MAPS III Redux

[floater]

It's finally out in the open; the city is openly discussing MAPS III. What should go into it? I know this has been discussed before, but let's revisit our ideas....

You can also find Mayor Cornett's State of the City online:

City of Oklahoma City | News

[SpectralMourning]

Nice idea of a post, actually. I'm more keen on developing a think tank of ideas before moving forward, instead of the "christmas wish list" that the website somewhat implies, which I suppose isn't a bad idea either.

My first concern is actually infrastructure improvement over other initiatives. While this does include light rail in the use of real trolleys, I'm becoming concerned with improving the qualities of our essentials. This winter storm has proven that we can barely function as a whole city after such a natural disaster. How can we improve on that without creating typically redundant routines that will end up costing us money (ie: larger salt stockpiles, more special use trucks) than it's primary worth? With wildfires and natural disasters occurring regularly, how can we improve upon our firefighting and emergency infrastructure? I'm not quite sure if a new police station should be funded, but how can we improve upon our police force, specifically anti-gang units?

With that being said, we need a definite, city-wide focus on improving the lives of younger individuals through non-profit works. While we have more than enough charities and businesses to cater to youth, none of it has a central and collective focus.

Even with all of these issues being rather larger concerns, should we use a program like MAPS III to improve these issues or use the increase for useful projects such as Core to Shore, the improvement of the CBD, light rail, or Oklahoma River venues?

[mranderson]

An article on the KFOR website says Mick Cornett wants input as to what should be included in MAPS III. Here is the link if you want to take the "survey." It is really not a survey. It is one question.

http://www.maps3.org

[metro]

Thanks for this post. Great website find. I posted my requests of mass transit including light rail, not just bus rapid transit.

Oh and FYI, someone just posted this topic with the same website a few hours ago in this same forum.

[ETL]

Nice idea of a post, actually. I'm more keen on developing a think tank of ideas before moving forward, instead of the "christmas wish list" that the website somewhat implies, which I suppose isn't a bad idea either.

My first concern is actually infrastructure improvement over other initiatives. While this does include light rail in the use of real trolleys, I'm becoming concerned with improving the qualities of our essentials. This winter storm has proven that we can barely function as a whole city after such a natural disaster. How can we improve on that without creating typically redundant routines that will end up costing us money (ie: larger salt stockpiles, more special use trucks) than it's primary worth? With wildfires and natural disasters occurring regularly, how can we improve upon our firefighting and emergency infrastructure? I'm not quite sure if a new police station should be funded, but how can we improve upon our police force, specifically anti-gang units?

With that being said, we need a definite, city-wide focus on improving the lives of younger individuals through non-profit works. While we have more than enough charities and businesses to cater to youth, none of it has a central and collective focus.

Even with all of these issues being rather larger concerns, should we use a program like MAPS III to improve these issues or use the increase for useful projects such as Core to Shore, the improvement of the CBD, light rail, or Oklahoma River venues?

I concur! However, we should not use MAPS III for this, but we should utilize the state wide entities that we have or create a new one.

[Kerry]

1. Rail system. If you want state of the art - think maglev.
2. 60,000 seat Heartland Castle stadium (OSU/Texas Tech game, Heartland Bowl, MLS Soccer, NCAA Soccer Championsip, high school football, MLS).
3. New City/County/State office building.
4. City Icon (and it better not be a giant spinning spur)
5. City subsidized air service with existing airlines and not a start-up (aka Great Plains).

I would also like to see some changes to city ordnances to help intice high-rise development or maybe a casino district.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Heartland Castle stadium

Are you thinking a medeval themed stadium?

[mranderson]

Are you thinking a medeval themed stadium?

Yes. There are some of us who have been around for several years. We designed a domed stadium (in theory) that resembled a castle. One of us, I think either Kerry or Patrick thought of the name Heartland Castle. We also added a Medevil theme park to be next to it.

In the Heartland Dome, we also thought of a bowl game called the Heartland Bowl.

[Keith]

Here is your chance to voice your opinion.

Mayor asks for input on MAPS 3

Should Oklahoma City consider a MAPS 3? If so, what types of projects should be included? That’s what Mayor Mick Cornett wants to learn from citizens.

Cornett announced today at his annual State of the City address that he is seeking input on a possible MAPS 3 initiative. He is encouraging people of all ages to log on to www.maps3.org and take an on-line survey, weighing in on their opinions and ideas for a new plan.

“MAPS and ‘MAPS for Kids’ have been so successful that I believe we owe it to ourselves to at least consider what more can be done to improve Oklahoma City,” said Mayor Cornett.

The Web site will accept ideas through May 15, 2007. Anyone that logs on to the site can complete the survey, regardless of residency.

Not only does Cornett want to know if people will support a MAPS 3, but he is also asking them to post their project ideas and drawings to the Web site. “The more visionary and ambitious idea, the better. The projects of a MAPS 3 should benefit our children and grandchildren and immediately propel Oklahoma City decades into the future,” Mayor Cornett said.

