Putnam City Schools to vote on purchasing 10,000 iPads

[Plutonic Panda]

Wowzers..... I don't really know to say. I think it would be cool lending out iPads for students, but would they really be used for educational purposes? Also 6$ mil. is a lot of money for iPads. I don't really have an opinion on this one. ^_^

[Midtowner]

Wowzers..... I don't really know to say. I think it would be cool lending out iPads for students, but would they really be used for educational purposes? Also 6$ mil. is a lot of money for iPads. I don't really have an opinion on this one. ^_^

If the kids can keep them, they could be highly viable for the purpose of replacing paper textbooks.

[onthestrip]

It said it would provide enough iPads to have 1 for every 1.9 students.

[Plutonic Panda]

If the kids can keep them, they could be highly viable for the purpose of replacing paper textbooks.

Yeah that what I was thinking too. They could make cost in the long run. But, I would think they should require anyone who get one to purchase their own protective case for the tablet.

[BBatesokc]

I think its the future and regardless of opinions that is the direction things are going. Personally, I love the idea. Unfortunately the reality is that teenagers have a hard enough time keeping up with their keys, books, cells phones, etc. I did read the proposal, but I wonder how they will handle lost, stolen and broken iPads? Hopefully they all have large serial numbers on them so people don't get them confused. Also wonder if the kids will be able to instal their own apps/music or if they iPads will be restricted.

[kevinpate]

We pay teachers far below their value to society, but there are funds for ipads? Well, funds enough that 1.9 students can each share an ipad. So Susie can do homework on Mon and Wed and every other weekend, and Jonie can do homework on Tue, Thu, and every other weekend. And, in class they can just scrunch together at a desk to see the clips, articles, etc. that go along with a lesson. If if Susie's beau steps on the ipad on a date night, well, Jonie probably had a date the following night and wasn't planning on studying anyway.

Yeah, this makes a lot of sense ... as an example of how to botch a plan.

[Martin]

We can pay teachers far below their value to society, but there are funds for ipads?

not to take away from your point, but i'd imagine this is funded by federal grant money rather than the district's budget. -M

[Jim Kyle]

not to take away from your point, but i'd imagine this is funded by federal grant money rather than the district's budget. -M

If that's the case, why have a bond election? It might be grant money in part, but the bond issue is definitely to raise local money. I'd be in favor of it, were it to go to the teachers and not the administrators, but to buy gadgets that are obsolete by the time they are shipped (as are all things digital, sadly), definitely not a good idea...

[onthestrip]

not to take away from your point, but i'd imagine this is funded by federal grant money rather than the district's budget. -M

It's a bond issue they will be voting on. It will raise someone property tax $36 for every $1000 they pay in property taxes.

[Martin]

oh... that's what i get for not reading up on this for myself. wow. technology for students is great and all but certainly there are better things that this money can be spent on, especially if it means an increase in property taxes. -M

[MadMonk]

I hope they have a method for mobile device management to keep track of those. Otherwise, I'm sure a lot will simply walk off, never to be seen again.

[dankrutka]

iPads can be a great tool, but a lot of districts buy them without even knowing what do with them. You have to have great training. I think iPads are a bit of a fad and small computers would be a better buy. There are so many things that iPads don't do...

[BBatesokc]

I'm thinking they might could better spend our tax dollars with something cheaper like the Kindle.

[Pete]

Keep in mind Apple typically gives massive discounts for schools, which is why you see Macs in almost every educational computer lab, from elementary through graduate schools.

There are already 2,600 iPads in use by the district and there are far more education apps and publications for the iPad than any other tablet.

Also, apps for iPad are pretty tightly controlled, so that's a good screening mechanism right out of the gate.


I'm sure they've thought through the maintenance/repair/loss issues, as they would be far from the first school to issue iPads or computers to the majority of their students.

I think it's really an ambitious and forward-thinking plan and I have no doubt it would be a awesome teaching aid, and not just for electronic textbooks.


It's way, way past time to revolutionize the centuries old paradigm of a single adult standing in front of a class of 20-40 kids monologging. The educational system -- due to it's completely insular nature -- has been way too slow to change; arguably the most lagging large business sector in the world.

[SoonerDave]

This is a public perception move more than anything, IMHO.

Public perception: "Ooh, gee whiz, they're getting iPads, they're high-tech, they're cutting-edge. They made the news!"

