OG&E Tower

[Pete]

I fully expect the DDRC to approve the demolition; they often respectfully override the recommendations of the planning staff.

I also fully expect the design of the new project to be approved.


As we've seen countless times, our current system -- and very tight-knit business community -- is very unlikely to put up much fight when it comes to local businesses.

They generally approve what is proposed, with very few exceptions.

[RodH]

I agree. If the demo permit is denied because the building is too significant wouldn't it always be too significant? Those hoping for something grander on the site may never see it if the demo permit is denied. It would surely have a chilling effect on any potential developer. If a developer can't get a demo permit to build new corporate headquarters for an over hundred year-old local company whose CEO is president of the Chamber of Commerce I doubt that anyone else would be willing to take on the challenge. Considering the recently passed law regarding vacant property I wonder what would be the recourse for the city if stage center is just abandoned.

[HangryHippo]

I fully expect the DDRC to approve the demolition; they often respectfully override the recommendations of the planning staff.

I also fully expect the design of the new project to be approved.


As we've seen countless times, our current system -- and very tight-knit business community -- is very unlikely to put up much fight when it comes to local businesses.

They generally approve what is proposed, with very few exceptions.

This seems to be a huge part of OKC's problem in general.

[Teo9969]

So what can be done to fix the system, most importantly the ridiculous standard that demolition can occur on its own merits without any idea of what's going to replace what is to be demolished..

[OKCisOK4me]

Doesn't Williams have to go in to the DDRC meeting with actual specific, arcitectural plans and/or a model instead of conceptual renderings? Did Devon present conceptual renderings to the DDRC when they had their meeting? Just wondering because everyone here has gotten so worked up with these renderings...myself included. I hope he presents something better.

[Pete]

^

He will when it's time to gain approval for what he plans to build.

At this point, he doesn't have to show anything in order to get a demo permit, although he did submit the conceptual renderings we've dissected here.

[BoulderSooner]

Doesn't Williams have to go in to the DDRC meeting with actual specific, arcitectural plans and/or a model instead of conceptual renderings? Did Devon present conceptual renderings to the DDRC when they had their meeting? Just wondering because everyone here has gotten so worked up with these renderings...myself included. I hope he presents something better.

And nothing he presents (as to what he wants to build) is binding on him for the demo permit. They can't put strings on it.

[catch22]

Need to look at your options and the big picture.

You do NOT want them to deny demo because of historical or architectural significance. That will prevent any meaningful future development of this site for many, many years. bad move.

They don't have the legal power to deny because it's not tall enough.

They have to approve demolition. However, now is the time to have a real discussion with him. He will be there, and he will be listening. You are more likely to see some changes, if he is aware of them now. Than if he has already paid millions in architectural plans.

Need to be smart about this if you plan to protest, because the current protest will prevent ANY development at all for the foreseeable future.

[zookeeper]

And nothing he presents (as to what he wants to build) is binding on him for the demo permit. They can't put strings on it.

Then what's the point?

[BoulderSooner]

Need to look at your options and the big picture.

You do NOT want them to deny demo because of historical or architectural significance. That will prevent any meaningful future development of this site for many, many years. bad move.

They don't have the legal power to deny because it's not tall enough.

They have to approve demolition. However, now is the time to have a real discussion with him. He will be there, and he will be listening. You are more likely to see some changes, if he is aware of them now. Than if he has already paid millions in architectural plans.

Need to be smart about this if you plan to protest, because the current protest will prevent ANY development at all for the foreseeable future.

This

[Pete]

The site still could be redeveloped without demolishing Stage Center, i.e. adaptive use.

And even though that seems unlikely, we now have someone with a $4 million investment to recoup. That changes the motivations considerably.

[Spartan]

Wrong. Deny for any reason as long as its empirically strong. A better development can and will override this.

[Pete]

How would people feel if this development merely slid down to the other side of the Arts plaza?