Teachers are specifically encouraged to discuss MAPS 3 with their students and submit project ideas online.

Timing played a critical role in rolling out the MAPS 3 website. “Not a day goes by that someone doesn’t ask me if we are going to embark on a MAPS 3. But I wasn’t ready to have that discussion until the end of the “MAPS for Kids” funding was in sight,” added Cornett.

The sales tax for “MAPS for Kids” will end in December 2008.

In addition to the survey, the MAPS 3 Web site also features a question and answer section, background information on MAPS and “MAPS for Kids,” biographies on City Council Members and Mayor Cornett’s State of the City address.

[Kerry]

Are you thinking a medeval themed stadium?

Heartland Castle is a stadium sunken into the ground so that when you enter at ground level you are between the first and second deck. The exterior would be built to resemble a castle. By sinking the stadium halfway in the ground, it will reduce construction cost for the castle effect.

The effect would be completed by surrounding the stadium with a mote connected to the Bricktown canal. Drawbridges would cross the canal to provide assess to stadium entrances. Outside of that would be a large park. The park would actually be built on the top of large parking garages for game day traffic (this has been done in many cities). The park would include picnic areas, Frisbee golf, an amphitheater, and playground. Throughout the park would be large sculptures or replicas of siege weapons. If a developer was so inclined, a shopping district resembling a European village could be built next to the stadium.

The stadium would have many uses but here are the main ones. The Heartland Bowl would pit the two best teams that did not get a Bowl invitation anywhere else. This means we would have some very good mid-major teams. The game would also be played two weeks after the end of the regular season. This would give OKC some good national coverage. All proceeds would go to support the OKC National Memorial. OSU and Baylor could use the stadium as a neutral site for football games (it would add excitement to otherwise useless game). It would also host MLS or high school football.

[floater]

Kerry has been pushing the Heartland Castle for as long as I can remember.

If the State of the City address is any indication, I think public transportation will have a place in MAPS III. The first one or two phases suggested by the fixed guideway study could be financed this way. It is definitely a city function, and it serves an underserved population (seniors, tourists, non-car owners, those just tired of driving).

Once again, it is great that Mayor Cornett suggests we dream big.

[BG918]

Light Rail system downtown!!! And instead of a giant stadium create "starter" funds to create a new Oklahoma City attraction: a National Weather Museum and Science Center. Nowhere that I know of (I may be wrong) does a museum exist that solely is based on weather, the science and history of one of the most interesting natural phenomona. Oklahoma is perfect for such a museum and science center because we experience so many different types of severe weather and we are a center for global weather research and education. It would be an awesome new attraction for downtown Oklahoma City. But yes the light rail system should be #1 priority for MAPS III. That could then spur a regional effort in getting commuter rail built between Edmond and Norman.

[SpectralMourning]

That's a fantastic idea so long as it serves as more of an institute in itself along with general public education. I'm also surprised that Oklahoma City still isn't a beacon for studying domestic terrorism by now.

As for now, I think it would be fantastic to spur the growth of the fixed guideway study as well as Core to Shore through MAPS III. ETL was correct in using current and separate legislation in influencing infrastructure. MAPS has always been more of a special events legislation and should continue to do so.

FGS shouldn't be focused in the extreme long-term when compared to MAPS. improving mass transit on the scale proposed should take at least 10-15 years if stimulated through the MAPS program, rather than the 25 years proposed. It would also be fantastic to see an elaborate intermodal center akin to the Cincinnati Union Terminal (in fact, I think Oklahoma City can learn much from Cincinnati in terms of growth and attractions) in grandeur and architecture, or even South Station in Boston.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Heartland Castle is a stadium sunken into the ground so that when you enter at ground level you are between the first and second deck. The exterior would be built to resemble a castle. By sinking the stadium halfway in the ground, it will reduce construction cost for the castle effect.

The effect would be completed by surrounding the stadium with a mote connected to the Bricktown canal. Drawbridges would cross the canal to provide assess to stadium entrances. Outside of that would be a large park. The park would actually be built on the top of large parking garages for game day traffic (this has been done in many cities). The park would include picnic areas, Frisbee golf, an amphitheater, and playground. Throughout the park would be large sculptures or replicas of siege weapons. If a developer was so inclined, a shopping district resembling a European village could be built next to the stadium.

The stadium would have many uses but here are the main ones. The Heartland Bowl would pit the two best teams that did not get a Bowl invitation anywhere else. This means we would have some very good mid-major teams. The game would also be played two weeks after the end of the regular season. This would give OKC some good national coverage. All proceeds would go to support the OKC National Memorial. OSU and Baylor could use the stadium as a neutral site for football games (it would add excitement to otherwise useless game). It would also host MLS or high school football.

Please do not be offended, but that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. A stadium I can see, and a parking garage is good, but a faux castle and medeval village...in OK? That reminds me of a hotel in Tulsa. Good luck on trying to get OSU to give up a home game in T. Boone's palace.

