Epic Charter Schools

[Pete]

This is looking very, very bad for the two principal owners.

I know the FBI has been investigating them for over 2 years.

https://oklahoman.com/article/567291...hools-released

[TheTravellers]

About time! For those interested in more, check out Oklahoma Watch and NonDoc, they've done quite a few in-depth articles on Epic over the years.

[TheTravellers]

Board sets termination hearing on Epic authorization

[FighttheGoodFight]

There has been great reporting on them for years. You could just tell they were shady the whole time and I hope Oklahoma gets some of that money back.

[Pete]

Based on the extravagent spending of one of their co-founders, I would not expect a lot of the money to be recovered.

[jn1780]

Its a shame how many parents had to turn toward epic during this pandemic. The public schools were slow to adapt to virtual learning.

[emtefury]

The state virtual school is starting the process at terminating its contract with Epic.

[Jersey Boss]

Its a shame how many parents had to turn toward epic during this pandemic. The public schools were slow to adapt to virtual learning.

It was also a shame the amount of money that was poured into these for profit organizations at the expense of common education.
Think how much Epic has spent since just Jan. of 2020 on advertising for students to enroll. Was that spending in the interest of educating childten?
Add to this the expense involved in the investigation

[TheTravellers]

The state virtual school is starting the process at terminating its contract with Epic.

Um, yeah, that's what I posted in #3.

[king183]

You had to know something was shady with Epic simply based on the MILLIONS they spent advertising on Oklahoma tv and radio. How could a public school possibly afford that amount of advertising?

Edit: Just saw Jersey Boss touched on a similar point. The tons of ads I heard weren't even trying to get enrollment; they were pure PR after several investigations were launched.

Also, note that Sen Ron Sharp, one of the foremost advocates of investigating Epic, was defeated in his primary this year. I'm sure Epic associated people and orgs funded much of the campaign to defeat him.

[Jeepnokc]

I have gone through audits and have dealt with many cases where things don't always shake out the ways they are presented initially. There is a saying in the legal system is that your case is always strongest when you file it. EPIC is entitled to an opportunity to defend itself as well as time to look at the audit and allegations. It is what it is but lets hear both sides of the story. I will be more interested in this story once they actually have a hearing and allow both sides to present and challenge allegations.

[dankrutka]

For profit education has consistently been fraught with corruption, lack of ethics, and poor understanding of education. This really isn’t surprising.

[Rover]

I have gone through audits and have dealt with many cases where things don't always shake out the ways they are presented initially. There is a saying in the legal system is that your case is always strongest when you file it. EPIC is entitled to an opportunity to defend itself as well as time to look at the audit and allegations. It is what it is but lets hear both sides of the story. I will be more interested in this story once they actually have a hearing and allow both sides to present and challenge allegations.

Plus, hope all news and media such as this one have a chance to do a thorough, balanced and fair investigation in the public’s interest.

[GoGators]

Their entire business model is just based around taking taxpayer money away from public education for personal enrichment at the detriment of Oklahoma children. I hope this is a wake up call for the people in this state who advocated for the law changes that allowed this to happen.

[dankrutka]

For profit education has consistently been fraught with corruption, lack of ethics, and poor understanding of education. This really isn’t surprising.

I have gone through audits and have dealt with many cases where things don't always shake out the ways they are presented initially. There is a saying in the legal system is that your case is always strongest when you file it. EPIC is entitled to an opportunity to defend itself as well as time to look at the audit and allegations. It is what it is but lets hear both sides of the story. I will be more interested in this story once they actually have a hearing and allow both sides to present and challenge allegations.

This is fair. I've read the same reports everyone else has. I really don't know enough about the EPIC situation personally to pass judgment as I implied in my last post. My problem is with the for profit model that sucks money from public schools. I think it's a bad model that's bad for our communities. I thought I should clarify my comments are more generally aimed at for profit charters than Epic specifically.

[DoctorTaco]

The thing that bothers me the most is that every parent i know has good things to say about EPIC. They have a decent model and execute it well. But just imagine the good they could do if the owners weren't gaming the system to pump up their profits and metrics (such as kicking out poorly-performing students before their poor performance was reported out via standardized tests and also if they weren't siphoning money off for themselves, for ads, for political campaigns etc.? Oh and also imagine if they weren't gamein

[Jersey Boss]

The thing that bothers me the most is that every parent i know has good things to say about EPIC. They have a decent model and execute it well. But just imagine the good they could do if the owners weren't gaming the system to pump up their profits and metrics (such as kicking out poorly-performing students before their poor performance was reported out via standardized tests and also if they weren't siphoning money off for themselves, for ads, for political campaigns etc.? Oh and also imagine if they weren't gamein

I'd be more interested in what public schools have to say about the academic standing of students going to public schools in Norman, Edmond, Broken Arrow, etc. after a few years of EPIC education.

