City leaders are planning a new convention center hotel

[Swake]

With the IOT3 package passing, which will pay for a new police and fire headquarters, the city is planning for a new hotel on the current site of the police and fire building next to the convention center, the building to right in this photo:

This building here



The plan is for a $350 million convention hotel with 650 rooms and wants to have construction started before the end of 2024.

There are currently two hotels attached to the convention center, the 411 room Double Tree and the 180 room aLoft. There's also The Mayo, LaQuinta Inn and Suites, Hampton Inn and Suites and Residence Inn by Marriott within 1/3 of a mile of the convention center. This new hotel would bring the room count to 1,241 rooms attached to the convention center and 1,655 within 1/3 of a mile.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/go...47a5415f6.html

[BG918]

Interesting shuffle happening downtown with the police/fire HQ and potentially the county courthouse both moving from this location to make way for the convention hotel. The recently-closed Hiland Dairy is the likely location for either the police/fire HQ or courthouse. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a new building built as well.

[Laramie]

A new convention center would be a good investment for Tulsa especially if you're going to build a 650 room Luxury Convention Center Hotel.

[Plutonic Panda]

Hopefully it’s a nice flag like JW Marriott or Ritz Carlton and not a joker hotel like what OKC got.

[CPin405]

Hopefully it’s a nice flag like JW Marriott or Ritz Carlton and not a joker hotel like what OKC got.

How is the Omni a “joker hotel?” Is it because it’s not taller? Not a fan of the design? It’s a nice hotel. Just because something is not the highest top tier brand doesn’t mean it’s trash.

[Swake]

A new convention center would be a good investment for Tulsa especially if you're going to build a 650 room Luxury Convention Center Hotel.

Tulsa's convention center had a $55 million renovation just two years ago.

[Rover]

Hopefully it’s a nice flag like JW Marriott or Ritz Carlton and not a joker hotel like what OKC got.

Well, it is Tulsa after all. I’m sure whatever OKC does Tulsa will do it better and bigger.

[chssooner]

Hopefully it’s a nice flag like JW Marriott or Ritz Carlton and not a joker hotel like what OKC got.

Maybe the dumbest take you've ever had. Omni is a top-notch brand.

Actuality, remove the maybe.

[BG918]

Maybe the dumbest take you've ever had. Omni is a top-notch brand.

Actuality, remove the maybe.

Agree we would love an Omni in Tulsa. I think a Westin would be great since we don’t have one.

[Rover]

Agree we would love an Omni in Tulsa. I think a Westin would be great since we don’t have one.

Wasn’t the hotel at Center Plaza a Westin when it opened?

[BG918]

Wasn’t the hotel at Center Plaza a Westin when it opened?

Yes what is now the Hyatt Regency by the Williams Center was originally a Westin

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, it is Tulsa after all. I’m sure whatever OKC does Tulsa will do it better and bigger.

Bad attempt at a joke I guess. Should’ve added /s

[Laramie]

If the 64 year old $55 million renovation to the former Tulsa Civic Assembly Center Complex built in 1964--eight years older than PSM Studios (opened 1972) will carry Tulsa thru the next 15-20 years, great.

Tulsa will be competing against OKC's $525 million state-of-the-art $288 million convention center and $232 million 605 room Omni Luxury Hotel complex. Also OKC expects to open a new $750 million+ DT arena before 2028.

Seriously, good luck on a new 650 room luxury hotel; expect to subsidize it with $100 million+ of Tulsa's own money.

[BG918]

From the TW article:

There are five hotels within that distance of the Convention Center: the DoubleTree, the Aloft, the Residence Inn, Hampton Inn & Suites and the Mayo.

And although those hotels have a total of 935 rooms, typically only a third or so of the rooms can be committed exclusively for convention business. Hunden Partners found that Tulsa’s has a deficit of 604 walkable rooms from the Convention Center, a figure based on the size of its exhibit hall space.

The study also notes that among Tulsa’s regional competitors for conventions, such as Nashville, Kansas City and Austin, the average number of walkable hotels is 14. Oklahoma City has seven.

McKenney believes Tulsa will need many more rooms within one or two blocks of the Convention Center to even get in the game of attracting larger events.

“When I talked about peak room nights … a group that we would want would be at least 1,000 on peak,” McKenney said.

This makes it sound like any convention hotel will also include its own additional ballroom/meeting room space

Tulsans have spent or committed to spend tens of millions of dollars to upgrade and maintain the Convention and BOK centers over the last decade, including $55 million for the Convention Center in the 2029 Vision Tulsa package, and a combined $25 million for both facilities in this month’s IOT 3 program.

