OKC long term Sustainability!

[progressiveboy]

We know we do not have a crystal ball. Question? What is your opinion on OKC long term sustainability? I feel the city has much untapped potential, however based on recent newspaper editorials young people are starting to move out of the State because the opportunities just are not there and they are leaning towards better job offers and more progressive forward thinking politics in other places. Our politics do not help in anyway. What are things that can help OKC have a more bright, sustained future? Any thoughts?

[progressiveboy]

One thing comes to mind is for the State to be more proactive in getting better job opportunities for them to stay! We need more taxpayers, not taxes.

[Pete]

We know we do not have a crystal ball. Question? What is your opinion on OKC long term sustainability? I feel the city has much untapped potential, however based on recent newspaper editorials young people are starting to move out of the State because the opportunities just are not there and they are leaning towards better job offers and more progressive forward thinking politics in other places. Our politics do not help in anyway. What are things that can help OKC have a more bright, sustained future? Any thoughts?

Texas has almost the same policies (especially of late) and they are killing it in terms of growth.

The biggest difference between the states is that Texas invests in education and has several excellent universities, both public and private. Until Oklahoma gets serious on this front we are never going to see a lot of start-ups or tech companies electing to set up shop here. And that's how desirable and creative jobs come to be.

[bison34]

Texas has almost the same policies (especially of late) and they are killing it in terms of growth.

The biggest difference between the states is that Texas invests in education and has several excellent universities, both public and private. Until Oklahoma gets serious on this front we are never going to see a lot of start-ups or tech companies electing to set up shop here. And that's how desirable and creative jobs come to be.

The thing they have is UT makes more from their mineral interests than Oklahoma makes a year, as a whole. Most of their funding comes from that, I believe.

But your point stands true. Oklahoma needs to invest in higher education. They have stepped it up after years of cuts. Just need to figure out how to make the investments pay off.

https://shef.sheeo.org/grapevine/?cn-reloaded=1

[The]

My posts are on a roll of being deleted, but one thing OK should do is consolidate some of these universities. It’s too few resources spread way too thin. They should focus on OU and OSU and maybe a couple others.

[Pete]

one thing OK should do is consolidate some of these universities. It’s too few resources spread way too thin. They should focus on OU and OSU and maybe a couple others.

The problem is that the smaller schools are the lifeblood of the towns in which they are located, and also provide easy commutes for people who don't have the money to go away to Stillwater or Norman.

There isn't the political will to take NWOSU from Alva, East Central from Ada, Northeastern from Talequah, or Southwestern from Weatherford. All those small towns are already suffering.

[Bunty]

The problem is that the smaller schools are the lifeblood of the towns in which they are located, and also provide easy commutes for people who don't have the money to go away to Stillwater or Norman.

There isn't the political will to take NWOSU from Alva, East Central from Ada, Northeastern from Talequah, or Southwestern from Weatherford. All those small towns are already suffering.

If those smaller universities were closed, who would buy them? Likely nobody. They would just look abandoned, a needless waste.

Tahlequah certainly isn't doing bad as one of Oklahoma's fastest growing small towns outside of OKC and Tulsa metros.

[stlokc]

We know we do not have a crystal ball. Question? What is your opinion on OKC long term sustainability? I feel the city has much untapped potential, however based on recent newspaper editorials young people are starting to move out of the State because the opportunities just are not there and they are leaning towards better job offers and more progressive forward thinking politics in other places. Our politics do not help in anyway. What are things that can help OKC have a more bright, sustained future? Any thoughts?

The question is how does one define "sustainable?" With the relative closeness of OKC to Mexico and the fast-growing Hispanic population, and the continued emptying of small town Oklahoma, it seems logical that OKC will continue to grow in sheer numbers for a number of years into the future. I see a future of 2 million population pretty easily. Maybe more. Ultimately those taps will begin to dry if there is not some reason beyond these for the growth to continue. OKC needs to look at the industries of the future and make the kinds of investments that will pay off 20-50 years down the road when the demography changes. I also think "sustainability" has to take a hard look at the sprawl. The city will collapse under the weight of its infrastructure needs if the drive to density and core development does not continue apace and speed up.

