Process to become an international airport

[Timshel]

The new Amazon HQ thread got me thinking - does anyone know the process required to become an international airport and the likelihood of it ever happening at Will Rogers? While I'm sure infrastructure changes would be necessary (longer/stronger runway(s), customs, etc.), are there also significant regulatory, political, and/or market hindrances that make this even more unlikely, especially for an airport that probably will never become much of a hub? For example, I doubt existing international airports are keen on any new competition and I can't really see the economics working for the airlines with DFW and other international hubs relatively close to OKC/Tulsa. However, I'm just curious whether this has ever been seriously considered by the city/state and the forces that could/would prevent it from happening, especially as there are, based on a very quick Google search, a number of smaller cities than OKC that have international airports.

[shawnw]

I mean, we ARE about to build an international terminal, per the airport thread...

[Timshel]

^

Wasn't aware. That's great. Maybe the process has already started. I just imagine there has to be a regulatory process and that it would only happen if the powers-that-be at WW and the airlines believe there will be sufficient demand but I don't know enough about either of those things to know how feasible becoming an international airport would be.

[oklip955]

I thought the name was Will Rodgers World Airport. Wasn't there a few flights a week to Mexico a few years ago?

[BG918]

The #1 issue is demand for international flights. When you can only sustain a 1x daily nonstop to NYC, the largest city in the country, that doesn't bode well for filling planes to anywhere outside the U.S. except maybe a Mexican beach resort like Cancun on a seasonal basis.

With its central location it's fairly easy to get to DFW and ORD where you can fly to the major cities in South America and Europe, or to LAX or SFO for Asia flights.

[Timshel]

The #1 issue is demand for international flights. When you can only sustain a 1x daily nonstop to NYC, the largest city in the country, that doesn't bode well for filling planes to anywhere outside the U.S. except maybe a Mexican beach resort like Cancun on a seasonal basis.

With its central location it's fairly easy to get to DFW and ORD where you can fly to the major cities in South America and Europe, or to LAX or SFO for Asia flights.

I was afraid this would be the biggest roadblock, because at least in the short term there isn't much that can be done to fix it. And for a while while I was living in NYC they didn't even have it year round.

I always wonder what would have happened and how different our situation would currently be (as a complete hypothetical), if 50-60 years ago a large international airport, or at least the bones for one, would have been built in Stroud (or somewhere similarly located along I-44) that would serve both OKC and Tulsa and if it could have turned into a major midwest hub after deregulation. Probably never would have worked for a host of reasons I'm not aware of - but is something I've always thought about.

[traxx]

I thought the name was Will Rodgers World Airport.

When they named it they just thought it would be fun to say Will Wogers World Aipowt.

[rte66man]

Somewhat ironically, both of our airports in OKC are named after people who were killed in a plane crash. The same crash as a matter of fact.

[TheTravellers]

I'm pretty sure WRWA has a customs office, which would imply internationality, if not in the actual name...

[gopokes88]

Do we really need a thread for this?

[traxx]

Somewhat ironically, both of our airports in OKC are named after people who were killed in a plane crash. The same crash as a matter of fact.

And on top of that, they want you to go to a terminal once you get to the airport named after a guy that died in a plane crash. If it's terminal, I'm not sure I wanna go.

[Timshel]

Do we really need a thread for this?

It seemed that discussion of an element lacking in Oklahoma that has a potentially significant impact on OKC's development (even if it is not a significant factor in why Amazon would not ultimately build a second HQ in OKC), not to mention the quality of life of OKC's residents, that operates in a highly complex industry and marketplace, and where the general public does not have much knowledge on the process but where a small proportion of the population does (at least a handful of whom seem to post regularly on OKCTalk), didn't seem like a horrible idea on a website dedicated to discussing, among other things, OKC's economic development and transportation infrastructure. No worries if you disagree, but the more efficient approach would seem to be to move on and read/contribute to something you do think is worthy of a thread instead of posting a comment that does nothing to further the discussion/education of OKCTalk's posters and readers.

[Bellaboo]

I thought the name was Will Rodgers World Airport. Wasn't there a few flights a week to Mexico a few years ago?