Reality: About 70-90% of the books needed aren't available in an electronic format consumable on an iPad or any other electronic format. Teachers are still absurdly underpaid for the expectations given them, or are expected to overcome the inertia from absentee parents that don't realize parent is a verb, or to overcome the broken down walls, windows, doors, fixtures, desks, air conditioners, heaters, and buildings that have gone untouched for months or years.

But they'll have iPads!

Sorry, I"m going to stop here, because if I don't, I'm just going to go into serious rant mode. And, no, this isn't even close to it. This is just more infuriation handed down to our children by mindless and clueless school bureaucrats because it looks cool, it seems educational, and is coupled with the perception of the availability of perpetual subsidy by the taxpayer.

[BoulderSooner]

sorry but the idea that teachers are absurdly underpaid simply is not true ..

[SoonerDave]

sorry but the idea that teachers are absurdly underpaid simply is not true ..

Boulder, unless you have some first-hand knowledge of my wife's paycheck combined with the hours she puts in, you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Pete]

GOOD teachers are underpaid, BAD and average teachers are way over-paid and over-protected.

The teachers unions will not allow performance based incentives, so this is the system we have. And spare us the "teaching isn't like making widgets" argument, because virtually all job-related performance is evaluated pretty subjectively (we ARE a service-based economy, after all) and that process hasn't exactly held back U.S. business and industry.

In other words, teachers only have themselves to blame for their pay scales yet they want to throw that up as an obstacle whenever innovation or reform is proposed. Of course you never hear about how they are largely protected by tenure and receive way more in pension than almost anyone in private industry.

I also am tired of the "work so many hours" mantra. What motivated professional doesn't put in 10+ hours a day and take their work home with them?


I have tremendous respect for the good teachers out there but collectively, there are too many that hold education back through the constant drumbeat of rhetoric.

[BoulderSooner]

Boulder, unless you have some first-hand knowledge of my wife's paycheck combined with the hours she puts in, you have no clue what you're talking about.

she is not absurdly underpaid based on the hours she is REQUIRED to work in a year compared to any other job with comparable educational requirements

[ewoodard70]

Pete;
I would like to hear what you would base a teacher's performance incentive on. I would also like to know what you think a teacher's benefit package and pension plan actually is. I am just curious as to what you are basing your statements on.

[Pete]

A teacher's performance could be easily evaluated by a principal, department head, committee of peers... The same ways all other jobs are usually evaluated. And just like any other business, those that receive the best evaluations get bigger raises and those who aren't pulling their weight are put on notice and then terminated if there isn't significant improvement. Again, pretty standard operating procedure in any other business (save some government jobs).


As far as benefits and pensions, I am merely comparing what the teachers I know receive in these areas as opposed to what others typically receive in the same pay class. Teachers still receive good health insurance and pensions... The latter is almost non-existent in private industry these days and the former is increasingly rare.

Teachers can leave every day at 2 or 3PM if they choose, get tons of paid holiday leave (Christmas, spring break, fall break, etc.) plus every single summer off where they can either teach summer school or get another job for more income -- or merely just take months off every single year.

They are also routinely given automatic pay raises for completing advanced degrees; usually protected by tenure, etc.


I'm not saying teaching is some sort of easy street, but there are lots of upsides that never get spoken about because ALL you ever hear about is how they are woefully underpaid.

BTW, the average teacher in Oklahoma is paid around $45K in salary for 9 months of work, and benefits are year-round. Many teachers make well more than this and supplement their income in many other ways. It's certainly not fantastic pay but it's not horrible either.

[SoonerDave]

[Quote=Pete]

Pete, while I respect your opinion, I would as respectfully as possible like to point out a few errors in your last posting.

Teachers can leave every day at 2 or 3PM if they choose,

Simply not accurate.

Not at my wife's school. School doesn't release until 3:30 pm at the latest, and she cannot leave until the last of her students are picked up - and if a parent opts to delay picking up their charge by a half-hour (or more) for whatever reason, she stays until they arrive.

If everyone leaves exactly on time, she then has to prepare paperwork and written lesson plans for the next day's classes, which means making close to four-dozen sets of copies assuming the one copier in the building isn't broken, or other teachers aren't waiting in line for it. And that's further assuming there's not a mandatory faculty meeting, specialty council meeting, book selection meeting, mandatory training session, continuing education seminar, workshop, parent-teacher conference, or IEP (special-needs education) planning meeting (to name only a few I can recall).

