Regarding the State Fair of old in OKC

[whorton]

Does anyone recall why the fair demolished the Art Center and photo exhibition building that was on the Northside of General Pershing ave between 2005 and 2006? It seems the functions were moved to the former Kirkpatrick planetarium building after the planetarium had moved to the Omniplex. But I am unable to find any information on why they removed the building.

Anyone?

[SoonerDave]

It was an outgrowth of the scorched-earth, destroy-everything policy undertaken by Fair leadership headed up by then-director Skip Wegner. During that time, Fair and some city leadership wanted to reinvent the the Fair and get it away from it's "funnel cake and corndog" image. To that end, they had a long range plan to essentially decimate most of the existing grounds or let them rot in place if replacement weren't feasible. Over the long haul, this resulted in the razing of many buildings, cementing of the fountains, shredding the 14 Flags plaza, and dumping the monorail. OKC had one of the most distinctive Fairs in the country, but most of that has been plowed over. It's really sad. A lot of those old buildings were plowed down for parking.

A lot of us tried in our own way to fight what was happening to the fairgrounds. I even managed to get a letter I wrote to KTOK read on-air (I think by Mike McCarville) one evening, a letter decrying the changes and hoping for some sanity be brought to the process...but it was not to be. As I said, Wegner left, but by then the damage had been done, and our Fairgrounds will never be the same.

The height of the stupidity for me was the year they actually tried putting in a "tea room" for the Fair, complete with effete funiture right down to the little round tables. It was embarrassing to walk past the thing and see all these empty tables and this absurdly out of place "attraction." At least they realized that was a mistake the folliowing year and didn't repeat it.

Yeah, I guess I'm a little bitter about the fairgrounds and what was done to it out of no small amount of plain old snobbery. We could have modernized the fair without destroying it.

[rte66man]

It was an outgrowth of the scorched-earth, destroy-everything policy undertaken by Fair leadership headed up by then-director Skip Wegner. ...Over the long haul, this resulted in the razing of many buildings, cementing of the fountains, shredding the 14 Flags plaza, and dumping the monorail.

While agreeing with you that they shouldn't have done it "scorched earth", the monorail had to go. The cost to replace the trains alone was cost prohibitive. IIRC there was a thread on this a few years ago.

[stile99]

While agreeing with you that they shouldn't have done it "scorched earth", the monorail had to go. The cost to replace the trains alone was cost prohibitive. IIRC there was a thread on this a few years ago.

TBH, there are several threads about "whatever happened to the fairgrounds". Just scrolling down on this very topic shows similar threads titled "Where did our State Fair go?", "State Fair BS", and "State Fair?". That last one seems pretty similar to another thread (also listed on this very page) titled "Great State Fair of Oklahoma or just Ok County Fair".

It's a horse that's pretty much just a pulp after all the multiple beatings.

[Uptowner]

I am bitter about the fairgrounds as well. So much funky mid century architecture. I miss the grand stand. I miss the big jets and the b-52 bomber on stilts. I even miss 89er’s stadium, brick town can be such a hassle to catch a game. I remember you could pay something like a dollar to plop a blanket and sit on the embankment in the outfield.

Dallas has done a fantastic job keeping the old school feel at the Texas fairgrounds the cotton bowl even (mostly) the same from the approach after being upgraded to over 90,000 seats. They’ve got a modernized gondola lift.

What’s wrong with funnel cakes and corn dogs? Snobbery indeed. And the millennials go gaga for nostalgia and camp. Even if it was from half a century before they were born.

People argue about the noise from the grand stand and it was the main defense for razing it, but you know in a heartbeat the racers could put some muffleds on the exhaust.

[jn1780]

It has always been the main goal of the Texas State Fair to keep it as a tourist destination. Most of the cattle, rodeo, horse shows in fort worth. They spent a lot of money on their new modern attractions.

The OK state fair went a different route and now it's about to be stomped on when that new Dickies arena gets finished in Fort Worth

[rezman]

People argue about the noise from the grand stand and it was the main defense for razing it, but you know in a heartbeat the racers could put some muffleds on the exhaust.

They actually did run muffler inserts, but the city was hell bent on shutting it down anyway. IIRC the noise curfew for the speedway was 11:00 pm, and on those nights when the features ran long, the State Fair just paid the fine. It was done that way for years.

[SoonerDave]

It has always been the main goal of the Texas State Fair to keep it as a tourist destination. Most of the cattle, rodeo, horse shows in fort worth. They spent a lot of money on their new modern attractions.

The OK state fair went a different route and now it's about to be stomped on when that new Dickies arena gets finished in Fort Worth

Dallas is apparently getting ready to pay about $10-15 million a year to a private firm to take over daily operations of their fairgrounds. They also are wanting ways to reinvigorate the area; I'll never forget that J Jones offered to build the new Cowboy stadium on top of the old Cotton Bowl AND put in an entertainment district that would have made the area a viable destination spot for the next 20 years; he just asked Dallas to share the cost. They refused, because They Just Weren't Going To Give Money To A Billionaire, Because. The project was obviously scrapped, Jones moved to Arlington, and the Dallas Fairgrounds are still in a crappy, even dangerous, part of town, undeveleoped and likely to stay that way. Current Dallas leadership is finally seeing the value in preserving properties like a great Fairgrounds; I only wish ours had.