Yes, they had charter flights direct to Cancun, but on the way back it stopped in San Antonio to go through customs and then you'd re-board and fly back to WRWA.

[Rover]

Two major problems ... lack of population (especially with means and interest to travel and do business internationally), and we are deep inside the US and not close to foreign destinations. We have no natural relationships with any foreign city.

[shawnw]

we are deep inside the US and not close to foreign destinations

I'm not sure this part matters because Chicago. Their list of non-stop international destinations in quite far places is not short.

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...TLnonstops.pdf

[Timshel]

Two major problems ... lack of population (especially with means and interest to travel and do business internationally), and we are deep inside the US and not close to foreign destinations. We have no natural relationships with any foreign city.

Thank you. Wanted to see whether it was these types of demographic/market issues or whether, even if we arguably had the market, there would still be roadblocks (e.g., CBP regulating and limiting the number of points of entry across the US, regulations limiting whether an airport is allowed to operate international flights, etc.). Was especially curious given Wikipedia's list of international airports, which, while I'm sure its not totally accurate, listed enough cities smaller than OKC to get me wondering.

[OUman]

... we are deep inside the US and not close to foreign destinations.

I understand where you're coming from but location in relation to foreign destinations is not an inidcator of whether or not you'll have a true international airport. Look down south about 200 miles and my point is proven. DFW is basically deep within the country and has the distinction of not only having 57 nonstop international destinations but also one of the few airports in the world of having nonstops to more than 200 cities. This includes daily nonstop flights to Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Seoul, Tokyo and several European cities.

Look at Austin - in recent years, it has gained nonstops to London (with BA and now Norwegian), Frankfurt (with Condor although on a seasonal basis - though the flights were so well received last year that it increased the months of operation this year, and will be keeping the extended period next year), Mexico City (with Aeromexico), Guadalajara (with Volaris), Toronto (with Air Canada Express). Not to mention seasonal service to/from Cancun and Los Cabos also in Mexico.

Other cities like Indianapolis, Nashville, and New Orleans which did not have international service are also gaining momentum now. The common theme is partly, as you pointed out, the support for international flights in terms of passengers and yield (profits) and major business/tourist ties at least enough to support a daily flight to London or another major overseas hub. It also depends on how much potential there is for a route to develop and grow.

When Austin got its first major international flight to/from London, an average of 90 passengers a day were found to be using other carriers to get there. BA started the flight with a 787-8. The route had great potential and this has been proven in the load factors and especially the yields BA is making. For a while, the route was flown with a 777-200ER, but is now flown with a 787-9, still larger than what it started with. The flight is very popular and is still gaining passengers. In the years afterwards, Austin has secured additional international nonstops. It of coursse, helps that Austin is now a major tourist destination, hosts SXSW, hosts the U.S. Grand Prix, among other things. And has a booming I.T. industry, which definitely adds to business traffic.

[shawnw]

However much we don't like the "cowboys and indians" image of Oklahoma, it would be academically interesting if someone would just test non-stop flights from here to Japan or China for 1 spring/summer season. I happened to be at Ann's Chicken Fry a few months back when a busload of Japanese tourists got off and filled the place up. I presumed they were touring Route 66.

[okcitian]

I'm sure an OKC to Mexico City route would be possible. I go there frequently and typically see the same people take the same connecting flight with me to Mexico (Whether in DFW or HOU). I know there a too much congestion currently at mexico city's airport but with the new airport opening next year or 2019 that wouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure how many people from OKC do business with Mexico City, but since the city is having a more relevant economy, i could see there be more of a need. Also, there is at least 50 million people within a 4 hour drive outside of Mexico City and a lot of people from OKC who visit their friends or family in the central part of Mexico.

[Snowman]

The new Amazon HQ thread got me thinking - does anyone know the process required to become an international airport and the likelihood of it ever happening at Will Rogers? While I'm sure infrastructure changes would be necessary (longer/stronger runway(s), customs, etc.), are there also significant regulatory, political, and/or market hindrances that make this even more unlikely, especially for an airport that probably will never become much of a hub? For example, I doubt existing international airports are keen on any new competition and I can't really see the economics working for the airlines with DFW and other international hubs relatively close to OKC/Tulsa. However, I'm just curious whether this has ever been seriously considered by the city/state and the forces that could/would prevent it from happening, especially as there are, based on a very quick Google search, a number of smaller cities than OKC that have international airports.