[Rover]

Their entire business model is just based around taking taxpayer money away from public education for personal enrichment at the detriment of Oklahoma children. I hope this is a wake up call for the people in this state who advocated for the law changes that allowed this to happen.

Like trying to privatize Medicaid in OK? Or other public services?
For all those who think privatization is a panacea for government services, they ignore motives and history of private companies and their leadership. Assuming they are more righteous or capable than public servants is just naiveté.

[TheTravellers]

I'd be more interested in what public schools have to say about the academic standing of students going to public schools in Norman, Edmond, Broken Arrow, etc. after a few years of EPIC education.

Here's something that's along those lines:

https://oklahomawatch.org/2020/02/27...ll-in-college/

"In a five-month investigation into Epic’s college-going rates, Oklahoma Watch found that fewer than one in five 2019 graduates enrolled in a public Oklahoma college or university last fall. Its rate was lower than rates for all of the state’s 10 largest school districts, according to an Oklahoma Watch analysis of education data. The data was collected from every college and university in the state.

Epic reported far more high school graduates than the 10 districts, but far fewer enrolled in a state college."

"One measure of students’ preparedness for college is their score on the ACT college readiness exam.

Most regional universities want to see at least a 20 composite score out of a possible 35. Oklahoma State University admits students with minimum of 22 to 24, and the average score of University of Oklahoma freshman is 26. The state average is 18.9.

Epic’s graduating class of 2019 scored an average 16.5. That’s a significant drop from a 20.2 the previous year, when far fewer students took the exam.

Just 4% of Epic students met all four of the college readiness benchmarks established by the ACT, compared to 15% statewide."

[5alive]

Wow...eye opening!

[Pete]

Those ACT scores are atrocious.

Epic will have their opportunity to refute the findings, but from what I know from law enforcement that have been investigating this for years, I do not think it is going to end well for them.

[jn1780]

Here's something that's along those lines:

https://oklahomawatch.org/2020/02/27...ll-in-college/

"In a five-month investigation into Epic’s college-going rates, Oklahoma Watch found that fewer than one in five 2019 graduates enrolled in a public Oklahoma college or university last fall. Its rate was lower than rates for all of the state’s 10 largest school districts, according to an Oklahoma Watch analysis of education data. The data was collected from every college and university in the state.

Epic reported far more high school graduates than the 10 districts, but far fewer enrolled in a state college."

"One measure of students’ preparedness for college is their score on the ACT college readiness exam.

Most regional universities want to see at least a 20 composite score out of a possible 35. Oklahoma State University admits students with minimum of 22 to 24, and the average score of University of Oklahoma freshman is 26. The state average is 18.9.

Epic’s graduating class of 2019 scored an average 16.5. That’s a significant drop from a 20.2 the previous year, when far fewer students took the exam.

Just 4% of Epic students met all four of the college readiness benchmarks established by the ACT, compared to 15% statewide."

Thats bad, but to be fair Epic attracts a certain type of student/parent. The parent that blames all of their kids problems on the public school system are more likely to use epic. Never take personal responsibility for their kid. This was pre-pandemic anyway. They will probably get a boast in scores this year because they got a surge of kids coming from public schools.

[Rover]

The thing that bothers me the most is that every parent i know has good things to say about EPIC. They have a decent model and execute it well. But just imagine the good they could do if the owners weren't gaming the system to pump up their profits and metrics (such as kicking out poorly-performing students before their poor performance was reported out via standardized tests and also if they weren't siphoning money off for themselves, for ads, for political campaigns etc.? Oh and also imagine if they weren't gamein

I know parents and students of Epic too. It is easy for kids to game their system too. This is like the affordable insurance claim from insurer's not wanting to pay for pre-existing conditions and long term illnesses ..... they can sell you cheap insurance, but it doesn't really fill the real requirement. You don't always get what you pay for, but usually do. Just remember, there is no such thing as a "free" lunch.

[SouthOfTheVillage]

I’m glad to see the Epic guys are finally getting their comeuppance. Never a good deal when a group so flagrantly takes advantage of the taxpayers.

[Plutonic Panda]

More news regarding Epic:

https://kfor.com/news/local/auditor-...arter-schools/