Homeless Population

[Pete]

I posted in the weather thread about a homeless woman having to be rescued from a drainage channel near my house. I see homeless almost every day down in that channel.

This closely on the heels of having to clear a big grove of trees near the Oklahoma River due to a big homeless camp that was generating tons of trash with a lot of it ended up in the inlet.

Yesterday, when I was taking photos at Mayfair, several homeless passed by. I see scores of them every time I walk in that area. Same with the 39th street LGBTQ district and of course I-44 & Penn.


This city has a huge and growing homeless problem and it seems to be spreading. I've seen them camping near Memorial Road and not long ago there was a camp behind Chipotle across from Baptist Hospital.

I know we have some MAPS money allocated for the homeless but it seems like things are rapidly getting out of control.

[Canoe]

Can someone tell me what makes OKC a good place for homelessness? I understand San Francisco being a good place because of the weather, but Oklahoma weather can be pretty rough. Also like you have said Pete, Oklahoma City doesn't seem to provide services to the homeless population. What I am missing? Pete feel free to delete if this is to off topic. I am honestly curious, and I dont know the answer.

[Pete]

I don't think OKC is a magnet for the homeless, I believe the population has just come from the city itself.

Even if there are services and housing, in the U.S. you can't forcibly take people off the streets and make them stay in a designated area. I remember them doing this is Switzerland when I spent several months there. They have a huge addiction problem there but they had law enforcement round up the homeless.

I used to run a homeless outreach program in L.A. (where the problem is exponentially larger) and almost all these people do not want the restrictions that come with shelters, such as maintaining sobriety and other necessary measures.


This has always been a problem but it seems much worse and rapidly escalating.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I think it is a byproduct of the opioid epidemic in the US. Norman also has a large homeless population that live down by the river. Any sort of homeless measures seem to get defeated as people don't want them nearby to their property or think if you build a shelter it will create more homeless population.

It is a pretty complex issue but I think Oklahoma is seeing a large homeless increase.

[Pete]

^

I'm sure the opioid spike has a lot to do with the upward trend.

We need to use more of the massive settlements against J&J and Sackler to address this issue.

And really, when you see the long-term effects, it's beginning to look like states did not ask for nearly enough.

[mugofbeer]

It's not just the opioids from the pharma companies but Fentanyl that is now in most every illegal drug compound being imported to the US. It has become a very deadly problem in Denver.

[Rover]

Can someone tell me what makes OKC a good place for homelessness? I understand San Francisco being a good place because of the weather, but Oklahoma weather can be pretty rough. Also like you have said Pete, Oklahoma City doesn't seem to provide services to the homeless population. What I am missing? Pete feel free to delete if this is to off topic. I am honestly curious, and I dont know the answer.

First of all, the San Francisco area has 5.5 TIMES the number of people as the Oklahoma City Area. Estimates of homeless there is 8,011. Oklahoma City's for a similar time period was 1.573. If we account for the increased population in SF, in proportion OKC would have 8,675 homeless.... or 8% MORE homeless than SF. So this right wing talking point of all the homeless in SF is not born of reality.

In most places, about 10% homeless are because of mental illness, about 20% because of addictions, about 50% because of layoffs/lack of work, and the rest a mix of other issues like divorces, kids being kicked out of the home, etc. These are universal problems and most not associated to liberal/conservative leanings, weather, or other straw men excuses.

OKC has a poor, poor track record of dealing with poverty and homelessness. The state/city doesn't seem to want to help solve problems, just isolate and castigate. There have been back-to-work programs in other places that are effective in getting people back to self sufficiency. For instance, I worked with a company that contracted with Riverside, California to hire homeless seeking to get back on their feet. The city took homeless and put them in apartments and helped train and organize them to be productive workers. Our factory contracted for workers with them. The city did dependency screening, basic skills training, etc., and provided bus transportation to and from the factory to make sure they arrive on time and had a way back (most didn't have cars and public transport didn't cover the area totally). After a qualifying period the employees were eligible to be full time employees and could afford to start paying for their housing, etc.... they were back on their feet. It worked and it showed that most homeless WANT to be self sufficient and provide for themselves and family, contrary to the belief many have that all they want is a handout. So, even if it works for 50% of the homeless, that would be very, very worthwhile and actually a cost saver for the city.

