6 Billion Magaritaville Resort Lake Texoma/Denison Tx

[Bowser214]

Dallas TV station WFAA reported a 6 Billion Margaritaville resort at Lake Texoma but the article says it's on the Texas side. This is in addition to the Hard Rock Hotel near Kingston. OMG.
https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/lo...a-a61b837580a8

[bison34]

Everything's bigger in Texas. $6 billion is insane. Pointe Vista is what, $1 billion? This project is a monster!

Good for Lake Texoma. Denison and Sherman have more cranes right now than all of Oklahoma. I wish we had a slice of that semiconductor pie.

[scottk]

Would it not make more sense to build it on the Oklahoma side to allow for gaming/casino to be built with the resort? If Hard Rock Kingston is having gaming, it seems that the audience that heads this direction would favor that over just a nice hotel/resort?

It would be like building a resort in Vegas and not having a casino attached to it.

Also wonder how these two new ones will go against Choctaw Resort Durant so close by?

[Pete]

Yeah, this doesn't make a lot of logical sense. "Proposed" vs. "built and open" are two very different things.

We'll see if this happens and if so at what scale.

[bison34]

Would it not make more sense to build it on the Oklahoma side to allow for gaming/casino to be built with the resort? If Hard Rock Kingston is having gaming, it seems that the audience that heads this direction would favor that over just a nice hotel/resort?

It would be like building a resort in Vegas and not having a casino attached to it.

Also wonder how these two new ones will go against Choctaw Resort Durant so close by?

Depends. Is the land on the Oklahoma side tribal trust land for the Choctaw Tribe? If not, then it wouldn't matter where it's built. I think there are plenty of people who love going to the lake without gambling. Especially Texoma.

And all the housing will be desperately needed, as well.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm guessing it's another of those dreams that assumes casino gambling is just around the corner in Texas, since the Las Vegas Sands controlling Adelson family bought into the Dallas Mavericks.

[Dob Hooligan]

Depends. Is the land on the Oklahoma side tribal trust land for the Choctaw Tribe? If not, then it wouldn't matter where it's built. I think there are plenty of people who love going to the lake without gambling. Especially Texoma.

And all the housing will be desperately needed, as well.

I think Kingston is in Chickasaw country. I'm also guessing that since the Hard Rock brand belongs to the Seminole Tribe of Florida, there's gotta be some kind of partnership with the Chickasaw.

[SunRoad]

There are places where the state line is on the south shore of Texoma (and places where Oklahoma actually extends south of the Red River). So I’m wondering if it’s possible that the Choctaw Nation extends to this development? And, if so, might they consider building a “floating” casino similar to the ones Missouri allows in the big rivers? That might help explain why the Choctaw are investing in the plan.

[JoninATX]

This reminds me of Lake Tahoe. All casinos are built on one side (Nevada), and housing on the other (California). Sounds like an ambitious project.

[April in the Plaza]

Would it not make more sense to build it on the Oklahoma side to allow for gaming/casino to be built with the resort? If Hard Rock Kingston is having gaming, it seems that the audience that heads this direction would favor that over just a nice hotel/resort?

It would be like building a resort in Vegas and not having a casino attached to it.

Also wonder how these two new ones will go against Choctaw Resort Durant so close by?

Texas will end up having similar gambling laws soon enough. The Adelsons would not have bought the Mavs unless some assurances were made on that front.

[JoninATX]

Texas will end up having similar gambling laws soon enough. The Adelsons would not have bought the Mavs unless some assurances were made on that front.

Not while Lt. Governor Dan Patrick in office. You can expect any type of gambling/ sports betting proposal to be thrown out of office.

[JoninATX]

With what I just stated above, I'm honestly thinking the political environment in Texas is creating a "Las Vegas" effect in Southern Oklahoma.

[Swake]

This reminds me of Lake Tahoe. All casinos are built on one side (Nevada), and housing on the other (California). Sounds like an ambitious project.

NYC and Connecticut.

[Urbanized]

I think this isn’t odd in any way whatsoever. In fact, I think it is to some extent an answer to Pointe Vista. It makes total business sense.

