Why Vote No - Video

[DavidGlover]

My presentation and questions to the Mayor and Council about the Ford Center Improvements. At the end you can tell how much they liked it.

[Midtowner]

My presentation and questions to the Mayor and Council about the Ford Center Improvements. At the end you can tell how much they liked it.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tctmao6rJxE&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tctmao6rJxE&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

fail.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Not me...I'm a WINNER.

And I'm good at the Youtube.

[betts]

He's again using that ridiculous $500 per voter argument. Since he's actually backed off on that at other sites before this video, he's clearly not telling the truth when he makes that statement.

For a person to generate $500 in a penny sales tax in the 15 months we have this tax, each taxpayer would have to spend $50,000 on food, clothing and amenities. Since our median income is only $35,000 that's pretty much impossible. He completely fails to add the fact that we have visitors from out of state that pay sales tax, people from the Village, Nichols Hills, Deer Creek, Edmond, Bethany, Midwest City, Del City, Yukon and El Reno (probably forgot some, but you get the picture) do shop in OKC and pay sales tax as well. It's incorrect, alarmist data.

Here's an interesting link to some info about his favorite author too. I don't know much about this guy, but when I was researching him, I found the following: davidcayjohnstonewatch.blogspot.com. While I do not necessarily endorse the political views of this writer, it is interesting that this guy is fudgin some of his bio. Could he be fudging anything else? I don't know, but where's there's one falsehood there are frequently more.

[Doug Loudenback]

David, it took me a few times to get it right, also ... here's how to embed YouTube video clips in this forum's software ...

In the "advanced" page, you will see a YouTube icon at the far right end. Click that icon. It places a pair (a beginning and ending) code in your message which looks like this ... {YT}{/YT} ... but with square and not curly braces. Then, type in (or paste if you've already copied it) ONLY the file name between the pair of codes. For your video, that would be tctmao6rJxE&rel=1 (no quotes).

Welcome to the forum!

[solitude]

That was extremely rude of the Mayor to not even thank this man for his time to be involved and share his feelings even though they may disagree. This is typical, by the way, of Mick Cornett when you disagree with him. He has a quick temper and doesn't like to be crossed. It's all back-slapping and everybody is a pal when you agree with Mick, but dare disagree and you, "just don't get it." You would think his past as a sportscaster and his current full-time job as a sports film producer would have given him better people skills with those with whom he may disagree. That quick, "Adjourned!" at the close of the citizen's remarks was a slap in the face of that taxpayer.

Well, I must say, the guy made many of the points I made before ultimately deciding to vote "YES". I think it's in the best interest of OKC for an improved Ford Center. The "practice facility" is a joke - but I'll pinch my nose while I vote.

VOTE YES ON MARCH 4th!

[Karried]

Some of this might be a valid argument if we actually had a huge variety of other entertainment options in OKC.

Since the Hornets left, I haven't been to Bricktown.

I went to nearly every game when they were here.

We made an evening of it and that included dinner, parking and drinks.

I'm betting Bricktown misses the Hornets as much as we all do.

[betts]

I also object, Mr. Glover, to your assurance that the Sonics are coming to Oklahoma City even if we don't pass this arena tax. I'd love to see one statement (since the arena tax was announced) by anyone.....David Stern, any other owners, the Sonics' owners.....saying that is the case. I cannot think of any logical reason the Sonics would be allowed to leave Seattle, where they won't build a new arena, and move to Oklahoma City, a city a third it's size, with a two year history of nicely supporting the Hornets...not over the top support.... if we won't even refurbish an $89 million arena. Does anyone have a reassuring explanation?
Seattle: won't build arena, so losing team
Oklahoma City: won't even refurbish low budget arena. Does anyone honestly think I can write, "so getting team" in that sentence?

[OSUFan]

You can really not be that dense. I have no problem with people haveing a different view point on this but at least get your facts right.

1.) Of course if Seattle loses the Sonics it will have little to negative effect on the economy. They still have the two teams left. I'm so sick of this arguement. You can't compare OKC to places like Houston or Seattle who have 2-3 teams.

