Living wage and/or minimum wage

[OkieBerto]

Since it seems to be an issue on the Braum's Thread I started this one.

[fortpatches]

Some interesting stats I was looking up based on that thread:

Fast Food and Counter Workers (bls.gov)

Mean hr wage (US): $14.48
Median hr wage (US): $14.20

Mean hr wage (OK): $11.64
Median hr wage (OK): $11.05

For OK:

Occupation code	Occupation title (click on the occupation title to view its profile)	Level	Employment	Employment RSE	Employment per 1,000 jobs	Location quotient	Median hourly wage	Mean hourly wage	Annual mean wage	Mean wage RSE

35-3023

Fast Food and Counter Workers

detail

46,750

3.8%

28.091

1.16

$11.05

$11.64

$24,220

0.9%

[OkieBerto]

^^^^ Thanks for the info!

[OkieBerto]

My first job was as a Fast Food worker at Hardees a few blocks from my house. The minimum wage was $4.25 when I started, but was raised in 1996 to $4.75. My starting wage at the time was $5.00 an hour. It was part time and I could walk to work if I had to. Gas was at .63 cents a gallon. Most meals at Hardees were less than an hours wage. It was a hard job for a first job.

Today gas is usually $3 a gallon or above. Fast Food meals can now exceed $10. Minimum wage at $7.25 would not even cover a meal at most fast food restaurants.

[citywokchinesefood]

A living wage is the amount of money you need to make to cover the basics and have a decent life. This means paying for things like rent, food, healthcare, and transportation without struggling. It's higher than the current minimum wage in almost every metro area in the US, which might not be enough to meet these needs. A living wage helps ensure you’re not just scraping by but can actually afford the essentials and have a bit of security. The exact amount varies depending on where you live and your personal situation. As a society we all benefit from the joint success of our cities, states, and country. Capitalism has given us the economic engine to create the incredible wealth of opportunity we have today. If we enfranchise more people to be bought into the benefits of the system we will only continue to grow. The cold war was largely won through this concept.

[Ginkasa]

I'll be honest and say that I don't have the insight to very confidently state what the minimum wage should be or what a living wage is in dollars.

But I will say that the people looking their nose down at anyone making less than $50k or presuming that people are working stressful, thankless jobs at fast food or similar in order to have an easy road to living like a movie star are absolutely despicable and completely ignorant. Shame on you if you're someone who thinks that way.

I make well over $50k and I'll tell you this is the easiest job I've ever had. I work an easy 40 hours, honestly less actually being productive if we're being honest. I have flexibility to use my time how I want, take off days as needed. I'm sitting here posting on a message board at work. Easy.

I worked those minimum wage jobs and those were hard, I'll tell you what. I was running around, working up a sweat. I had to strategize and plan my time and be efficient because I was expected to a lot in relatively little time. My 8+ hour days were full, and emphasis on the +. I had one half hour break to sit down and catch my breath and I was right back at it. I had customers condescending to me, yelling at me for things beyond my control. Managers pushing for more than is reasonable and stretching or breaking the limits of the law. Grabbing extra shifts to eke out a few more dollars to pay the bills. That was hard.

I'll tell you this, too. I make well over $50k and I'm just this side of struggling. I'm not living that movie star life style. I've got a single 10 year old car with manual transmission and roll up windows. Paid off. I've got a 1200 sq ft house, so nothing to write home about. I'm not eating out every night or at the fanciest restaurants. I've cancelled all my streaming services. Stuff's expensive. Life is hard. And I've got that easy desk job. I'm making 3x what someone making $15 an hour is making and I'm working much less hard than they are. You bet I'm all for raising that minimum wage and making those folks having to work fast food and get sneered at like the folks in the other thread lives a little easier. If a business can't afford to provide their essential workers a living wage while CEOs who work even less than I do are actually living that movie star lifestyle than that business doesn't deserve to exist.

[fortpatches]

My first job was as a Fast Food worker at Hardees a few blocks from my house. The minimum wage was $4.25 when I started, but was raised in 1996 to $4.75. My starting wage at the time was $5.00 an hour. It was part time and I could walk to work if I had to. Gas was at .63 cents a gallon. Most meals at Hardees were less than an hours wage. It was a hard job for a first job.

Today gas is usually $3 a gallon or above. Fast Food meals can now exceed $10. Minimum wage at $7.25 would not even cover a meal at most fast food restaurants.

My first job was as a busboy at a fancier restaurant. So, two weeks of 6hr days my check was around $200. But I got whatever the waitresses said was 20% of the tips they received. I made enough to buy a calculator for school.

The closest thing to fast-food I worked was Subway. I was like 17 and was given keys to a few stores. They would have me close two locations a night. In one summer, we went through three managers at one store. That was for like $5.15/hr.

[OkieBerto]

I make well over $50k and I'll tell you this is the easiest job I've ever had. I work an easy 40 hours, honestly less actually being productive if we're being honest. I have flexibility to use my time how I want, take off days as needed. I'm sitting here posting on a message board at work. Easy.