[Bunty]

The thing they have is UT makes more from their mineral interests than Oklahoma makes a year, as a whole. Most of their funding comes from that, I believe.

But your point stands true. Oklahoma needs to invest in higher education. They have stepped it up after years of cuts. Just need to figure out how to make the investments pay off.

https://shef.sheeo.org/grapevine/?cn-reloaded=1

Maybe that is why I hardly see any people with ideas from Oklahoma on Shark. It takes a good education to come up with inventive new business ideas. Since Oklahoma can't seem to attract much business, especially with high paying jobs from the outside, then it needs to invest better in education to help new ideas for business to come up within the state.

[Bunty]

The question is how does one define "sustainable?" With the relative closeness of OKC to Mexico and the fast-growing Hispanic population, and the continued emptying of small town Oklahoma, it seems logical that OKC will continue to grow in sheer numbers for a number of years into the future. I see a future of 2 million population pretty easily. Maybe more. Ultimately those taps will begin to dry if there is not some reason beyond these for the growth to continue. OKC needs to look at the industries of the future and make the kinds of investments that will pay off 20-50 years down the road when the demography changes. I also think "sustainability" has to take a hard look at the sprawl. The city will collapse under the weight of its infrastructure needs if the drive to density and core development does not continue apace and speed up.

The 2023 Census estimate for Oklahoma City recently came out and it's 702,767 up from 695,278 in 2022.

[bison34]

Maybe that is why I hardly see any people with ideas from Oklahoma on Shark. It takes a good education to come up with inventive new business ideas. Since Oklahoma can't seem to attract much business, especially with high paying jobs from the outside, then it needs to invest better in education to help new ideas for business to come up within the state.

Oklahoma has improved higher Ed funding greatly over the last 5 years, and has shown a willingness to continue to. All the attention was on secondary and elementary ed, and rightfully so. But higher ed has gotten a pretty nice bump recently.

Not perfect, but improving. That's all you can do. Can't just imagine an extra billion into the budget.

[stlokc]

I saw that. The metro area was closing in on 1.5 million. Something like 1,488,000. One more year and we should get there. Of course estimates are pretty flawed and are usually revised. But there is no doubt as to the momentum.

The more interesting question is the subject of dynamism vs. size. More, more, more should not necessarily be the goal in and of itself. I mean, Austin has 2 million something and Detroit has 4 million something. Which city would you rather be?

I do think OKC is held back by the state we are in, and the perception of it nationally as seen by educated folks who build and grow companies.

[Pete]

Oklahoma has improved higher Ed funding greatly over the last 5 years, and has shown a willingness to continue to. All the attention was on secondary and elementary ed, and rightfully so. But higher ed has gotten a pretty nice bump recently.

Not perfect, but improving. That's all you can do. Can't just imagine an extra billion into the budget.

Yet, they are trying to cut taxes further, which shows you how much they really care about education.

[bison34]

Yet, they are trying to cut taxes further, which shows you how much they really care about education.

They've tried for years, and haven't cut education since 2017.

Tax cuts don't mean they hate education. I'll stop getting political, though.

[Pete]

Tax cuts make it harder to fund anything, including education.

The best we can hope for is small increases which is never going to get us to where we need to go.

[TheTravellers]

Oklahoma has improved higher Ed funding greatly over the last 5 years, and has shown a willingness to continue to. All the attention was on secondary and elementary ed, and rightfully so. But higher ed has gotten a pretty nice bump recently.

Not perfect, but improving. That's all you can do. Can't just imagine an extra billion into the budget.

I haven't looked how much they've increased higher education funding, but I doubt it's "greatly". And does it completely reverse how deeply they cut it for the 10 or so years before that (35-ish percent per student, I believe) so it's back up to what it was and/or what it should be (in line with other states)?

