Western Avenue District

[Skyline]

I'm not sure if Western Avenue has it's own thread and if it does I apologize for creating this thread and please merge to the appropriate area.

http://www.visitwesternavenue.com/

Western Ave District ... Recently I have been spending a fair amount of time in this area especially on the south end of this district between N41st & N50th. I find this south end stretch of Western Ave. very interesting with a strong concentrated mix of retail, restaurants, bars, art, and services. My opinion is that this may be the best developed inner area district of Okc. However, Western Ave. seems to be missing something that would give it the final touch?

Walkability ...... I think the city of Okc needs to make the south end (between 40th - 50th) Western Ave district the top priority for new sidewalks, bicycle lanes and to rework the side street parking. Much like so many areas of Okc it is very unfriendly to pedestrians and cyclists. It is very difficult to walk in an area that should definitely be a walkable district.

This area is so close with all the private development already in place. It is only lacking the investment from the City to truly make this district shine even brighter.

[G.Walker]

I'm not sure if Western Avenue has it's own thread and if it does I apologize for creating this thread and please merge to the appropriate area.

http://www.visitwesternavenue.com/

Western Ave District ... Recently I have been spending a fair amount of time in this area especially on the south end of this district between N41st & N50th. I find this south end stretch of Western Ave. very interesting with a strong concentrated mix of retail, restaurants, bars, art, and services. My opinion is that this may be the best developed inner area district of Okc. However, Western Ave. seems to be missing something that would give it the final touch?

Walkability ...... I think the city of Okc needs to make the south end (between 40th - 50th) Western Ave district the top priority for new sidewalks, bicycle lanes and to rework the side street parking. Much like so many areas of Okc it is very unfriendly to pedestrians and cyclists. It is very difficult to walk in an area that should definitely be a walkable district.

This area is so close with all the private development already in place. It is only lacking the investment from the City to truly make this district shine even brighter.

I agree, this is a destination area for me on my lunch break, because I don't work that far from the area. There are unique restaurants and retail, but you are right in that its not pedestrian friendly. They should widen the streets with a center median for turning, 2 lanes on each side, and redo sidewalks and landscaping.

[lasomeday]

I agree, this is a destination area for me on my lunch break, because I don't work that far from the area. There are unique restaurants and retail, but you are right in that its not pedestrian friendly. They should widen the streets with a center median for turning, 2 lanes on each side, and redo sidewalks and landscaping.

G.Walker, really? Do you know what walkability means? 4 lanes and a median is not walkable. They just need to add sidewalks. Making the streets wider would require them to knock down the businesses you frequent.

[Just the facts]

G.Walker, really? Do you know what walkability means? 4 lanes and a median is not walkable. They just need to add sidewalks. Making the streets wider would require them to knock down the businesses you frequent.

If anything they need to narrow the streets, build sidewalks, put in traffic circles, and get rid of segragated zoning.

[khook]

G walker wants to widen everything so whats there can be torn down and everything would have to start over.....we could revisit the sixties or just turn the whole area into a big parking lot......

[Skyline]

If anything they need to narrow the streets, build sidewalks, put in traffic circles, and get rid of segragated zoning.

This is what I have in mind too. Narrow the streets, adding a bicycle lane, giving the Western Ave. properties a larger storefront area for outside dining / exhibits, while also having ample sidewalk widths for pedestrian strolling. There needs to be at least a couple of pedestrian crosswalks with flashing in-street lights too. Just giving this area a cohesive flow from one point to the other.

Okc is really missing out here, especially considering all the private investment that is already in place here. It seems like there are other Districts that have received much needed improvements, why not the Western Ave District?

[MDot]

I agree that Western Ave should be more pedestrian friendly. It's a really nice little area that deserves more attention.

[Urban Pioneer]

There is money in the 2007 bond issue to re-do Western from Shartel to I-44. I believe that it hhas been delayed because bonds have not sold as fast as they would hope due to the economy.

[BG918]

This needs to happen. I wonder if Chesapeake would help finance it? It would enhance the connection between their campus and this district as well as downtown.

2 lanes with bike lanes and wider sidewalks with on-street parking. It would really enhance that area of the city.

[Just the facts]

They need to pick an intersection and urbanize it. Narrow the road to one lane in each direction, put in on street parking, remove segregation style zoning restriction, put in bike lanes that reach into the surrounding residential areas, hang some decorative lights across the street, and add some midblock crosswalks - and see what happens.

[dankrutka]

I agree with all these suggestions (except make the street wider). There are so many new and upcoming areas being invested in, but a simple investment in this already established area would be well worth it.

[lasomeday]

The plaza district paid for their improvements out of their own pockets.

[ksearls]

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

[MDot]

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

Sorry... Unhipster? Lol

[onthestrip]

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

Lol. But true, westerns streets are fine as it is

[khook]

lasomeday I don't believe that the landowners paid for the street and lighting improvements that were made along 16th street. Maybe it is my misunderstanding of what you meant. If you meant that all the building improvements were made by the individual owners, I would agree with you on that point. But the sidewalks, planters, lighting and seating were all paid for by the city.

[swilki]

The plaza district paid for their improvements out of their own pockets.

Wrong.

Someone correct me if I am wrong. Didn't the Plaza District get its start from concerned residents in the area who wrote grants and got the city on board?

I would also attribute much of the success of the Plaza District becoming what it is to the Plaza District Association (a nonprofit whose sole purpose is to revitalize the area). I know that the Western Ave businesses have some sort of association, but it isn't as developed as its counterpart in the Plaza. I don't even think the Western Ave association (or whatever it is) has a full-time, let alone part-time, person working for it.