This is my life as well. I have a relaxing job that doesn't require much out of me. I have my own office with plenty of comfort and space. I live comfortable enough, but I still have to watch my spending. I would want at least what I have for anyone working a full time job.

[OkieBerto]

My first job was as a busboy at a fancier restaurant. So, two weeks of 6hr days my check was around $200. But I got whatever the waitresses said was 20% of the tips they received. I made enough to buy a calculator for school.

The closest thing to fast-food I worked was Subway. I was like 17 and was given keys to a few stores. They would have me close two locations a night. In one summer, we went through three managers at one store. That was for like $5.15/hr.

It is really crazy to believe they use to give someone that much responsibility and pay them so little money.

[Tyson]

I made over $10 worth of raises over the course of 3 years at Chick-fil-A in middle school/high school. I remember getting random messages from the payroll manager saying my pay was being increased because the cost of living was getting higher. I didn’t even have many bills since I didn’t move into my own apartment until I was independent at 18. I can’t imagine this is the case anywhere else.

[OkieBerto]

I made over $10 worth of raises over the course of 3 years at Chick-fil-A in middle school/high school. I remember getting random messages from the payroll manager saying my pay was being raised because the cost of living was getting higher. I didn’t even have many bills since I didn’t move into my own apartment until I was independent at 18. I can’t imagine this is the case anywhere else.

My Brother worked for Chick-Fil-A for 10 years. He worked for the same Franchisee at two different locations and also helped training at a few other locations. He was always getting raises and promotions.

[Tyson]

I make average income and after my roommate got married I can BARELY get by after rent and utilities. Average income does not mean average livability. I am a manager + HR and marketing for this company.

[Tyson]

But, with that, that’s a testament to the fact that the average single person does not require six figures to get by in this state. I know people who argue otherwise. Good discipline with budgeting and spending makes it possible.

[OkieBerto]

I make average income and after my roommate got married I can BARELY get by after rent and utilities. Average income does not mean average livability. I am a manager + HR and marketing for this company.

Sounds like a company is asking you to do three jobs for the price of one. I am not sure how large your company is, but HR can be a tough job by itself. I am the Marketing for my company and we are a small company of just over 100 people. We have an HR Director that is always busy.

[bamarsha]

I'll be honest and say that I don't have the insight to very confidently state what the minimum wage should be or what a living wage is in dollars.

But I will say that the people looking their nose down at anyone making less than $50k or presuming that people are working stressful, thankless jobs at fast food or similar in order to have an easy road to living like a movie star are absolutely despicable and completely ignorant. Shame on you if you're someone who thinks that way.

Maybe read the previous posts in the other thread. Your "paraphrasing" is completely out of context and inaccurate.

To recap, NO ONE actually makes minimum wage in the fast food industry these days. Plus, entry level fast food jobs are not supposed provide enough money for a house, a car, cell phones, and all sorts of other luxuries. You have to learn more skills and valuable skills if you want all the move out of the apartment and ditch the roommate. Show you are a hard worker and are reliable, get promoted from entry level and get a raise. Keep working and learning and get into management there, if you want to stay in fast food. Or use your new skills to get a new job that pays more.

The $50k reference was directed at people that think entry level fast food workers should be paid that much, as a living wage (equating living wage to movie star lifestyle was a bit of an exaggeration... for most people, but it does tend to get out of hand). That is simply not true. For that matter, I implied that people that make $50k have gained skills and worked hard to get to where they are, as that is not an entry level fast food wage.

[OkieBerto]

Maybe read the previous posts in the other thread. Your "paraphrasing" is completely out of context and inaccurate.

To recap, NO ONE actually makes minimum wage in the fast food industry these days. Plus, entry level fast food jobs are not supposed provide enough money for a house, a car, cell phones, and all sorts of other luxuries. You have to learn more skills and valuable skills if you want all the move out of the apartment and ditch the roommate. Show you are a hard worker and are reliable, get promoted from entry level and get a raise. Keep working and learning and get into management there, if you want to stay in fast food. Or use your new skills to get a new job that pays more.

The $50k reference was directed at people that think entry level fast food workers should be paid that much, as a living wage (equating living wage to movie star lifestyle was a bit of an exaggeration... for most people, but it does tend to get out of hand). That is simply not true. For that matter, I implied that people that make $50k have gained skills and worked hard to get to where they are, as that is not an entry level fast food wage.

At $15 an hour they are paying at Braums that is maybe an entry level job is still under $30,000 a year before you take the taxes out. "In OKC to live comfortably an Hourly wage needed for a single working adult is $38.66." This is based on the 50/30/20 budget rule that recommends spending approximately 50% of your income on basic needs like food and housing, 30% on wants and putting away the remainder toward savings or paying off debt. Source

A Cell phone is a Luxury Item? Sheesh

[Ginkasa]

The fact you list housing as a luxury says everything. No, not the fanciest Malibu mansion, but people should be able to work an "entry level fast food" job and earn a wage high enough to find decent housing. Also, people don't like to accept it, but a car and a cell phone is a requirement in today's modern society. If we aren't providing the infrastructure for people to get to where they need to be when they need to be in a reasonable amount of time, how can we expect them to have time to "earn skills" and put in the work for that magical $50k job? If people don't have a phone number to provide and be contacted at for interviews, etc. how can they ever hope to get that out of that hole of working minimum wage jobs?