You have to look at logistics and at which land is in trust for which tribal nation. Pointe Vista and the just-announced Hard Rock are Chickasaw endeavors. Yes, the Hard Rock brand is OWNED by the Seminole Nation of Florida. But just as they did with the Cherokees, they licensed that brand to another tribal nation.

In this case the announced Hard Rock is ostensibly just a hotel, but it is immediately adjacent to the already-existing West Bay Casino and resort AND the Texoma Casino (both owned and operated by the Chickasaws). Currently these casinos trail WinStar (Chickasaw) and the Choctaw Casino in Durant (Choctaw, obvi). But as soon as the Chickasaws have the Hard Rock name and hotel attached, the generically-named casinos at Pointe Vista will become bigger players for DFW players overnight.

And though I have no specific insight, I would wager a bunch of money that one or both of those casinos will be rebranded to Hard Rock as soon as the hotel opens. So now you have a nationally branded casino property on the Oklahoma side, within a major resort development. That is clearly going to steal away DFW a significant number of consumers from Choctaw Casino (and also probably some from WinStar, but that won’t bother the Chickasaws, as it’s all in the same family).

So what are the Choctaws to do to counter? Unfortunately for them, Choctaw Casino in Durant isn’t situated on Texoma, so it’s never going to become a lakefront resort. However, you can still build an even bigger-than-Pointe Vista (and also a brand name) lake resort BETWEEN the new Hard Rock and DFW, which means building it in the Texas side of the lake, and just a hop, skip and jump away from Choctaw Casino, right up highway 75 (only 11 miles from the state line).

And who is funding the Texas resort? Well, the Choctaws, of course. This resort is intended to be more elaborate than Pointe Vista, and it will be easier to get to from DFW (basically still in the metroplex). You can GUARANTEE that shuttles between this resort and Choctaw Casino will be nonstop, 24/7. And should gaming become legal in Texas at some point they can and surely will build a lakefront casino in this location, too.

This is an arms race. Look at all of these places on a map and it will become obvious.

[DowntownMan]

There are places where the state line is on the south shore of Texoma (and places where Oklahoma actually extends south of the Red River). So I’m wondering if it’s possible that the Choctaw Nation extends to this development? And, if so, might they consider building a “floating” casino similar to the ones Missouri allows in the big rivers? That might help explain why the Choctaw are investing in the plan.

Actually Choctaw nation ends not far from the Choctaw casino.
All the land between river and Choctaw (around calera I think) is the Chickasaw nation

[PhiAlpha]

I think this isn’t odd in any way whatsoever. In fact, I think it is to some extent an answer to Pointe Vista. It makes total business sense.

You have to look at logistics and at which land is in trust for which tribal nation. Pointe Vista and the just-announced Hard Rock are Chickasaw endeavors. Yes, the Hard Rock brand is OWNED by the Seminole Nation of Florida. But just as they did with the Cherokees, they licensed that brand to another tribal nation.

In this case the announced Hard Rock is ostensibly just a hotel, but it is immediately adjacent to the already-existing West Bay Casino and resort AND the Texoma Casino (both owned and operated by the Chickasaws). Currently these casinos trail WinStar (Chickasaw) and the Choctaw Casino in Durant (Choctaw, obvi). But as soon as the Chickasaws have the Hard Rock name and hotel attached, the generically-named casinos at Pointe Vista will become bigger players for DFW players overnight.

And though I have no specific insight, I would wager a bunch of money that one or both of those casinos will be rebranded to Hard Rock as soon as the hotel opens. So now you have a nationally branded casino property on the Oklahoma side, within a major resort development. That is clearly going to steal away DFW a significant number of consumers from Choctaw Casino (and also probably some from WinStar, but that won’t bother the Chickasaws, as it’s all in the same family).