[Dob Hooligan]

This is an observation-not a complaint. Let me be clear on that.

Seems to me that we have noticed the homeless more since we have reduced the Oklahoma County jail population and had the commutation event at the State level. And although it would be easy to say we weren't properly prepared for those people reentering society, it might be that we needed this influx to make us aware of the need for improved services.

[SEMIweather]

I don’t really have any opinions or even suggestions on this issue as my opinion is more or less that the increasing homeless populations across nearly every city in America are just something intractable that we will be dealing with for the foreseeable future. I do think that this Atlantic article provides an unbiased, middle-of-the-road viewpoint and has helped me understand the root causes of the issue much more than anything else I’ve read on the subject. It first and foremost just comes across as a tragedy to me and I don’t think the causes or solutions break down neatly among political lines, which in an increasingly polarized country unfortunately means that it’s likely going to be very difficult to address.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...w-meth/620174/

[dankrutka]

I remember being intrigued by Salt Lake City's “Housing First” policy when I read about it years ago. The idea is to help homeless people find housing and then help address associated problems concerning job preparation to mental illness to drug addiction. Aside from being a more humane approach, it also is intended to reduce other costs the city/state pay for homelessness from arrests to medical emergencies. Unfortunately, it seems like the funding for the housing first program in SLC has dried up. To me, this is the best solution I've seen, but it requires money and empathy... both of which are unlikely to come from the state. It'll mostly be up to OKC to come up with its own solutions. I hope it's not the same old approaches that have fallen short in other cities.

[Pete]

There is not only an enormous human cost but a massive tax burden as well.

Think about the expense of rescuing the lady from the drainage channel today. Or the constant cleanup of the various camps.

I've seen ambulances and paramedics administering to the homeless many times near my neighborhood.


We need to be spending money on proactive measures to help stop these problems before there are emergencies.

[king183]

It's not just the opioids from the pharma companies but Fentanyl that is now in most every illegal drug compound being imported to the US. It has become a very deadly problem in Denver.

Opioids are certainly a significant factor, but if you speak to the experts at the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, they’ll tell you that meth remains the biggest problem here, though it’s been overshadowed by the attention opioids have been receiving.

[Midtowner]

And I have to wonder whether the uptick in homelessness isn't only a function of there being more people sliding into homelessness, but a function of life saving interventions, i.e., Narcan, which keep them alive, but still homeless. Have we simply become so adept at managing our homeless population that being homeless comes with a significantly lower cost? Have there always been thing like warming stations to ensure homeless don't freeze to death? Maybe a major factor in what looks like increasing homelessness is that you can live that way for a pretty long time and manage not to die from it compared to past years?

[oklip955]

I am not an expert on the homeless situation. I can only speak about what I saw back in the day (mid 1980's when I worked for Amcare) We would run on homeless people claiming injuries, chest pain etc often. These people had the system figured out. They would get to the ER the ER would have to run them through expensive testing and while waiting for results and for observation would be held over night. The person would get meals and clean bed warm bed. The hospitals knew what was going on but could not turn them away. Most did not have any insurance nor any money. Just another expense that the hospitals had to deal with. At that time again many of these people had mental health issues or drug/alcohol addiction issues. Since that times it seems the problem has only grown exponentially. How do you help people that dont want help? I've seen people who had families with a great deal of money who could not reach out and help their family members. They just did not want help and just wanted to live like they lived. My only 3 cents (inflation) is to donate a few dollars to the homeless shelters to at least help them help those who want help.