I had parents who could pay the bills and provided me a phone and a car until I made enough to move out and support myself. Not everyone has that luxury. If you start from nothing and the only jobs you can get hired for simply the circumstance of your birth are "entry level fast food" jobs it is going to be a disproportionate struggle to get anywhere near "$50k". The conversation about "minimum" and "livable" wages is really about whether someone in that position even gets a shot at living the life I'm sure most of on this forum are privileged to have.

And, again, "entry level fast food" requires skill and hard work to do decently, particularly when companies are cutting payroll and sacrificing the customer experience (which was the core discussion over the Braum's thread) for the sake of maximizing profit. I was trained for my "entry level fast food" jobs back in the day. I was trained for my current job and its easier in literally ever way.

[Jersey Boss]

A often neglected segment of the minimum wage discussion is many farm jobs. There are a basket of occupations in this industry that are not minimum wage eligible. Also most agricultural workers are exempt from overtime wages.

[bamarsha]

At $15 an hour they are paying at Braums that is maybe an entry level job is still under $30,000 a year before you take the taxes out. "In OKC to live comfortably an Hourly wage needed for a single working adult is $38.66." This is based on the 50/30/20 budget rule that recommends spending approximately 50% of your income on basic needs like food and housing, 30% on wants and putting away the remainder toward savings or paying off debt. Source

A Cell phone is a Luxury Item? Sheesh

So, per your source, $40,206 is a livable wage... the rest is wants and savings. Build your skills, move up and apply the 50/30/20 rule.

An old cell phone may be a necessity, but a brand new iPhone/Samsung every two years is definitely not... my bad for not being clear on that.

[BoulderSooner]

At $15 an hour they are paying at Braums that is maybe an entry level job is still under $30,000 a year before you take the taxes out. "In OKC to live comfortably an Hourly wage needed for a single working adult is $38.66." This is based on the 50/30/20 budget rule that recommends spending approximately 50% of your income on basic needs like food and housing, 30% on wants and putting away the remainder toward savings or paying off debt. Source

A Cell phone is a Luxury Item? Sheesh

your math is not very good 15 bucks an hour (40 hours a week) is 31,200 a year .. over 30k not under ... and 38.66 that is lol funny ... that is over 80k ...

[bamarsha]

The fact you list housing as a luxury says everything. No, not the fanciest Malibu mansion, but people should be able to work an "entry level fast food" job and earn a wage high enough to find decent housing. Also, people don't like to accept it, but a car and a cell phone is a requirement in today's modern society. If we aren't providing the infrastructure for people to get to where they need to be when they need to be in a reasonable amount of time, how can we expect them to have time to "earn skills" and put in the work for that magical $50k job? If people don't have a phone number to provide and be contacted at for interviews, etc. how can they ever hope to get that out of that hole of working minimum wage jobs?

Having a house is a luxury (I did not say housing). I lived in a apartment for many years of my adult life, until I was to the point in which I could buy one. Cars are not fully necessary, as you can get much cheaper transportation (bus, motorcycle, bike, etc.)... but even if you got a car, you don't have to have a brand new one or one that looks awesome. I clarified myself above regarding the cell phone... you may need one, just not a brand new one, every 2 years . Houses, new cars, new cells.. those ARE luxuries... you don't NEED any of that... those are WANTS. Those luxuries shouldn't be given to you, but you should earn them.

And while I am clarifying... when I say hard work, I am not referring to physical labor, type of hard work... I am talking about being on time, being reliable, doing what you are supposed to be doing, getting thing your task complete, developing new skills, being a benefit to the company, etc. If your company doesn't reward you for your hard work, there are plenty of others out there that will. Maybe after your shift, hit up a library to learn more skills. There are many ways to improve yourself than just hoping for the best. (And to further clarify, "you" in this context doesn't mean you personally, but a generic you.)

[BoulderSooner]

I make average income and after my roommate got married I can BARELY get by after rent and utilities. Average income does not mean average livability. I am a manager + HR and marketing for this company.

that all depends on where you are choosing to live ... (like if you roommate and you lived downtown for instance)

[Jersey Boss]

Does the low wage job provide medical insurance? Healthcare is a necessity and needs to be part of the discussion for those employed in this country when factoring in "liveable" wages.

[OkieBerto]

your math is not very good 15 bucks an hour (40 hours a week) is 31,200 a year .. over 30k not under ... and 38.66 that is lol funny ... that is over 80k ...

Thank you for adding so much to the conversation. Snark doesn't pay very well these days. I am glad you find this situation so funny.

[OkieBerto]

So, per your source, $40,206 is a livable wage... the rest is wants and savings. Build your skills, move up and apply the 50/30/20 rule.

An old cell phone may be a necessity, but a brand new iPhone/Samsung every two years is definitely not... my bad for not being clear on that.

Correct, so if you want the Government to take care of all the people with out savings continue to argue about how much someone should be paid. This includes emergency savings for when something bad happens that you haven't planned for.