Takaramono (formerly Oak & Ore)

[Pete]

This is the new Japanese place going into the old Oak & Ore space in the Plaza.

Looks pretty ambitious.

[OkieBerto]

This looks amazing and I really want to try it, but I am still so worried about places that want to do fancy in the Plaza. This looks more Paseo or Classen Curve or even maybe Midtown.

[Timshel]

Any idea who's opening it?

[macchiato]

Yuzo recently closed and these photos remind me of it. An izakaya is just a bar, no need to make it "luxury", especially in the plaza of all places. Luxury or High End has never worked there.

[PhiAlpha]

This looks amazing and I really want to try it, but I am still so worried about places that want to do fancy in the Plaza. This looks more Paseo or Classen Curve or even maybe Midtown.

Who cares where it goes? If it’s good, It will draw a crowd. Ma Der Lao isn’t exactly a dive bar and it has done very well. Good for a Few is a nicer bar/restaurant that seems to be doing well. The Jonathan Stranger concept will also be more upscale than a lot of the places down there. I think people tend to forget that the district is anchored by a performance theater as well. As shown by the Paseo, variety in a district is a good thing.

[PhiAlpha]

Yuzo recently closed and these photos remind me of it. An izakaya is just a bar, no need to make it "luxury", especially in the plaza of all places. Luxury or High End has never worked there.

What “luxury” restaurants have been tried and failed in the plaza? There was a wine bar that was open for 3-5 years and shut down around Covid but always seemed full prior to that…outside of that, what has “never worked?”

[OkieBerto]

Who cares where it goes? If it’s good, It will draw a crowd. Ma Der Lao isn’t exactly a dive bar and it has done very well. Good for a Few is a nicer bar/restaurant that seems to be doing well. The Jonathan Stranger concept will also be more upscale than a lot of the places down there. I think people tend to forget that the district is anchored by a performance theater as well. As shown by the Paseo, variety in a district is a good thing.

There are so many factors to opening a restaurant that the owners SHOULD care about. The type of people who like high end places like this will want good parking for free close to the door, or have a valet system. If you look at this location in general in the Plaza, Oak & Ore struggled or years to get people in their doors. I was actually surprised at how long it lasted.

You also make a point about the Theater, which correct me if I am wrong, owns the parking lot next to this location. If there are theater events going on there will be no parking at all. Employees will also have to walk a long way and likely leave their vehicles parked on a street in the neighborhood.

Good for a Few works because it is attached to a very popular Burger Joint. We all know we like New State, therefore we want to go to the bar. Ma Der Lao actually struggled before Chef Jeff was recognized as a James Beard nominee. I lived a block from the Plaza when he first opened it and it was very dead even during busy times. If it is good enough I hope it gets a lot of business. I want places like this to succeed. I just wish they understood the location better.

You are also forgetting that a similar restaurant just opened two doors down.

[onthestrip]

I dont understand the comments that this place looks too nice, as if restauranteurs in the plaza need to make their establishments simple and low end. Would Mahogany work in the Plaza? Probably not. But nice places in the Plaza is doable. We dont even know the price point of this concept so these comments are way premature. But bravo to them for aiming high with the design of the space, it looks great in the renderings. If its good food and well run, people will come.

Aslo, we can tell just from the pictures that this place will be much more different than the other Asian food place a couple doors down.

[OkieBerto]

I dont understand the comments that this place looks too nice, as if restauranteurs in the plaza need to make their establishments simple and low end. Would Mahogany work in the Plaza? Probably not. But nice places in the Plaza is doable. We dont even know the price point of this concept so these comments are way premature. But bravo to them for aiming high with the design of the space, it looks great in the renderings. If its good food and well run, people will come.

Aslo, we can tell just from the pictures that this place will be much more different than the other Asian food place a couple doors down.

Ambitious, Fancy, and Luxury were some of the words used. No one said, "It looks too nice!" It has more to do with the amount of money they will have to spend to remodel this space and make it a higher scale. The images of the bar and the place settings are telling us they want a high end experience for their customers. Fast Casual or just Casual in general is what has done well in the Plaza. If prices are high, I think they will struggle.

[Jeepnokc]

I wonder how similar the menu will be with the the other Japanese place going in? Seems it would tough to compete for the food/drink market in the Plaza area let alone against a similar concept

[Jake]

What “luxury” restaurants have been tried and failed in the plaza? There was a wine bar that was open for 3-5 years and shut down around Covid but always seemed full prior to that…outside of that, what has “never worked?”

From what I've gleaned this thread, Plaza's ideal restaurant lineup is identical to a decently nice strip mall in Bixby. When does the Cava open?

[PhiAlpha]

From what I've gleaned this thread, Plaza's ideal restaurant lineup is identical to a decently nice strip mall in Bixby. When does the Cava open?