I think all of the above ideas are great, sans the widening. Western really is a unique area and has been a stable area for restaurants and retail for quite sometime now. I think Crown Heights and some of the other neighborhoods in the area would be smart to be proactive in getting the city to make some of the suggested improvements.

[Just the facts]

Western is already 2 lanes south of 50th. It is perfect as is. Back off hipsters.

That wasn't the part of Western we (at least I) was talking about, but you make a great point. Western between 41st and 46th already is two lanes and has on-street parking. Now it just needs some better sidewalks, crosswalks, traffic circles, and bicycle lanes connecting the adjacent neighborhoods. The goal should not be to make these places destinations people drive to from all over OKC, they should exist to serve the needs of the immediate neighborhoods. These types of commercial/retail clusters should exist all over the urban core every mile or so. This is what I mean when I say OKC needs to rebuild the traditional neighborhood model when I discuss mass transit strategies, but I digress.

[swilki]

The goal should not be to make these places destinations people drive to from all over OKC, they should exist to serve the needs of the immediate neighborhoods. These types of commercial/retail clusters should exist all over the urban core every mile or so. This is what I mean when I say OKC needs to rebuild the traditional neighborhood model when I discuss mass transit strategies, but I digress.

[ljbab728]

Now it just needs some better sidewalks, crosswalks, traffic circles, and bicycle lanes connecting the adjacent neighborhoods.

Yes to everything but traffic circles. Besides the fact that this area doesn't have room for them, traffic circles are not good anywhere in urban areas. We have had this discussion before.

[rcjunkie]

Yes to everything but traffic circles. Besides the fact that this area doesn't have room for them, traffic circles are not good anywhere in urban areas. We have had this discussion before.

Traffic circles are not the problem, people just don't know how to use them (need retraining on what a Yield Sign means)

[Just the facts]

Yes to everything but traffic circles. Besides the fact that this area doesn't have room for them, traffic circles are not good anywhere in urban areas. We have had this discussion before.

They don't need traffic circles at every intersection, just at the beginning and end of the commercial cluster. Say one at 41st and one at 46th. Plus, they don't have to be big ones that take up a lot of room. Traffic circles are a traffic calming technique and once the traffic is slowed down you don't need to keep slowing it down. That is why there is one at each end of the St Anthony's campus on 10th, and not on the two intersections in between. Also, traffic circles are not the most pedestrian friendly setup so you don't want them within a pedestrian zone.

In retrospect - I should have been using the term 'roundabout' and not 'traffic circle'. They aren't the same thing.

[jdcf]

I applaud these suggestions for Western Ave. and the comments in this thread.

I want to be sure I correctly understand what segregated zoning means. Will someone please explain it to me?

Thank you.

[Just the facts]

I applaud these suggestions for Western Ave. and the comments in this thread.

I want to be sure I correctly understand what segregated zoning means. Will someone please explain it to me?

Thank you.

Modern zoning divides activities up. Housing goes over there, retail goes over here, commercial goes down there. And then it gets subdivided from there again. Housing less than 5 units per acre goes in that section, and more than 20 units per acres go in another section. It requires people to have to travel when their activity changes. If you want to eat dinner you have to leave the residential area and go the commercial district. If you want to buy something you have to go to a retail district. And heaven forbid you want to get a beer; you have to drive all over the place to get one of those. Plus, zoning is usually 2 dimensional even though we live in a 3D world. This creates nothing but single use one story buildings because for the most part, multi-use isn't allowed by default.

There should be 3 zones; rural, industrial, everything else. Of course, people will argue that a bar will exist next to a school or a strip club might infringe on a residential neighborhood. I say, let the consumers make that decision. If left to their own will, business will go where their customers are. It is because of segregated zoning that customers now have to go to where the business are; which is how we ended up with 6 lanes roads and 20 acre parking lots.

Each of these little commercial clusters should become the downtown for each neighborhood. Community banks, local diners, law office, insurance office, local clothiers, drug stores, groceries, etc... There shouldn't be a need to drive all over the place for these things, but segregated zoning requires it. Zoning isn't just land use, it also controls how many parking space you have to have, how big the parking spaces need to be, and how much landscaping is required. A bar should be able to exist in this section of Western and narry a parking spot should be required (in fact, we would probably be better off if there was no parking - make the drunks walk home).

Here is a link to all the zoning districts in OKC and what is allowed in each one.

http://gis.okc.gov/netapps/OnlineZon...efinitions.pdf

You can access a zoning map here (just select the zoning option at the top of the map and then zoom in):
http://okcedis.com/

Incidently - this section of Western is zone C-4:

General Commercial District. The C-4 District is intended for the conduct of wholesale, retail and office business activities that serve the needs of citizens from anywhere in the metropolitan area, rather than being oriented only to surrounding residential areas. Because the permitted uses may serve and employ a large number of people from a large part of the metropolitan area, the activities conducted, and the traffic generated, make this district very much incompatible with residential development. The Comprehensive Plan policy does not support further expansion of the C-4 District.

What this section of Western really needs is high density housing and professional services built on top of retail and resturants, but we are too busy worrying about where cars will park to do that.

[betts]

There are sidewalks on much of Western between 36th and 50th, but there are so many driveways bisecting them that it makes the area feel less walkable. The other problem is that there are no stoplights. Pedestrians have to take their lives into their hands because people frequently drive 40 through there. I shop a lot in that area and even backing out from the angle parking in front of some of the stores is risky, much less trying to cross the street on foot.