We have had 747s and 777 land here plenty of times before, though possibly a larger number for being an alternate in case of bad weather at DFW than having a reason to come here, so the runways should not be much of an issue. Plus we likely would not need the largest jets between us and most likely a Canadian, Mexican or European hub anyway.

Though the International in name is at best an indication of services provided by the airport, it is more up to the airport what it wants to name itself, it can also entirely be an aspiration of the airport will be one day. WRWA is listed as having some level of customs, though I am not sure if it may need to expand that for regularly scheduled flights, for comparison Tulsa International Airport looks to have roughly the same level of customs service as WRWA.

As for smaller airports than use having international service. Many of those may be either in small countries that domestic hubs may not make much sense, they may be on a border thus the international flight is more like a regional flight to us, they may be an island nation where that is the primary route in or out of the country, and/or possibly heavily subsidized as a national priority.

[BG918]

I'm sure an OKC to Mexico City route would be possible. I go there frequently and typically see the same people take the same connecting flight with me to Mexico (Whether in DFW or HOU). I know there a too much congestion currently at mexico city's airport but with the new airport opening next year or 2019 that wouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure how many people from OKC do business with Mexico City, but since the city is having a more relevant economy, i could see there be more of a need. Also, there is at least 50 million people within a 4 hour drive outside of Mexico City and a lot of people from OKC who visit their friends or family in the central part of Mexico.

Once they finish the new airport in MEX and become more of a legitimate Latin American hub then maybe. It would likely have to be Aeromexico or Volaris. What is the PDEW between OKC and MEX?

Besides a seasonal to Cancun I think Toronto is the most likely option for international. Huge airport with tons of connections. Not sure on the O&D which would be important but I could see Air Canada Express running a 1x CRJ190 someday. Canada is Oklahoma's largest intl trade partner.

[catch22]

Keep in mind that most Canadian cities have US Customs pre-clearance and thus do not require any customs presence at the arrival airport. So a customs handling facility in OKC will not make it any easier for Canadian service than it is today.

I could see a weekly Cancun flight to start, maybe 2x weekly in peak season, once our facility opens in the expanded concourse.

[gopokes88]

It seemed that discussion of an element lacking in Oklahoma that has a potentially significant impact on OKC's development (even if it is not a significant factor in why Amazon would not ultimately build a second HQ in OKC), not to mention the quality of life of OKC's residents, that operates in a highly complex industry and marketplace, and where the general public does not have much knowledge on the process but where a small proportion of the population does (at least a handful of whom seem to post regularly on OKCTalk), didn't seem like a horrible idea on a website dedicated to discussing, among other things, OKC's economic development and transportation infrastructure. No worries if you disagree, but the more efficient approach would seem to be to move on and read/contribute to something you do think is worthy of a thread instead of posting a comment that does nothing to further the discussion/education of OKCTalk's posters and readers.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...+world+airport

We've talked about this many many times before. You are adding nothing to Okctalk by creating another thread instead of posting your question in a pre-established thread. So if you wanna get all preachy and high and mighty at me go for it, but all this tread does is add clutter.

[chuck5815]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...+world+airport

We've talked about this many many times before. You are adding nothing to Okctalk by creating another thread instead of posting your question in a pre-established thread. So if you wanna get all preachy and high and mighty at me go for it, but all this tread does is add clutter.

+1

[Timshel]

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.ph...+world+airport

We've talked about this many many times before. You are adding nothing to Okctalk by creating another thread instead of posting your question in a pre-established thread. So if you wanna get all preachy and high and mighty at me go for it, but all this tread does is add clutter.

I didn't realize you and I have talked about this many many times before, since I've never interacted with you in my life. Your initial comment seemed to question the validity of the topic of conversation - to which I gave a reasonably well thought out reply - but it sounds like that is not what you meant. Fair enough, but perhaps being more precise/less vague in your writing will help to avoid confusion and will also reduce clutter.

I'm done bickering. Pete, feel free to merge this thread with the general WRWA thread and delete any of my posts that don't add to the conversation.