Higher education *and* K-12 both need better funding, better administration, and an actual focus on education, as well as a stop to the ridiculous antics at 23rd/Lincoln for OKC to have decent companies locate here, people to stay, etc. OKC is doing reasonably well in spite of 23rd/Lincoln, though, thankfully.

[TheTravellers]

Tax cuts make it harder to fund anything, including education.

The best we can hope for is small increases which is never going to get us to where we need to go.

It's super hard to get taxes increased because of what the legislature did a bunch of years back (upped the threshold to an almost unattainable majority), so I doubt we'll ever get even small increases.

[Rover]

They've tried for years, and haven't cut education since 2017.

Tax cuts don't mean they hate education. I'll stop getting political, though.

Education has been made highly political with the current leadership… and not in a good way. And you can’t seriously believe our state leadership is committed to real educational improvements or even knows how to do it.

[BoulderSooner]

Education has been made highly political with the current leadership… and not in a good way.

that is laughable

[Dob Hooligan]

I think we have a bright future. We are a southern city in a southern state. The south is seen as a fast, if not the fastest, growing part of the US. We might not like the politics and social aspects, but Oklahoma and OKC are just like all the other southern states. Texas, Georgia and Florida are hot spots, yet they share the rest of our policies.

OKC has abundant land. Access to water enough to handle any possible future growth for the next 100 years. Right in the middle of America, with 3 Interstate highways that provide "border to border- coast to coast" access.

We are at least 50 years younger than all out neighboring cities. We might be impatient, but we are well positioned.

I can't think of any city west of us that is more sustainable than Oklahoma City.

[Mesta Parker]

It's super hard to get taxes increased because of what the legislature did a bunch of years back (upped the threshold to an almost unattainable majority), so I doubt we'll ever get even small increases.

Taxes don’t need to increase. Administrative bloat needs to be eliminated and those dollars repurposed to teaching students. The growth in administrators has far outpaced student and teacher growth for decades.

[Mississippi Blues]

The more interesting question is the subject of dynamism vs. size. More, more, more should not necessarily be the goal in and of itself. I mean, Austin has 2 million something and Detroit has 4 million something. Which city would you rather be?

Aye my guy, don’t call the coroner on Detroit yet. It’s slowly becoming a decently modern city and say what you will, but they have the historic bones that young, spicy, growing cities like Austin and Charlotte can’t replicate.

[Mississippi Blues]

that is laughable

Do you ever feel awkward for laughing when no one else is?

[mugofbeer]

If those smaller universities were closed, who would buy them? Likely nobody. They would just look abandoned, a needless waste.

Tahlequah certainly isn't doing bad as one of Oklahoma's fastest growing small towns outside of OKC and Tulsa metros.

IMO small schools are in danger of extinction anyway due to the rise of online schooling. No one is suggesting all of the small campuses be closed. Some of the schools that Pete mentioned will survive but the tiny ones like East Central, Panhandle State, Langston, and satellite campuses may be doomed. There is no way the state will be able to afford to fund dozens of campuses. Instead of dozens of locations, each with administration, regents and with classrooms and dorms, the focus should be on technology and bringing in better classes via internet. Yes it may be hard on individual communities but better to start a plan including ways to help ease the pain rather than an immediate, unexpected closing.

[Dob Hooligan]

IMO small schools are in danger of extinction anyway due to the rise of online schooling. No one is suggesting all of the small campuses be closed. Some of the schools that Pete mentioned will survive but the tiny ones like East Central, Panhandle State, Langston, and satellite campuses may be doomed. There is no way the state will be able to afford to fund dozens of campuses. Instead of dozens of locations, each with administration, regents and with classrooms and dorms, the focus should be on technology and bringing in better classes via internet. Yes it may be hard on individual communities but better to start a plan including ways to help ease the pain rather than an immediate, unexpected closing.

I think Langston and Panhandle are both operated by the A&M regents, same as OSU. No idea about East Central. I don't know what we hope to gain by removing services from small towns in Oklahoma? We can't force everyone to "move to the City". Nor should we want to.