2.) I may be stupid but isn't this a sales tax and not a property tax? That means the tax burden does not just fall on the people of OKC. So your math is way off. It is not $500 per person or famil, not even close. More like $60. You want to talk about people trying to mislead the facts.

3.)You show me anywhere David Stern says the move to OKC is inevitable. You can't find it because he didn't he say it. He just said they were leaving Seattle.

4.) It is not up to the ownership group to approve the move to OKC. It is up to the NBA now. Clay and his friends have done all they can do.

5.) OKC has recently passed over $1 billion in bonds in the last 5 months to schools, streets and bridges.

If you actually threw out some facts you might have a better case.

[OSUFan]

The guy threw out a ton of misinformation. What is the Mayor supposed to do? Why thank you for spewing BS for five minutes. Maybe if the guy had some facts.

[Midtowner]

5.) OKC has recently passed over $1 billion in bonds in the last 5 months to schools, streets and bridges.

Not to mention $75 million for the nebulous purpose of "economic development" with an interest rate of up to 10% authorized on th ebonds.

-- That issue, prop 11, passed with near 85% of the vote and nary a word from "concerned citizen" David Glover.

[solitude]

The guy threw out a ton of misinformation. What is the Mayor supposed to do? Why thank you for spewing BS for five minutes. Maybe if the guy had some facts.

If you think misinformation is a one-way street - you are wrong. Ask Jim Tolbert about his campaign for Mayor of Oklahoma City against Mick Cornett. Then get back with me about misinformation.

I am voting "YES". But, people, there will be many voting "NO" on principle. The principle that the rich - do indeed - get free rides on the backs of taxpayers and it's time to stop. These pro sports teams are some of the worst.

Why am I voting "YES"? Simple: I think Oklahoma City can best move forward with a pro basketball team and I want to see that happen. Blackmail or not - I want an NBA team and as sorry as it is - this is the way the game is played.

ON EDIT:
The attacks on Glover and those opposed to this is unbelievable. Those of you shooting the messenger and crying "misinformation" (while the NBA holds cities hostage with lies and threats) should be ashamed. The reporter that wrote the book referenced by Glover is a renowned investigative reporter and is hated by the far-right conservatives. Much of this is TRUE folks and as I said, I will have to pinch my nose to vote "YES" - but I care about OKC and am afraid that the mob-like tactics of the NBA would shut us out if we dared buck them. That may be a sorry reason, but I know that if we want an NBA team - these are the games we play. If we want a college football coach like Bob Stoops - at a public university - we must pony up millions to get him. Sports at all levels has become an opiate of the people - enjoy our games while the world goes to Hell in a handbasket. This is simply not as black and white as so many of you make it. The intolerance shown for the gray is disconcerting.

[Doug Loudenback]

I have to go with Solitude on this. It is entirely possible, even reasonable, that good people with differ about this vote, and, from what little I've seen of him (last night and on the Council video) my perception is that he is sincere, presents his case politely, and is rational in the way he does, unlike some of the nut cases we have seen. While I certainly do strongly disagree with many of his points (for reasons which have been rather completely stated in other posts), little need, actually no need, exists to ridicule him for publicly expressing himself. That did take some guts before an audience which would not likely agree with what he had to say.

Not to mention that Mr. Glover is not a "phantom" ... his identity is straightforwardly made. He doesn't even have a website.

What does it matter that he may not have taken public positions on other matters? That has nothing to do with the merit or demerit of the issues that the voters will decide on March 4. He has one vote. So do I. So do you.

He might even be capable of persuasion (like Solitude) if he isn't stoned for having and expressing his present views. That's how I see it, anyway.

[wsucougz]

I agree with Solitude. I think it's important for OKC, but if I still lived in Seattle I would have voted to smack these guys to the curb. I dislike the NBA for so many reasons, primarily the quality of play, but it really does put us on the map, because apparently someone still watches it. Too bad we couldn't get a baseball team.

[DavidGlover]

Thanks, Doug on how to imbed, good info.

[wsucougz]

Thanks, Doug on how to imbed, good info.

I'm surprised at how tech savvy Doug is, I mean the kid is not exactly a spring chicken.