And if any of those things interfere with getting paperwork ready for the next day, all that copying and preparation gets pushed back later in the week, or, at times, to avoid meeting conflicts, the following week's paperwork gets copied and organized in advance on a Friday afternoon, which pushes "go home" time to around 6pm or later.

And this doesn't even scratch the surface of the kinds of things that cause drastic departures in schedules.

Then, we get to talk about what she does once she goes home, off the clock, dealing with parents angered that they're being bothered because their precious little SuzyQ got in trouble, misbehaved, didn't turn in proper papers, or didn't turn in money for some event.

I'll be honest with you, Pete. I used to be one of those people who thought teachers kicked back at 2:30-3pm and relaxed.

I was wrong. I hope in some way I've conveyed just how wrong.

BTW, the average teacher in Oklahoma is paid around $45K in salary for 9 months of work, and benefits are year-round.

My wife has been in OK public schools for not quite a decade. She makes about 2/3's that. She's received great annual reviews, compliments from principals, and received appointment to special councils, and the automatic step increases have put her well short of your $45K figure.

Teachers still receive good health insurance and pensions

My wife has the option for insurance, but it is so poor we decline it in favor of my own health coverage (for which we're very thankful). And the Oklahoma Teachers Retirement system is one of the most notoriously underfunded (bordering on insolvent?) such funds in the country.

Yes, she does get two months summer break, plus the breaks you point out.

[SoonerDave]

she is not absurdly underpaid based on the hours she is REQUIRED to work in a year compared to any other job with comparable educational requirements

Define "required." If you limit your answer to the clock hours on the contract, you are being disingenuously naive. Please read my response to Pete on perceptions versus reality.

And, again, you really have no clue what you're talking about, Boulder. You really, really don't.

[Pete]

Dave, you know I mean absolutely no disrespect to your wife, who is probably one of the great teachers that deserve well more than she is paid.

I should also state that for seven years I ran a nonprofit in Los Angeles that provided services to at-risk teens and their families and a big part of our work was in junior highs and high schools, so I not only interacted with teachers but was frequently in classrooms while they were teaching. So believe me, I have a very deep appreciation for the challenges and hard work that goes into that profession. I'm not sure I could do what they do, for any amount of money.

It's precisely because teaching is such an important and challenging job that I believe the unions are doing not only a great disservice to the good teachers out there, but also the educational system as a whole.

For the most part, they are interested in protecting teachers at all costs, even the ones that have no business being in that profession. What you have now is basically a form of communism, whereby everyone is paid and treated pretty much the same, regardless of performance and dedication. Sure, you'll always have a job but those motivated and passionate will never be fairly compensated.

[SoonerDave]

Dave, you know I mean absolutely no disrespect to your wife, who is probably one of the great teachers that deserve well more than she is paid.

I should also state that for seven years I ran a nonprofit in Los Angeles that provided services to at-risk teens and their families and a big part of our work was in junior highs and high schools, so I not only interacted with teachers but was frequently in classrooms while they were teaching. So believe me, I have a very deep appreciation for the challenges and hard work that go into that profession. I'm not sure I could do what they do, for any amount of money.

It's precisely because teaching is such an important and challenging job that I believe the unions are doing not only a great disservice to the good teachers out there, but also the educational system as a whole.

For the most part, they are interested in protecting teachers at all costs, even the ones that have no business being in that profession. What you have now is basically a form of communism, whereby everyone is paid and treated pretty much the same, regardless of performance and dedication. Sure, you'll always have a job but those motivated and passionate will never be fairly compensated.

I know you don't mean any disrespect, Pete; it's all good I see my wife come home some afternoons, once in a while in tears, out of complete frustration at knowing no matter what she does, some of the kids in her classes are in a financial/home environment that 6-7 hours at school aren't going to fix. Broken families. Grandparents raising grandkids. Brothers raising sisters. And so on.

I am 100% behind you in the way teachers unions are destroying the profession and the educational system. I couldn't have expressed those sentiments any better than you just did.

There's no magic bullet to fix the education system, but I sure wish we could figure out a way to pry it out of the hands of those that control it right now.