McKenney said those venues are thriving despite not having enough of what a convention hotel would provide in abundance: meeting rooms. The Cox Business Convention Center has 19, compared to an average of 44 in competitive regional convention centers, according to Hunden Partners.

“When a meeting planner comes here, and we do a preconference and a post-conference meeting, the thing we hear over and over again, is that we really would have loved to have been in Tulsa, but you could not accommodate our meeting room needs, small meeting rooms, you could not accommodate our walkability,” McKenney said. “And you could not accommodate our hotel blocks.”

[Swake]

If the 64 year old $55 million renovation to the former Tulsa Civic Assembly Center Complex built in 1964--eight years older than PSM Studios (opened 1972) will carry Tulsa thru the next 15-20 years, great.

Tulsa will be competing against OKC's $525 million state-of-the-art $288 million convention center and $232 million 605 room Omni Luxury Hotel complex. Also OKC expects to open a new $750 million+ DT arena before 2028.

Seriously, good luck on a new 650 room luxury hotel; expect to subsidize it with $100 million+ of Tulsa's own money.

A majority of the convention center was not built in 1964 and the center has been renovated and expanded repeatedly. The 100,000 square foot exhibition hall is maybe 20-25 years old and seeing as it is just a big box, there's no reason to replace it. The grand ballroom opened in 2009. The new, second, ballroom in opened in 2020 replacing the old arena in the oldest section of the center. It was part of that $55 million renovation to the entire 64 year old section that also added a new entrance.

Most convention centers grow over time and are not replaced. Dallas dates to 1973, Las Vegas to 1959, Chicago to 1958, San Francisco to 1981. It saves money.

The problem to me with the Tulsa Convention Center is the Civic Center Plaza, which is worn out and decrepit. Replacing the Police Courts building with a new hotel would also fix that particular problem. Could Tulsa use a second 100,000 square foot exhibition hall to better compete with Oklahoma City? Maybe? How many conventions that might come to Tulsa actually need exhibition space of more than 100,000 square feet but not more than 200,000 square feet AND would be unwilling to use the Expo Building instead? The truly big shows in Tulsa already use the Expo Building.

The Tulsa Convention Center will never be as nice as the one OKC just opened. It just won't, but building something like that probably doesn't make financial sense. And don't forget OKC's new billion dollar arena, which I am sure will be outstanding, will actually be LESS useful for conventions. The floor will be sized for basketball specifically, not hockey. Less floor space is less useful.

Capture.JPG

[Decious]

I read somewhere that OVG is going to be helping Tulsa with this development. Seems like everything is coming together for an outstanding project.

I think that Tulsa will knock this out of the park.

[Laramie]

A majority of the convention center was not built in 1964 and the center has been renovated and expanded repeatedly. The 100,000 square foot exhibition hall is maybe 20-25 years old and seeing as it is just a big box, there's no reason to replace it. The grand ballroom opened in 2009. The new, second, ballroom in opened in 2020 replacing the old arena in the oldest section of the center. It was part of that $55 million renovation to the entire 64 year old section that also added a new entrance.
. . . .

The problem to me with the Tulsa Convention Center is the Civic Center Plaza, which is worn out and decrepit. Replacing the Police Courts building with a new hotel would also fix that particular problem. Could Tulsa use a second 100,000 square foot exhibition hall to better compete with Oklahoma City? Maybe? How many conventions that might come to Tulsa actually need exhibition space of more than 100,000 square feet but not more than 200,000 square feet AND would be unwilling to use the Expo Building instead? The truly big shows in Tulsa already use the Expo Building.
. . . . .

Recall going to the Fairgrounds Pavilion, Tulsa Icers couple of years before OKC got a team.

Remember seeing construction projects when the team moved to the Assembly Center as the Ice Oilers, Recall the beautiful plaza with fountains.

Okay, now seeing the true picture since all of these projects near the Civic Center were staggered as part of a larger development.

Memories: Tulsa fans wanted to beat OKC every game--sometimes as many as 6 chartered buses entered the fairgrounds--they would seat the Tulsa fans together in a special section--they were loud.

Threatened by some die heart fans; Blazers beat the Oilers on a late overtime goal by Jim Lorentz and our three charter buses were pelted with rocks leaving the civic center parking lot.

Some Ice Oilers fans followed our buses all the way to the Mid-Way restaurant in several trucks to Howard Johnson restaurant (restroom stop) wanting to fight. Bus drivers alerted HJ security about the situation, security got things under control; they had an over pass where you could look down upon the cars on the Turnpike (really cool) and walk over to the other side.

GM Ray Miron following that incident had Tulsa police escort Blazer fans and team to our buses whenever we played in T-town.

[Swake]

Recall going to the Fairgrounds Pavilion, Tulsa Icers couple of years before OKC got a team.