Sorry, Doug:

[Pete]

Regarding embedding YouTube videos, all you have to do is hit the "go advanced" button, choose the YouTube icon from the menu, and then paste all the characters of the video after the "=" sign in the URL.

We added this code a few months ago.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm surprised at how tech savvy Doug is, I mean the kid is not exactly a spring chicken.

Sorry, Doug:

So true! But very well seasoned!

[metro]

haha ^, you know we love ya Doug. And you do a good job.

Doug while I agree with you that we should respect David Glover's difference of opinion, I do disagree somewhat and don't think he was as respectful as he could have been last night (I haven't watched the city council video yet). He did have an argumentative tone when first trying to address his questions and he got a little steamed when asking Roy questions, but I think when he realized and was told by someone that it wasn't a debate (he was challenging Roy and Mayor Cornett to a debate when Cornett wasn't even there), and that he could tell most people were in favor of the vote, he calmed down a little, and I can give him credit for calming down and knowing his limits on not to push it to far in that setting.

[Doug Loudenback]

I agree with your comments, Metro. It was pretty apparent to him, I'd suppose, that he and the young lady with whom I engaged in discourse were in the distinct minority. For the most part, Mr. Williams was preaching to the choir, so to speak. Were I in his position, I might have been a little testy, too ... oh ... I forgot, I was a little testy, myself!

[metro]

I just felt that when he started off, he started off on the wrong foot and had a little harsh tone to his questions. Had he started off with a nicer tone, the tone of the whole conversation might have been different. He purposely was in the front of the crowd and started off kind of harsh. Of course he should have expected Roy to be Pro-Ford Center, that's his job as President and CEO of the Chamber and as Roy said "a professional in economic development" (I thought Roy made an excellent rebuttal on that note). I'm all for engaging in intellectual debate on both sides, but so far, I haven't seen much (and it appears most here on OKCTalk and elsewhere agree) that on the oppositon side, the data doesn't accurately support their claims.

[bombermwc]

Sorry DavidGLover, you won't find any support here. Crappy arguements that don't stand. Apparently he had his head in the sand the last few years and didn't hear comments from Day 1 of the Hornets.

1- We are at the top of the list with other cities that have much better facilities. When a place like KC with a more proven base has a better facility, we have to do something to stand out and level the ground.

2 - From Day 1 of the Hornet visit, they told use we needed to make improvements to the Ford Center. It was a nice place to visit, but if they had lived here, we would still be doing the vote.

3 - This isn't just for the NBA. Even if they don't come to OKC, it's still a good thing. This is exactlly why the Ford Center was built the way it was. It was intended to be improved later. The actual arena bowl itself is only 1 part of the overall facility. If you don't recognize that, you might as well just stop now.

4 - As someone already said, the impact isnt only limited to OKC. ALL of the suburbs are affected and all of their residents should be considered. Unless of course you think only people from the city of okc attend events at the Ford Center.

[OSUFan]

I'm all for people having a different opinion about things on principle. I get it, especially on this. I just don't like it when people act like one side is being less than honest then throwing out a bunch of information that is flat out wrong.

[metro]

well said bombermwc, that's like saying only people from Arlington visit Texas Rangers games, or only people in Irving visit Dallas Cowboys games or only people who live in Dallas proper attend Dallas Mavericks or Stars (NHL) games. We all know that is heresay. It's obvious people from all over DFW attend all those games as well as all over Texas, Oklahoma and even other parts of the country attend the games.

Heck, I know plenty of people from OKC and Tulsa that visit all the big leagues Dallas has to offer. It would be nice if we could finally keep more of that money and development that comes with it in our OWN state.

[BDP]

I think the mayor and the campaign to pass this initiative brought this on themselves. By marketing this as a big NBA push, they invited this kind of criticism. But the reality is that these improvements are needed to at least keep the kind of events we have grown used to in the last five years. People need to realize that the rest of the country doesn't move as slow as Oklahoma and if we want to keep up with the competition we have to to continue to improve our assets. In a few months the Ford Center won't even be the nicest arena in the state in terms of amenities and it is getting its ass kicked regionally, let alone nationally. The inital 96 million or so got us a few years of events, but I just don't see us getting the same types of events without these improvements. The upside is that I also think the improvements will net us even better events, as well.