we need this kind of economic linkage to keep us competitive, so you'll probably see more of these kind of initiatives in the future. Their long-term success, however, depends on people like us actually using it. Here's hoping!

[CCOKC]

I think we have to change the mindset of people in this country (especially west of the Mississippi) about public transport period. This is somewhat a Catch 22 situation. If more people use the train, bus etc their would be more options but there needs to be more, better, faster, etc options before people use it. When I had an exchange student from Thailand I got to meet youngsters from all over the world who all complained about our public transportation. These kids were not allowed to drive as a foreign exchange student and had to rely upon the kindness of friends and their host families to get anywhere. I especially felt for the kids who lived in smaller towns in Oklahoma who were basically trapped in their adopted home towns. Most of the kids were from small towns themselves and were used to hopping on the train to get to the nearest big city. It is just a matter of priorities because as a rule public transportation does not substain itself and must be subsidized by a government of some sort.