Remember seeing construction projects when the team moved to the Assembly Center as the Ice Oilers, Recall the beautiful plaza with fountains.

Okay, now seeing the true picture since all of these projects near the Civic Center were staggered as part of a larger development.

Memories: Tulsa fans wanted to beat OKC every game--sometimes as many as 6 chartered buses entered the fairgrounds--they would seat the Tulsa fans together in a special section--they were loud.

Threatened by some die heart fans; Blazers beat the Oilers on a late overtime goal by Jim Lorentz and our three charter buses were pelted with rocks leaving the civic center parking lot.

Some Ice Oilers fans followed our buses all the way to the Mid-Way restaurant in several trucks to Howard Johnson restaurant (restroom stop) wanting to fight. Bus drivers alerted HJ security about the situation, security got things under control; they had an over pass where you could look down upon the cars on the Turnpike (really cool) and walk over to the other side.

GM Ray Miron following that incident had Tulsa police escort Blazer fans and team to our buses whenever we played in T-town.

Tulsa’s hockey teams have always been the Oilers. I don’t recall a season at the Pavilion. The original Oilers played from 1928 to 1951 at the Tulsa Coliseum (which burned in 1952). The second Oilers team played from 1964 to 1984 at the Civic Center Arena. The current team started in 1992 and also played at the Civic Center until the BOK opened. Tulsa’s Oilers are far older than Edmonton’s Oilers. Tulsa’s baseball teams were also known the Oilers from 1905 until 1976.

My grandfather was an elite junior hockey player from Saskatoon, and he played center/wing for the Oilers starting on the original team in 1928. He played 14 years in Tulsa, coached two. His number is retired and is in the rafters in the BOK Center today. He was a seven time league MVP and was the Oilers all time leading scorer until the mid 1990s.



The original Oilers were in the American Hockey Association which was intended to compete with the early NHL. When Tulsa won the league in the first season they challenged the NHL champion to a game and were turned down. The next year the AHA champion challenged the NHL winner, played the game and won, but it wasn’t sanctioned by the Stanley Cup. In 1931 Tulsa won again and challenged and the game was even sanctioned. But Tulsa lost. As the world suffered the Great Depression the AHA stopped trying to compete with the NHL and those challenge games stopped.

My grandfather wasn’t signed by an NHL team from Jr League because he was a 5’6” center/wing, but after the NHL/AHA games the Blackhawks tried to sign him for years but the Oilers wouldn’t release him. He was good friends with Ray and Monte Miron, they revered my grandfather. I met them many times at my grandparents house. When my grandfather turned 100 in 2007 the NHL brought the Stanley Cup to Tulsa for his birthday.

People would ask him if he regretted never playing in the NHL. My grandfather would answer, no, he regretted tearing his rotator cuff in high school which ended his career in baseball, which was his best and favorite sport. He did all that he did in Hockey and couldn't raise his right arm above his shoulder.

[Bellaboo]

Great Story. ^^^^

[Laramie]

Interesting story about your GF. Here's an old page found on the internet: https://icehockey.fandom.com/wiki/Expo_Square_Pavilion

I do recall listening to a hockey game on radio from the Pavilion in Tulsa. Lots of internet sites you use to access, can't find anymore don't exist--since people aren't paying to keep those sites online.

BTW when OKC opened the Myriad, we didn't have a hockey team (pre CHL revival Horn Chen, Bill Levins & Ray Miron). Recall watching a Tulsa Oilers team play a game against Dallas--first hockey game played in the Myriad. Attended a CHL game in Dallas' Fair Park Coliseum, neat place, you could partially see the skaters warming up from the outside of the arena.

What ever happened to John Brooks (Sportscast Productions); he use to really get animated when he as in the broadcast booth.

New State Fair Coliseum under construction seems to be all rodeo related.

Looks as though we'll never see an OKC-TUL ice hockey era like the old Blazers vs Oilers series again.

[Rover]

Love how these threads go so off topic… stream of consciousness.

[Laramie]

Love how these threads go so off topic… stream of consciousness.

I'm Guilty, Guilty, Guilty on all counts LOL!. You start off on one thread; then you go back and forth on aother, when you submit, you realize you're on a completely different topic.

[BG918]

RFP released for developers of a new high rise convention hotel in downtown Tulsa




https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/bu...b46e9a063.html

[bombermwc]

One thing that could help the Tulsa CC is to work on redoing the exterior. No matter how many times they remodel inside, the outside still looks like a 1970 concrete pile of crap. It's such an easy fix too, I just dont understand why they haven't done that yet.

Metal-clad the columns and square the tops up. Glass it in. Even stucco the thing. Something.