Tulsa is outdoing us.

[deltablues]

The new ONEOK field, the BOK, The riverwalk (by an actual river, not a creek like us), a Hard Rock Casino/Cafe/Resort, a Toby Keith bar, and on and on and on. Whats going on?

[okcpulse]

The new ONEOK field?? How is that outdoing us. It's a tiny ballpark with "art deco" architecture. Sure the BOK Center is awesome, but the Riverwalk, while nice, is in Jenks, and we are talking about a 4-inch deep river.

The casino is something OKC cannot help. It is on Indian lands and Tulsa is surrounded by it. And a Toby Keith bar? We already have one.

Not quite outdoing us, but Tulsa is definitely mmoving forward. OKC has a ton of plans ready to go... Core 2 Shore, Asian District enhancements, Devon Tower, downtown residential developments...

That being said, OKC is not trying to outdo Tulsa, but is working to compete with larger cities.

[dcsooner]

OKC needs to fully develop downtown into a vibrant, 24 hour destination with serious retail and other attractions BEFORE moving on to Core to Shore. DT OKC is not the vibrant hub of other major city downtowns, OKC needs to focus there before trying to enlarge DT's reach. The only component of CtoS that needs to be done is the park which is desperately needed to improve the quality of life in and around DT.

[kevinpate]

What would you place in the existing DT area before moving forward with the dreams I see laid out for the Core to Shore area. Isn't that where a lot of the desired for a 24 hour city will more likely materialize?

[BDP]

Honestly, those are actually examples of Tulsa catching up with OKC. I don't want to take anything away from those projects, but OKC already has something that is at least equal to each of those individual projects and already has plans to improve on more, like in the case of the arenas.

It is a good example, however, that no matter how much we improve our city, others will continue to do so as well. I am one who is glad that Tulsa is finally doing things to improve its community assets as I think it helps the state as a whole. However, it shows that as we continue to try and elevate Oklahoma City to the next tier, the tier we are in continues to raise the bar across the nation as well.

[Jesseda]

the hard rock casino is on the edge of tulsa, heck might as well add riverwind to the casino/hotels here, as well as remington, firelake, and newcastle casino as well, its cute that people are trying to compare tulsa to okc, its like baby brother looking up to big brother and trying to show him he can be cool

[drumsncode]

The renovations to the RiverParks Trail running along Riverside Drive between 11th and 71st (possibly more), are astounding. If you're a walker, runner, or bicyclist, that trail is pure Heaven. Experience it once on a good, crisp day, and you'll be hooked for life.

[dcsooner]

Kevinpate,
What I am saying is that the downtown area of OKC has endured busts and booms over the years. The DT area needs more housing, retail establishments, outside of eating (which are good). Most large cities like here in DC have available options past 9-10PM for people to remain connected downtown. Newsstands, coffee shops, major retailers, grocers, theatres. OKC has elements of all these things but the layout of the city center is staid and needs a serious update. The office vacancy rate needs to be absorbed downtown and more neighborhoods need to be built and filled with people. DT is currently a 8am-5Pm place, except maybe on game or concert nights. Almost ALL major cities I have visited have a major department store or two downtown. More sculptures, more park space, more lighting. Too many storefronts are DARK after 6PM. OKC needs to develop some character, by encouraging different cultures (Indian, Pakastani, African, etc). to come to and establish a presence in the city), diversity is what makes a city exciting!

[Jesseda]

agree with dcsooner, only thing thats has life past 6p.m in downtown okc area is bricktown, i think some major department stores will help bring people to downtown later in the evening, also a well needed grocery store

[metro]

Jesseda and dcsooner, you need to get out more then, because there is plenty more to downtown than the overhyped "Bricktown." I've lived, owned property and worked in Downtown OKC for 3 years now and there is plenty going on after 5pm. Do we need more, absolutely. Automobile Alley has activity at night with IAO gallery, CD Warehouse, Coffee Slingers, the Bike Shops (have Wed. night bike rides), Iguana Lounge, Sara Sara, Red Prime, OhSoBlush, Cricket Wireless, and others being added. MidTown/Plaza Court area has activity at night, so does the arts district, downtown library, and CBD hotels. Deep Deuce is coming alive at night with several restaurants now and Sage opening up any day. Get out and enjoy the other parts of our downtown please!

[Jesseda]

i do get out, i just dont like walking arounda dark downtown with very little people around, kinda spooky, and a little bit dangerous. But for you metro, I will go look around.

[OKCMallen]

Jesseda and dcsooner, you need to get out more then, because there is plenty more to downtown than the overhyped "Bricktown." I've lived, owned property and worked in Downtown OKC for 3 years now and there is plenty going on after 5pm. Do we need more, absolutely. Automobile Alley has activity at night with IAO gallery, CD Warehouse, Coffee Slingers, the Bike Shops (have Wed. night bike rides), Iguana Lounge, Sara Sara, Red Prime, OhSoBlush, Cricket Wireless, and others being added. MidTown/Plaza Court area has activity at night, so does the arts district, downtown library, and CBD hotels. Deep Deuce is coming alive at night with several restaurants now and Sage opening up any day. Get out and enjoy the other parts of our downtown please!

Metro has a point. Maybe the CBD will just never be the place to hang out...which is fine if we use and enjoy Midtown, the Deuce, etc...

[BDP]

I agree. It's not that unusual for a business or financial district to go dark at night. As long as there are other vibrant districts downtown for night life, then I don't think it's much of a problem. And with Bricktown and the other emerging districts that Metro pointed out, there is actually quite a bit to do downtown at night and it seems to be getting better every year, which should continue as residency begins to increase as well.

