Is there room for the NFL in Oklahoma?

[Laramie]

An NFL team in Tulsa or Oklahoma City?

Mayor Mick Cornett wanted to put some type of stadium on the MAPS III short-list; however, it came in at number 10.

The success of the Oklahoma City Thunder has certainly turned heads and have eyes taking a second look at OKC.

Here is a report listing Oklahoma City as a potential future home for the NFL:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...pand-to/page/7

1. Los Angeles
2. San Antonio
3. A second team in Los Angeles?
4. Toronto
5. Oklahoma City

Is it possible that MAPS IV (2017 momentum) will include a stadium which could become the future home of an NFL team? Currently there are not enough dollars to support a second Fab Four franchise in OKC; however, who knows the 2020 future for an NFL franchise in one of the Sooner States top two cities (Oklahoma City, Tulsa).

1. What type of facility would we need?
2. What are our projections for 2020?
3. Could Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium be used as a temporary home?

We didn't expect the New Orleans Hornets to make Oklahoma City our temporary home--their temporary relocation brought out the best in Oklahoma.

Is Oklahoma City or Tulsa poised to take the next step?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

[dmoor82]

2020 or 2030,by then maybe!The way OKC is growing it might be possible by then.Tulsa's best bet is the NHL in the future.

[Hawk405359]

I don't think it's feasible by 2020. I think a city of OKC's size can support a pro team, but I don't think we should be anticipating the city to be able to support multiple teams as of yet. I don't think our population is really high enough to support it, and I don't think the money is there as a whole to support it.

[Snowman]

On #3 they have used College stadiums as interim solutions, many college stadiums have larger capacities. They just generally do not have as nice of amenities, number of suits and related income generators. The Vikings may still be in a college stadium if the work from their roof being damaged by snow last month has not been finished.

[ou48A]

No… not in my life time.
I will actively oppose any effort to bring the NFL to the OKC area.

[SoonerDave]

In a word: No.

Lots of folks who have seen the success of the NBA have made the errant extrapolation that an NFL franchise would be just as successful in this football-crazed state. Problem is that the financial underpinnings for an NFL franchise are close to $1 billion by the time you start thinking about a franchise and a stadium.

First, neither Oklahoma collegiate football venue could be used for an NFL franchise, primarily due to the fact that beer and alcohol sales are illegal in either venue (Norman or Stillwater). It'd take an act of the Legislature to change it. Beyond that, I suspect the close proximity to I-35 would make Owen Field the more favorable choice, but I'm not at all sure OU would be willing to take on the wear and tear of eight home games on top of the five or six hosted annually right now - to say nothing of the logistics involved in flipping the stadium from a Saturday game to a Sunday game on a nearly-overnight basis.

Believe me, I'm a football-first guy, and I think there was a chance to do it about 20 years ago, but we let it slip by. Not going to happen here for many, many moons, if ever. Heard an old story that back in the late 80's, when the Dallas Cowboys were really, really bad, that the Gaylords were engineering a plan to move them from Irving to a new stadium to be built west of I-35 in Norman, but that obviously didn't happen...

[NickFiggins]

I
First, neither Oklahoma collegiate football venue could be used for an NFL franchise, primarily due to the fact that beer and alcohol sales are illegal in either venue (Norman or Stillwater). It'd take an act of the Legislature to change it.

To quote Gundy "thats not true" in 2003 OU actually sold alcohol on club level. It would merely take act of Board of Regents if even that. Also, the legislature would likely bend over for the NFL in the same way they did w/ quality job incentives for NBA.

[ljbab728]

There was a long discussion about the same thing a few months ago.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26882&page=1

[dankrutka]

This was discussed and there was an excellent study showing that a city needs about 1 million people per pro team to support them adequately (which is why cities like Denver and KC were overstretched). 1 team is perfect for OKC. An MLS team in Tulsa would possbily work since Tulsa has almost 1 million people and no significant (not counting WNBA) pro team that is a far better bet.

[venture]

There was a long discussion about the same thing a few months ago.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26882&page=1

It seems we have this thread every 3 or 4 months here. Search feature is amazing. Of course the OP even actively participated in it as well. So I don't see why we are rehashing things.

[dcsooner]

2020 or 2030,by then maybe!The way OKC is growing it might be possible by then.Tulsa's best bet is the NHL in the future.

Agree with this. IF OKC continues and/or improves its upward trajectory towards improved quality of life and population growth toward the 2-2.3M range then maybe, but that's a ways off.

[SoonerDave]

To quote Gundy "thats not true" in 2003 OU actually sold alcohol on club level. It would merely take act of Board of Regents if even that. Also, the legislature would likely bend over for the NFL in the same way they did w/ quality job incentives for NBA.

Nope. There was a huge stink when OU announced it would not sell alcohol in the suites because of state law. Alcohol can be served by private entities supplying their own stock. Several folks who had contributed supposedly threatened to sue, claiming OU had represented that alcohol would be available. Bottom line, no alcohol sales.

[Bunty]

Is alcohol allowed to be sold in the Texas college stadiums? I would automatically assume, though, it's not allowed in Baylor's stadium.

[Jersey Boss]

An NFL team in Tulsa or Oklahoma City?

Mayor Mick Cornett wanted to put some type of stadium on the MAPS III short-list; however, it came in at number 10.

The success of the Oklahoma City Thunder has certainly turned heads and have eyes taking a second look at OKC.

Here is a report listing Oklahoma City as a potential future home for the NFL:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8...pand-to/page/7

1. Los Angeles
2. San Antonio
3. A second team in Los Angeles?
4. Toronto
5. Oklahoma City

Is it possible that MAPS IV (2017 momentum) will include a stadium which could become the future home of an NFL team? Currently there are not enough dollars to support a second Fab Four franchise in OKC; however, who knows the 2020 future for an NFL franchise in one of the Sooner States top two cities (Oklahoma City, Tulsa).