Probably right after the 5 guys and the chilis. I’d say BJ’s but that might be “too luxurious”

[PhiAlpha]

There are so many factors to opening a restaurant that the owners SHOULD care about. The type of people who like high end places like this will want good parking for free close to the door, or have a valet system. If you look at this location in general in the Plaza, Oak & Ore struggled or years to get people in their doors. I was actually surprised at how long it lasted.

You also make a point about the Theater, which correct me if I am wrong, owns the parking lot next to this location. If there are theater events going on there will be no parking at all. Employees will also have to walk a long way and likely leave their vehicles parked on a street in the neighborhood.

Good for a Few works because it is attached to a very popular Burger Joint. We all know we like New State, therefore we want to go to the bar. Ma Der Lao actually struggled before Chef Jeff was recognized as a James Beard nominee. I lived a block from the Plaza when he first opened it and it was very dead even during busy times. If it is good enough I hope it gets a lot of business. I want places like this to succeed. I just wish they understood the location better.

You are also forgetting that a similar restaurant just opened two doors down.

There is more than enough parking down there. I don’t think there is some massive urban core demographic that will only eat at restaurants they can park directly in front of at this point. But also, you don’t know that they won’t have valet service or that the price point of the food is something that would warrant it. Making a lot of assumptions here.

Yes the theater will use the parking lot next to it and the one down the street that people manage to use when they dress up and somehow find it within themselves to walk a few blocks to the theater. Also, are these unique theater goers that don’t eat or get drinks before/after a show? Seems like it might be the type of crowd to seek out a slightly nicer place than the mule, the press or empire to hit up before or after their show. It’s a built in advantage.

I wouldn’t consider oak and ore fancy nor would I say that price point or poor fit for the area caused them to fail. I think it had much more to do with lack of marketing, stagnation, a plethora of additional options opening nearby without it offering anything super unique, and I’m sure Covid probably hurt it worse than many places because of all of that. I can’t even remember if they offered food there…seems like something one who frequented the area should’ve known of the top of my head. That said it lasted for most of a decade so I’d hardly consider that a complete failure.

“Ma Der Lao struggled before Chef Jeff got the James Beard award” was that because of the location (where Goro seemed to do very well for several years) or was it because no one outside of OKCTalk followers knew it was there or what Laotian food consists of? There are a lot of things owners should care about and effective marketing/branding is way more important than “if their restaurant is too luxurious for the diverse and highly trafficked district that I want to put my restaurant in”. Pete has mentioned it a ton but this is one area that many owners here either don’t understand or don’t care about and I would guess it kills more restaurants than anything.

Putting your restaurant in a very popular district, that probably has some of the highest foot traffic in the state, across from a performance theater is not a bad choice of location. Hell Rocco worked on an island in what was a horrible part of town for most of their time there. If they market themselves well, provide a good experience and the food is good…it will work. Don’t do those things and it won’t.

[Pete]

^

23rd & Penn is not a "horrible part of town".

By that standard, 95% of OKC is horrible.

[BDP]

The type of people who like high end places like this will want good parking for free close to the door, or have a valet system. I

People who walk don't like high end food? I'm not sure what the reasoning for that would be.

In any event, I don't think I've ever had to park more than a block off of 16th, unless there is a festival or special event, and have never paid for parking around there. In an urban area, that is good parking for free close to the door. Valet is always nice (though not free), but if places started offering valet on 16th, that would get annoying pretty fast, If they really don't want to walk, they could also use ride share,

Obviously, none of that means it will be successful, I just don't think it'd be THE reason it'd fail. If it's good, it will do well, even if the people who never go anywhere they have to walk never set foot in it.

I do think (hope) the two Japenese concept differentiate enough from each other. My main worry would be whether they can co-exist,

[dankrutka]

People in cities all over the world must be devastated to hear that all nice restaurants require a Walmart parking lot or people with money will refuse to frequent their business! /s

[Oski]

The other Japanese restaurant is just two buildings to the west, so it's likely that at least one will suffer from the competition. Lunch business typically doesn't do well in the Plaza District, it's a great area for brunch and dinner.

[PhiAlpha]

^

23rd & Penn is not a "horrible part of town".

By that standard, 95% of OKC is horrible.

it was pretty bad compared to all of the areas we’re talking about now, especially in terms of good locations for an expensive restaurant, when they opened and was pretty rough for awhile after that , similar to Cheevers in uptown.

[OkieBerto]

There is more than enough parking down there. I don’t think there is some massive urban core demographic that will only eat at restaurants they can park directly in front of at this point. But also, you don’t know that they won’t have valet service or that the price point of the food is something that would warrant it. Making a lot of assumptions here.

Yes the theater will use the parking lot next to it and the one down the street that people manage to use when they dress up and somehow find it within themselves to walk a few blocks to the theater. Also, are these unique theater goers that don’t eat or get drinks before/after a show? Seems like it might be the type of crowd to seek out a slightly nicer place than the mule, the press or empire to hit up before or after their show. It’s a built in advantage.