[okcpulse]

I for one can lend testimony to downtown Houston in that it has to be one of the largest cities with a quiet downtown at night. After Video Games live in downtown Houston's PAC, it was a tad creepy walking back to the parking garage.

[krisb]

The Ford Center will be just as nice as the BOK center once the renovations are complete. Also, Core to Shore is an attempt to upgrade and expand the livable areas of downtown to encourage growth in housing, retail, and all of those things. The park brings new quality of life, which will in turn, bring more people and investment downtown.

[kevinpate]

dcsooner, just a ditto on metro's notes.

I don't live downtown, or even in town, and I don't spend many evenings anywhere in OKC. However, of his excellent suggestion list (thansk for that metro), the only one that was a "wait, so I know about this" moment was OhsoBlush. The rest I've either visited or heard good things about from others who have.

Is the absolute heart of the central business district quiet? Definitely post 6 pm, but in my admittedly limited experience, that's really not so unusual. Yet between the arts area, high brow and not so high brow, B-town, Auto Alley, Deep Deuce, improvements at the river for young and not so young alike, there are many offerings already in play if one has the proximity, time and inclination to partake to his/her advantage.

Seeing folks making plans for more mini venues and not so mini venues to the south seems a more natural progression at this point than it did the first time or three I heard of a large park or a mongo ferris wheel down that way.

[Karried]

When they get a professional football team, then they will have us beat .... Go OKC Thunder!

[nik4411]

Can someone clear up what it is that people refer to as midtown in OKC? I hear/see it used but am unsure what area it is describing.

[metro]

nik, I refer to MidTown as a much broader area than what most people "think" of MidTown. It basically encompasses NW 4th North to NW 23rd and from Classen to Broadway. The heart of MidTown is the Plaza Court area right by St. Anthony's hospital at 10th and Walker. If you haven't been down to the area in a year or more, you really need to get down there. I imagine after the economy picks up again, we'll have what's called "Walker Ave. District". Just my two cents...but hey I'm no Kelly Ogle.

[nik4411]

Cool, thanks for the reply metro. Yes I know what area you are talking about, now I know what to picture when people speak of Midtown OKC.

[Platemaker]

nik, I refer to MidTown as a much broader area than what most people "think" of MidTown. It basically encompasses NW 4th North to NW 23rd and from Classen to Broadway. The heart of MidTown is the Plaza Court area right by St. Anthony's hospital at 10th and Walker. If you haven't been down to the area in a year or more, you really need to get down there. I imagine after the economy picks up again, we'll have what's called "Walker Ave. District". Just my two cents...but hey I'm no Kelly Ogle.

I agree with your boundaries.... but "Walker Ave. District" c'mon metro if you had your way ever other block would be a new district... just like SOSA...grasping.

Now are we all sure the T in Midtown is capitalized

[jbrown84]

Now are we all sure the T in Midtown is capitalized

No. Only metro does that.

Metro has a point. Maybe the CBD will just never be the place to hang out...which is fine if we use and enjoy Midtown, the Deuce, etc...

Yeah I think we will see it improve some in the CBD, because of the hotel presence. A 24-hour drug store and a 24-hour restaurant would be nice. But yeah, every city has a business district that largely closes down after 6. The districts all around downtown are growing, some at different stages than others.


As far as the Tulsa comparison goes, I agree this is more of a matter of them catching up. We are already starting renovations on our arena. As is, it is definitely not as good a venue as BOK, but we built it along with a ballpark, a new Civic Center, a new library, a canal, and river dams, so I'd say we got more bang for our buck in the progress and momentum department.

Riverwalk is just another lifestyle center. Nothing to really get excited about.

The casino is not really that much nicer than our suburban casinos (FireLake and Riverwind, I mean). I don't think the Hard Rock brand is that special. Kinda played out.

I'm glad they are finally making some improvements, and I would never want us to rest on our laurels, but look at all that's happening:

-new NBA team is extremely successful
-Ford Center renovations start next month
-American Indian Cultural Center
-Oklahoma River has been catapulted to international status as a rowing venue, leading to a US Rowing center and a new boathouse row.
-Film Row catching on
-massive influx of urban housing
-Oklahoma City Museum of Art in less than 10 years has become a major regional presence
-Devon Tower
-Myriad Gardens improvements
-revival along 23rd Street in Uptown, with the Tower Theatre undergoing restoration
-Core to Shore (including a new convention center, a new central park, and more)
-Academy of Contemporary Music opening in Bricktown
-Classen Curve


Things seem a little stagnant right now because of the economy, but I guarantee you things are stalling and being postponed everywhere, including Tulsa.

[kevinpate]

> "Walker Ave. District"

Can we subdivide it further and have NoWalk, WeWalk SoWalk and EWok, the cutesy but somewhat rougher side of the district, where they rarely shave and make liberal use of the force to bring about change.

[metro]

I agree with your boundaries.... but "Walker Ave. District" c'mon metro if you had your way ever other block would be a new district... just like SOSA...grasping.

Now are we all sure the T in Midtown is capitalized

No, I wouldn't have it that way, but mark my words, within 10 years there will be "Walker Ave District" as a subdistrict within MidTown. Also, if you go to the actual MidTown association website, they have several "districts" within MidTown. I would call them subdistricts, but hey sorry if you have a problem with the other districts, maybe you should take it up with the actual association in charge of MidTown. http://www.midtownokc.com/

Sorry, I can't take the credit for MidTown (capitalized T), as Banta, MidTown Renaissance and others were doing that far before I.

http://www.midtownrenaissance.com/

[OKCMallen]

The only area Tulsa is outdoing us is Casinos directly on the borders of and withint their city limits.