[Zuplar]

I like so many others don't have a solution, all I can say is it makes me so very sad. I've seen several of the homeless talking to themselves, with no one around, it's clear there is mental health problems. It makes me want to give them food or money, but then I wonder if that's doing any good? Is it just enabling them? Do they even eat the food or use the money?

I'm all for getting these people the help they deserve, and would support any initiative that took a different approach, because society has failed many of these people.

[dankrutka]

I used to show this Frontline documentary, "The New Asylum," when I taught psychology. In short, instead of creating systems to support people with mental disorders such as schizophrenia, they just end up homeless or in jail—both at massive costs to the taxpayer. There's a sad scene where an inmate is offered mental health care and immediately shows progress only to be sent back to his cell. It's obvious that the entire system is broken.

[dankrutka]

How do you help people that dont want help?

It's important to remember that this is only a portion of the homeless population. Many people who are homeless welcome help and can change their lives when they have supports.

[oklip955]

I never said all of them dont want help. There is a sizable amount of homeless that dont want help. Usually these are the ones with serious mental health or addiction issues and are in denial that they have problems that they need professional help. With the laws today its tough for family and friend to intervene. There are resources out there for those who truly want help and want to get back on their feet and solve their issues. Many not as good as they could be but for those who do want to get their life in order, it can be done.

[oklip955]

Also, for the folks who can, please donate to the different groups that do help the homeless. I try to send them a few $$ to farther their work.

[TheTravellers]

Also, for the folks who can, please donate to the different groups that do help the homeless. I try to send them a few $$ to farther their work.

And buy Curbside Chronicle every month. I try to get each issue and give the vendor $20 since they're obviously out there hustling trying to get better.

[Bits_Of_Real_Panther]

Rent has gone up way faster than anyone's income

Lot of disruption there.

PBS newsHour had a segment tonight about how boomers are the fastest growing segment of new homeless.

Quite a shame to witness how this country fails so many people.

I'm in my 40s. I see these stories. I pray I can skirt those outcomes.

But realistically I don't know how much of that is on my control vs an outside force that is slightly pervasive now and heading towards the super pervasive...

[bucktalk]

I spent a weekend in downtown Fort Worth -mainly in the Sundance Square area. I was absolutely amazed how clean the 8-10 block area was. There was minimal litter at best. I was also surprised that I didn't see one homeless person in that area for three days. Not one. Made me wonder if that area wasn't helpful to homeless or was there an effort to keep them out.

[sooner88]

I just had an offer accepted on a house in Mayfair, and the homeless population that lives in Smitty Park and walks to the bridge was our biggest hesitation in making an offer. Things will improve with the Oak coming in, but it sounds like it's reached a breaking point here. A friend of mine backs up to the park, and she said there's an abandoned house that is filled with homeless and drug users that has created a huge nuisance... so much so that her neighbor's car was lit on fire recently. She's filed all sorts of police reports, but they haven't been very receptive.

[Pete]

^

I also back up to Smitty Park -- looking at it right now -- and have never had a problem. No homeless are living in that park.

And I walk 4 miles through the neighborhood every single day and have never had an issue.

[Edmond Hausfrau]

I remember being intrigued by Salt Lake City's “Housing First” policy when I read about it years ago. The idea is to help homeless people find housing and then help address associated problems concerning job preparation to mental illness to drug addiction. Aside from being a more humane approach, it also is intended to reduce other costs the city/state pay for homelessness from arrests to medical emergencies. Unfortunately, it seems like the funding for the housing first program in SLC has dried up. To me, this is the best solution I've seen, but it requires money and empathy... both of which are unlikely to come from the state. It'll mostly be up to OKC to come up with its own solutions. I hope it's not the same old approaches that have fallen short in other cities.

The housing first model has been used here in Oklahoma as well. Mental health Association of Oklahoma has been a champion for it.
https://mhaok.org/housing-first-model
There is also a movement to make more shelters "low barrier", meaning less hoops for the person to jump (may not have any form of ID, may have pets, may have substance use issues) I know there is at least one low barrier shelter in OKC.