I know this is a dead-horse-beating topic, but the arrogance in the way our Fairgrounds was decimated by by essentially the tea and crumpets crowd will always be a sore spot for me. It was 100% avoidable. If only a reaching out had taken place to lay out a way to fix it's problems rather than just throw out the baby with the bathwater, we might not have merely the shell of what it once was. Lots of folks have wished OKC had a unique, signature spot, and I think the old Fairgrounds would have been a great candidate. Obviously, we'll never know.

Okay, sorry, rant over.

[turnpup]

They actually did run muffler inserts, but the city was hell bent on shutting it down anyway. IIRC the noise curfew for the speedway was 11:00 pm, and on those nights when the features ran long, the State Fair just paid the fine. It was done that way for years.

We used to live in Linwood Place, just about a mile due north of the former grandstand, and enjoyed the sounds of the races every Friday night. It was one of those things we associated with summertime, and being outside, etc. For us, it was a pleasant association. We were sad when they ended. However, there were neighbor friends of ours who absolutely hated it and rejoiced in its demise.

[Uptowner]

Yeah. I just don’t get it. A lot of people just feel like they live on 150 acres and any sound, kids running through their yard, people parking in the street in front of their houses, neighbors bar b queing, as an affront. I tell ya, I’d be a regular at the races if it still existed.

Where is the action these days? I know about the track on I-44 near the Canadian river. But it looks like they only do sprint cars and it’s quite small. I would love to see motorcycles, late model, and dirt modified.

[rezman]

^ Ardmore, Enid, Lawton, & Tulsa, among others. Motorcycle Flat Track has been running at Reminton Park the last two years.


I remember living in Warr Acres back when they ran open headers and they could clearly be heard.

And being at the track, standing at the fence as the final lap of cars in “A” feature Super Modified crossed the finish line. .... ahh the good old days.

We had one of the fastest back straights in the nation.

[Mel]

From Sooner Dave, "It was an outgrowth of the scorched-earth, destroy-everything policy undertaken by Fair leadership headed up by then-director Skip Wegner. During that time, Fair and some city leadership wanted to reinvent the Fair and get it away from it's "funnel cake and corndog" image."


One of the more elegant ways of how I have always felt about what happened. They fixed it 'till it broke. I am older and a fixed income. There is very little left I want to go see anymore out there. I go for my Grandkids.

[mugofbeer]

We used to live in Linwood Place, just about a mile due north of the former grandstand, and enjoyed the sounds of the races every Friday night. It was one of those things we associated with summertime, and being outside, etc. For us, it was a pleasant association. We were sad when they ended. However, there were neighbor friends of ours who absolutely hated it and rejoiced in its demise.

I grew up there and felt the same way about the racers.

[CloudDeckMedia]

It’s a good venue for horse shows, concerts and the State Fair due to highway access & expansive parking. But these are quick, in-and-out events with low visitor expectations for food & bathrooms. In order to attract visitors who stay longer and spend more money they’ll need attractions that are expensive to install and operate such as the Space Needle, monorail, archway, static airplane displays, restaurants & entertainment - what they had & lost. You’re describing a MAPS-type of investment to rebuild the State Fairgrounds, and I don’t see that happening.

[SoonerDave]

It’s a good venue for horse shows, concerts and the State Fair due to highway access & expansive parking. But these are quick, in-and-out events with low visitor expectations for food & bathrooms. In order to attract visitors who stay longer and spend more money they’ll need attractions that are expensive to install and operate such as the Space Needle, monorail, archway, static airplane displays, restaurants & entertainment - what they had & lost. You’re describing a MAPS-type of investment to rebuild the State Fairgrounds, and I don’t see that happening.

Oh, entirely agreed. They got rid of the things they hated, and surely have no incentive to bring any semblance of them them back.

[whorton]

While agreeing with you that they shouldn't have done it "scorched earth", the monorail had to go. The cost to replace the trains alone was cost prohibitive. IIRC there was a thread on this a few years ago.

I just wanted to make it clear, I really didn't start the thread to rehash the felonious destruction of a beloved entertainment venue at the hands of heartless bureaucrats.

I started a project looking at the changes at the fairgrounds over the years, and in looking at aerial's of the fairgrounds, noticed the buildings glaring absence on a 2006 capture. In looking back I have been unable to find any documentation of the reason the building was demolished. Most of the major changes at the fairgrounds have been at least minimally documented in the newspaper, however, it was mum on this issue.

I am still amazed that such latitude has been given the fair board to make extensive changes with such little input from the public.

[jn1780]

I just wanted to make it clear, I really didn't start the thread to rehash the felonious destruction of a beloved entertainment venue at the hands of heartless bureaucrats.