So what are the Choctaws to do to counter? Unfortunately for them, Choctaw Casino in Durant isn’t situated on Texoma, so it’s never going to become a lakefront resort. However, you can still build an even bigger-than-Pointe Vista (and also a brand name) lake resort BETWEEN the new Hard Rock and DFW, which means building it in the Texas side of the lake, and just a hop, skip and jump away from Choctaw Casino, right up highway 75 (only 11 miles from the state line).

And who is funding the Texas resort? Well, the Choctaws, of course. This resort is intended to be more elaborate than Pointe Vista, and it will be easier to get to from DFW (basically still in the metroplex). You can GUARANTEE that shuttles between this resort and Choctaw Casino will be nonstop, 24/7. And should gaming become legal in Texas at some point they can and surely will build a lakefront casino in this location, too.

This is an arms race. Look at all of these places on a map and it will become obvious.

Magaritaville was originally close to a deal with Point Vista but they ended up finalizing a deal with Hard Rock after that fell through. Not sure who walked away from who or why but Hard Rock was more than willing to step in and the deal came together very quickly. Big advantage for now goes to Hard Rock as they actually have a casino onsite/nextdoor.

[Rover]

Magaritaville was originally close to a deal with Point Vista but they ended up finalizing a deal with Hard Rock after that fell through. Not sure who walked away from who or why but Hard Rock was more than willing to step in and the deal came together very quickly. Big advantage for now goes to Hard Rock as they actually have a casino onsite/nextdoor.

Technically, the casino will be adjacent to, but not part of the hotel.

[Snowman]

Would it not make more sense to build it on the Oklahoma side to allow for gaming/casino to be built with the resort? If Hard Rock Kingston is having gaming, it seems that the audience that heads this direction would favor that over just a nice hotel/resort?

It would be like building a resort in Vegas and not having a casino attached to it.

Also wonder how these two new ones will go against Choctaw Resort Durant so close by?

I would not be shocked if the location chosen offered higher tax incentives or subsidies. Casinos may be a draw, but it is not like the majority of resorts have one.

[mugofbeer]

As has been discussed around the boards, the Adelson Casino's are apparently going to push for casino gambling in Texas and build a new Maverick's Arena around one. The Dallas Morning News had an article behind a paywall l couldn't read through today.

[Urbanized]

Technically, the casino will be adjacent to, but not part of the hotel.

I don’t have any specific insight here, but would not be at all surprised if the generic casino name(s) is (are) changed to match the hotel. Would make little business sense not to do so.

[PhiAlpha]

Technically, the casino will be adjacent to, but not part of the hotel.

Hence why I said onsite/nextdoor. The casino is literally in the middle of the development.

I have more than a feeling that they will end up more intertwined than just being adjacent to each other but we'll see how it comes together as things progress. The Chickasaws and Point Vista have been working together on this which is why they purchased land in the middle of their resort, planned community, golf course and marina and stuck a casino on it. Everybody wins.

[Rover]

I don’t have any specific insight here, but would not be at all surprised if the generic casino name(s) is (are) changed to match the hotel. Would make little business sense not to do so.

Hotel is Hard Rock

[Urbanized]

Um, yes..? My point was that one or both of the casinos will most likely be rebranded to match the hotel, which itself will be an internationally-known brand name.

[Rover]

Um, yes..? My point was that one or both of the casinos will most likely be rebranded to match the hotel, which itself will be an internationally-known brand name.

Hard Rock is Seminole. Casino isn’t on Seminole land.

[Urbanized]

Hard Rock is Seminole. Casino isn’t on Seminole land.

Not sure I understand your point..? Hard Rock in Tulsa is on Cherokee trust land and owned/operated by the Cherokee Nation. The Sioux City Hard Rock is owned/operated by Churchill Downs. Hard Rock Biloxi is owned and operated by a non-Seminole REIT. Hard Rock Vancouver is owned and operated by a private Canadian gaming and hospitality company; NOT by the Seminoles.

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida owns the Hard Rock brand, but they do license to other entities, and in fact are ALREADY licensing to the Chickasaws in the case of the newly-announced hotel.

I’d bet a steak dinner that at least one of the Pointe Vista casinos will be rebranded to match the attached hotel.