1. What type of facility would we need?
2. What are our projections for 2020?
3. Could Gaylord Family Oklahoma Memorial Stadium be used as a temporary home?

We didn't expect the New Orleans Hornets to make Oklahoma City our temporary home--their temporary relocation brought out the best in Oklahoma.

Is Oklahoma City or Tulsa poised to take the next step?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

Concerning # 3. Do you really think an NFL team would play in a facility that old that does not allow beer sales? Additionally when the Outlaws(USFL) tried to lease the stadium for summer play it was shot down. Ya really think the regents would go for the stadium being used non-stop in the fall?

[Jersey Boss]

Is alcohol allowed to be sold in the Texas college stadiums? I would automatically assume, though, it's not allowed in Baylor's stadium.

Seems a few years back, CO. was the only facility that had beer sales in the Big 12.

[Tapp Development]

We noticed lots of talk about bringing NFL to OKC. Curious on what the name would be or where would you put the stadium?

[G.Walker]

As far as NFL teams coming to OKC, I do think its possible within the next 10 years. By 2020, the Oklahoma City MSA would be around 1.4 million, and OKC population would be around 700,000, that's a large enough population base to support an NFL. Moreover, the population base gets larger if you include metro areas within 2 hours driving distance with fans that will attend games from Wichita and Tulsa metro areas. Also, you could get a decent fan base from rural cities in Oklahoma. As far as stadium, it would roughly take about 2-3 years to construct decent sized stadium. The City could easily conduct funds through public/private investment to build a stadium. They could start constructing it in 2018 and could be operational by 2021. If we didn't have the AHL called the OKC Barons, I would name the NFL team the Oklahoma City Barons, but since that name is taken, I would go with the Oklahoma City Buffaloes/Bison

[G.Walker]

I would put that stadium on the Southeast side of the new I-40 Crosstown, where the Pull-A-Part scrap metal yard is currently located. This is a great location as it is close to the river, and immediate access to the interstate, and will enhance a dilapidated area. Or the the Producers COOP site is good location also!

[Oil Capital]

As far as NFL teams coming to OKC, I do think its possible within the next 10 years. By 2020, the Oklahoma City MSA would be around 1.4 million, and OKC population would be around 700,000, that's a large enough population base to support an NFL. Moreover, the population base gets larger if you include metro areas within 2 hours driving distance with fans that will attend games from Wichita and Tulsa metro areas. Also, you could get a decent fan base from rural cities in Oklahoma. As far as stadium, it would roughly take about 2-3 years to construct decent sized stadium. The City could easily conduct funds through public/private investment to build a stadium. They could start constructing it in 2018 and could be operational by 2021. If we didn't have the AHL called the OKC Barons, I would name the NFL team the Oklahoma City Barons, but since that name is taken, I would go with the Oklahoma City Buffaloes/Bison

Are there any metro areas that small (1.4 million'ish) that have both an NBA team and an NFL team?

What is the smallest market to have both?

Edit: I think I have answered my own questions:

No.

The smallest market I can find with teams in both the NBA and NFL are Indianapolis and Charlotte, which each have metro populations of about 1.75 million.

Oops. I overlooked New Orleans. But as mentioned below the NBA team is in a world of hurt.

And according to the study that has been referenced before of economic ability to support teams, Charlotte ranks No. 19 among 20 markets that lack the financial ability to adequately support their big-league franchises and Indianapolis ranks no. 15 of the 20 overextended markets. New Orleans is the 10th most overextended city.

[SoonerDave]

As far as NFL teams coming to OKC, I do think its possible within the next 10 years. By 2020, the Oklahoma City MSA would be around 1.4 million, and OKC population would be around 700,000, that's a large enough population base to support an NFL.

A study cited in this thread illustrated that you need a population base of about one million people per professional sports franchise to make them work. Even the 2020 population base, assuming that 1m/franchise remained constant, wouldn't sniff that figure.

I think people are losing sight of the drastic differences in financial scope between an NBA franchise and an NFL franchise. And considering that a stadium showed up somewhere around 10th on the list of "priorities" for the MAPS polling people, I think its easy to see public sentiment for financing such a facility would be weak at best - and any such support would likely evaporate once the price tag in the range of $750M-$1B gets out there.

About 35 years ago, gov Henry Bellmon floated the idea of a 65K seat domed stadium near the fairgrounds, but when it became apparent there was zero public sentiment for it, he scaled it down to something like a 20K multipurpose facility, and the proposal failed miserably.

I just don't think an NFL franchise is a feasible fiscal option for OKC anytime in the near future. There's a cap to the amount of corporate and personal monies available for facility construction, sponsorships, and tickets.

[RodH]

New Orleans has NBA and NFL teams. The NBA team is struggling and will probably be moved when the league sells it.

[G.Walker]

According to the 2000 Census Charlotte had roughly 1.3 million people in their metro, and had both NBA/NFL.

[G.Walker]

New Orleans has NBA and NFL teams. The NBA team is struggling and will probably be moved when the league sells it.

+1

[G.Walker]

And if you want to go by CSA, by 2020 that puts OKC in the 1.5 range...

[G.Walker]

And if you want to get even more technical the Carolina Panthers and Charlotte Hornets were established in Charlotte in the early 90's, when their metro area was barely tipping 1 million people. Its more about how much will the city invest in a team and not the size of the city. The Thunder is a prime example, because people never thought the NBA would work in OKC, now look, we are on the verge breaking barriers!.