I wouldn’t consider oak and ore fancy nor would I say that price point or poor fit for the area caused them to fail. I think it had much more to do with lack of marketing, stagnation, a plethora of additional options opening nearby without it offering anything super unique, and I’m sure Covid probably hurt it worse than many places because of all of that. I can’t even remember if they offered food there…seems like something one who frequented the area should’ve known of the top of my head. That said it lasted for most of a decade so I’d hardly consider that a complete failure.

“Ma Der Lao struggled before Chef Jeff got the James Beard award” was that because of the location (where Goro seemed to do very well for several years) or was it because no one outside of OKCTalk followers knew it was there or what Laotian food consists of? There are a lot of things owners should care about and effective marketing/branding is way more important than “if their restaurant is too luxurious for the diverse and highly trafficked district that I want to put my restaurant in”. Pete has mentioned it a ton but this is one area that many owners here either don’t understand or don’t care about and I would guess it kills more restaurants than anything.

Putting your restaurant in a very popular district, that probably has some of the highest foot traffic in the state, across from a performance theater is not a bad choice of location. Hell Rocco worked on an island in what was a horrible part of town for most of their time there. If they market themselves well, provide a good experience and the food is good…it will work. Don’t do those things and it won’t.

Saying that the Plaza would have substantial national chains reside in it is overdoing it. The only one currently is UP/DOWN.

Saying there is more than enough parking down there makes me think you have never lived in Gatewood or Classen Ten Penn. I was there for four years. The only nights with good parking were when no events were happening, and it was Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday.

The theater seems to be an advantage, but it doesn't have a show every week, so it wouldn't be a consistent source of income for the restaurant.

I never said Oak & Ore was fancy; I was commenting on its location. I agree that Oak & Ore had many problems, and the location wasn't the defining factor in closing. However, it may be the only reason it was open for so long.

Chef Jeff tried another concept before Ma Der Lao. It failed so quickly that most people don't even remember it. Not every restaurant will make it in the Plaza, but we have plenty of examples of what type does.

I just drove by, and there has yet to be much progress. Late Summer doesn't look like it will happen.

[OkieBerto]

People who walk don't like high end food? I'm not sure what the reasoning for that would be.

In any event, I don't think I've ever had to park more than a block off of 16th, unless there is a festival or special event, and have never paid for parking around there. In an urban area, that is good parking for free close to the door. Valet is always nice (though not free), but if places started offering valet on 16th, that would get annoying pretty fast, If they really don't want to walk, they could also use ride share,

Obviously, none of that means it will be successful, I just don't think it'd be THE reason it'd fail. If it's good, it will do well, even if the people who never go anywhere they have to walk never set foot in it.

I do think (hope) the two Japenese concept differentiate enough from each other. My main worry would be whether they can co-exist,

You seem to forget who has most of the money in this City. They are likely not looking to walk far for dinner. So price maybe more of a defining factor when it comes to the success of this restaurant.

[OkieBerto]

People in cities all over the world must be devastated to hear that all nice restaurants require a Walmart parking lot or people with money will refuse to frequent their business! /s

Most other countries think Americans are crazy when it comes to cars and parking. We don't live in a walking state in case you didn't notice. We even have parking requirements for new builds.

[Jersey Boss]

And most first world countries are more urban in nature with a culture of mass public transit.

[Pete]

it was pretty bad compared to all of the areas we’re talking about now, especially in terms of good locations for an expensive restaurant, when they opened and was pretty rough for awhile after that , similar to Cheevers in uptown.

Rococo wasn't any more expensive than any of the places in the Plaza which is less than a mile away. And Tony's Italian Specialties had a long and successful run in that same location. Social did well just around the corner.

23rd and Penn has OCU right next door, Shepherd neighborhood is directly west, Gatewood to the south and the rest of the area is just fine.

I get tired of people looking down their noses at anything not Heritage Hills or Edmond. The huge majority of people in OKC live in areas just like this, including yours truly and I love my neighborhood. "Horrible" is a strong and denigrating word.

[BDP]

You seem to forget who has most of the money in this City. They are likely not looking to walk far for dinner. So price maybe more of a defining factor when it comes to the success of this restaurant.

Maybe you just don't know everyone in the city who has money.

This is honestly a strange take. Are you saying that people who have money no longer will walk a couple of blocks for a meal or that people who will walk don't have any money. lol

And what are we talking about here, anyway? Is this supposed to be the most expensive restaurant in the city targeted to senior citizens or something?

[Plutonic Panda]

I wouldn’t say 23rd and Penn is horrible. But I also would not argue with someone that said that it is. I mean, look at this Google streetview and image. My own personal anecdote is that I have seen some pretty raunchy stuff at the intersection.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qRVuw7xtwzVBqQy26?g_st=ic

I do agree that horrible is a pretty strong term. But then again, it’s kinda relative to what you’re referring to.

From my circle of people that I know, and am related to in Oklahoma City metropolitan area, Anything that is not Edmond, Far northwest OKC, Or Nichols Hills, Has a negative stereotype. I don’t all agree with that. But I suspect a lot of people feel that way.