(cue sarcasm)

I'm sure the Toilet Bowl would draw enormous crowds and fabulous nation coverage...just like the Texas Bowl.

I must say...A Castle-themed will go a long way in showing the world we are truely a world-class city.



Sorry...

[mranderson]

"I'm sure the Toilet Bowl would draw enormous crowds and fabulous nation coverage...just like the Texas Bowl."

No one said anything about the "toilet bowl." That bowl would be the two worst teams with the loser of the game being declared the worst team of the season. Plus. There is only one place in the country it could be held. Flushing, New York.

[Martin]

i've got to agree with cuatrodemayo on that one... there are already way too many bowls in college football. the two best teams to not make it to a bowl? these days that'd mean something along the lines of 'eastern texas technical' versus 'northern tennessee welding college.'

besides that, i really don't think the medieval castle look really fits in with an image that is purely oklahoman... just my opinion. i'd say that something in the 'cherokee gothic' style would be more appropriate. also, and again just my opinion, i think that the word 'heartland' is already overused and beyond cliche.

strip away all of that and the core idea of a stadium surrounded by attractions seems like a winner if okc can find occupants for such a stadium. -M

[Pete]

OKC does need a stadium. It's pretty sad when you're a city of 1 million plus and all you have to offer is Taft Stadium! The area south of what is now I-40 would be the perfect area and a good way to clear out a lot of blight. And if it's relatively close to the Ford & Cox Centers, it could be part of a bigger convention complex.

I'd also like to see some serious money spent on the new downtown boulevard. Do it right, with lots of landscaping, art and fountains. Once I-40 is moved, this presents an opportunity to do things right and I hope we don't cheap-out.

I would like to see lots more bike and running trails, tying together some of the trails we already have. This would be pay big long-term dividends in terms of improved fitness for residents.

And finally, we all know we need better landscaping and maintenance of parks and common areas. I would like to see some sort of endowment set up for this to happen in a big way on an on-going basis.

[floater]

And finally, we all know we need better landscaping and maintenance of parks and common areas. I would like to see some sort of endowment set up for this to happen in a big way on an on-going basis.

Ah yes, beautification. Another worthy project that the city needs to improve quality of life.

[Pete]

Regarding beautification, I'd like to see Meridian south of I-40 really improved, as there are tons of hotel rooms there and it's often the first impression visitors have after they arrive at WRWA. The whole area immediately north of the airport could use lots more trees and plantings.

And dowtown as a whole could be vastly improved with more pedestrian-friendly streetscape. It would be nice to bridge Midtown to downtown through more of what they are doing along Walker, but there many streets that need a similar treatment.

We also need to do something with the fairgrounds. The improvements made to date are a good start, but we've got a long way to go.

[Patrick]

Here's the list I submitted on the MAPS3.org website.

1. Heartland Castle, a domed stadium to attract an NFL team, and have an NCAA college football bowl game called the Heartland Bowl
2. City-wide beautification and public art projects
3. Continued beautification along the Oklahoma River
4. A large symbolic space tower downtown like the space needle in Seattle or the Archway in St. Louis.
5. Extend the Bricktown canal to link to the river, and extend the Bricktown Canal west to link up with the Myriad Gardens
6. Expand the Cox Convention Center on the south side to match the expansion done on the north side. Convert the arena to convention space.
7. A start-up commuter rail system, from Norman to Moore to OKC
8. Expand the State Fair Arena, so it can house women's Big 12 basketball tournaments and other events. Needs at least 15,000 seats.
9. Further improvements to State Fair Park, i.e., replacement of the Grandstand, beautification, new exhibition buildings, etc.

[BDP]

Interesting ideas, but what's the medieval theme? Very odd. Do we have that many D&D players in OKC?

[jbrown84]

Yeah I'm not a fan of the Castle theme. A stadium would be nice, but I'd stay away from Disneyland style cheese, as well as the word Heartland.

It does seem like there are too many Bowl games, but if Shreveport can have one, we ought to be able to.

[metro]

Malibu, FYI, the merger of the Lake Hefner trails to the Lake Overholser trails are coming along quite nicely. I drove by Wiley Post airport today and you can see the construction of the bike/walking trails tieing the two lakes together is well under construction. I'm guessing it will be done by this summer?

And yeah, I'm with jbrown on the stadium, stay away from all this cheesy castle thing, we're not in Europe!

[Patrick]

Okay, here's a better idea. Let's build a large 65,000 seat domed stadium with a white roof, and gray concrete structural beams. Make the inside gray concrete, and the ceiling gray concrete. Have gray and black seats.

Now that's original.

And here's a novel concept: get a major corporation to sponsor it by selling naming rights!!!!! I've got it. How about The Ford Dome!

Oh yeah, and it can have an absolutely lousy sound system, seats that are incredibly small and tight, and an ugly brown brick exterior.

I think the point in the Heartland Castle is that it's incredibly unique. If you have other unique ideas, present them, otherwise, you're just complaining with no better ideas.

[TStheThird]

I too do not understand the medieval theme. Why? Seriously?