I started a project looking at the changes at the fairgrounds over the years, and in looking at aerial's of the fairgrounds, noticed the buildings glaring absence on a 2006 capture. In looking back I have been unable to find any documentation of the reason the building was demolished. Most of the major changes at the fairgrounds have been at least minimally documented in the newspaper, however, it was mum on this issue.

I am still amazed that such latitude has been given the fair board to make extensive changes with such little input from the public.

Here's your answer. It was demolished because of flooding. So similar fate to the stage center except it would be hard to make the case to save this building. The main tenant left to become what is now known as the OKC museum of art.

http://okcmod.com/architecture/rip/o...e-fairgrounds/

[whorton]

Here's your answer. It was demolished because of flooding. So similar fate to the stage center except it would be hard to make the case to save this building. The main tenant left to become what is now known as the OKC museum of art.

http://okcmod.com/architecture/rip/o...e-fairgrounds/

Thank you very much. Exactly what I was looking for.

Wesley H.

[whorton]

After a quick revisit, I have to admit. I do not like what the fair has become. I had attended OKLAHOMA CITY schooOKLuntil starting 7th grade at Jackson Jr. High in the 71-72 school year. Moved to Del city just after the school year started. For me as a kid, the State fair was the big point of the year. From 7th grade it was about pensive first dates. . .

But then I had moved to Tulsa and married and brought the kids down in the mid 90's without really knowing how things had changed. I had built the kids up for the trip down JUST FOR THE STATE FAIR. NEEDLESS TO SAY IT WAS NOTHING LIKE IT HAD BEEN IN THE 60's and 70's. As far as the kids were concerned it was a bust. Never been back since. Never will either.

No grandstand, no working space needle, no seedy midway. . . but lots of overpriced food, mediocre exhibits, a significant disappointment. Even eEUyears later, I've not forgiven the fair board.

[SoonerDave]

In the six or so years since this thread started, I look now at the OKC and Dallas fairs, and look at the divergent paths they've taken. I won't rehash what's lost, because obviously it will never come back. But I look at what Dallas *has* done to their fair and it just breaks my heart. They've spent **millions** on a contemporary skyway, and added an amazing new "21st Century" space needle ride. Despite the fact it is still in an awful part of town, and they had a shooting on grounds last year, Dallas is making a concerted effort to keep their fairgrounds relevant - and are starting a six-figure effort to renew the Cotton Bowl. I look at our fairgrounds by comparison and say, "What might have been..."

[whorton]

Excellent points all. While I've not seen the attendance figures for either the fair or the totality of the extreme AG conversions, I have to wonder if the changes Snippy Weagner started are actually paying dividends or not.

But it also occurs to me that the "Fair trust" has been anything approaching transperant with their financial situation or an accounting of their projects.

That needs to change!

[gjl]

One thing I've noticed in the last couple of years is fewer and fewer vendors in the buildings each year to where it is very noticeable.

[Dob Hooligan]

^^^^
my business has been located 2 blocks from the Fairgrounds since 1982. 42 years. It is busy year round. It generates a lot of money. It is well managed and overseen. The State Fair trust has always been a group of successful businesspeople with deep ties to Oklahoma City. Those people are volunteers who think the Fairgrounds complex should operate like a business and trust the management to operate it in a manner that allows it to grow while enhancing visitation, spending, and the city's image. It does all of that well, stays very busy and makes money. I have never heard any person in OKC government complain about the operation and revenue of the Fairgrounds in this century. They are doing it right IMO.

The days of the Fairgrounds being the dumping grounds for any old trinket or relic that belongs to a business or government agency, and they don't want it, but can't bring themselves to throw it away, are gone. And should be.

The Fairgrounds were built in the 1950s, and were not built to be 100 year structures. They were built on the cheap. And the older, and original, buildings show it.

[Rover]

In the six or so years since this thread started, I look now at the OKC and Dallas fairs, and look at the divergent paths they've taken. I won't rehash what's lost, because obviously it will never come back. But I look at what Dallas *has* done to their fair and it just breaks my heart. They've spent **millions** on a contemporary skyway, and added an amazing new "21st Century" space needle ride. Despite the fact it is still in an awful part of town, and they had a shooting on grounds last year, Dallas is making a concerted effort to keep their fairgrounds relevant - and are starting a six-figure effort to renew the Cotton Bowl. I look at our fairgrounds by comparison and say, "What might have been..."

If we had 8 million people in our metro area then maybe we could and should do those cool things too.
Our fairgrounds is highly relevant too… just not in the way some would like it to be.

[SoonerDave]

If we had 8 million people in our metro area then maybe we could and should do those cool things too.
Our fairgrounds is highly relevant too… just not in the way some would like it to be.

No, it's only relevant to the rich horse crowd that effectively controls it. Many of us consider it to have been "relevant" *to the entire city* the way it *was* until it was *pointlessly changed.* This city has proven what can be done with MAPS. We could have done almost exactly what Dallas did, on our own scale, with our fairgrounds. Instead, snobbish leadership thumbed their nose at it, plowed it under , and some try to pretend it never existed.