That property is almost all owned by the City and it's about the same size.

[OKCisOK4me]

^

He will when it's time to gain approval for what he plans to build.

At this point, he doesn't have to show anything in order to get a demo permit, although he did submit the conceptual renderings we've dissected here.

Gotcha. Thanks. Well, then I hope the committee approves demo and I pray Williams submits real architectural plans that aren't the conceptual drawing. Only thing we can do now is have faith.

[Teo9969]

How would people feel if this development merely slid down to the other side of the Arts plaza?

That property is almost all owned by the City and it's about the same size.

Same as I do about this here. I don't think long term that either side of the California easement is more important.

Every development surrounding MBG should be no less than $250M.

This is a perfect development for the NW corner of Dean A McGee and Hudson, and hey, lookie there, the current OGE headquarters are right there too!

[Pete]

The reason I mention the swap is this: If the City denies the demo permit and wants to get serious about seeing Stage Center redeveloped, they could merely swap properties and let Williams do his development to the immediate south.

[bchris02]

The reason I mention the swap is this: If the City denies the demo permit and wants to get serious about seeing Stage Center redeveloped, they could merely swap properties and let Williams do his development to the immediate south.

Part of me feels Rainey may have been planning on flipping this all along. Why else would he insist on such a subpar development on the Stage Center site? There are plenty of sites nearby he could have got for cheaper right? The reason is he couldn't flip any other block as easy or make as big of a profit as the Stage Center block.

[BoulderSooner]

The reason I mention the swap is this: If the City denies the demo permit and wants to get serious about seeing Stage Center redeveloped, they could merely swap properties and let Williams do his development to the immediate south.

What. He might build is not really part of the demo process. And if they deny him based on preserving the stage center they will have a very hard time ever letting anyone demo it

Part of me feels Rainey may have been planning on flipping this all along. Why else would he insist on such a subpar development on the Stage Center site? There are plenty of sites nearby he could have got for cheaper right? The reason is he couldn't flip any other block as easy or make as big of a profit as the Stage Center block.

In no way is this a subpar development

[Pete]

What. He might build is not really part of the demo process. And if they deny him based on preserving the stage center they will have a very hard time ever letting anyone demo it

I'm saying if the City is serious about not demo-ing Stage Center and having it renovated, they could swap Williams for the land they own immediately south and then proactively work to find an adaptive use.

[zookeeper]

What. He might build is not really part of the demo process. And if they deny him based on preserving the stage center they will have a very hard time ever letting anyone demo it



In no way is this a subpar development

We finally know who BoulderSooner is!














(just kidding)

[Urbanized]

They're not. Some folks in the planning department made a courageous and correct stance in recommending denial, but don't confuse that with an overall desire on the City's part to preserve and rehabilitate the existing structure. DDRC likely approves, and if not the BOA overrules. The building WILL come down.

[OKCRT]

I hope he gets a big DENIED stamped in bright red letters on his plan to demolish the SC. No, not because the Stage Center is some great wonder of the world but because his plan is way sub par. Build a world class facility or move on and let someone else build in the future. Put the property back up for sale for a small profit and I bet someone buys it up. Sell it to Continental and let them build a real skyscraper. Sell it to Mid First and let them do it. There were other offers for that property. Oh what could have been....

[BoulderSooner]

I hope he gets a big DENIED stamped in bright red letters on his plan to demolish the SC. No, not because the Stage Center is some great wonder of the world but because his plan is way sub par. Build a world class facility or move on and let someone else build in the future. Put the property back up for sale for a small profit and I bet someone buys it up. Sell it to Continental and let them build a real skyscraper. Sell it to Mid First and let them do it. There were other offers for that property. Oh what could have been....

Again if they deny him on the basis that they have to preserve the structure (the only way they can deny him) that would apply to every one else as well. What he builds is not part of the application

[zookeeper]

Again if they deny him on the basis that they have to preserve the structure (the only way they can deny him) that would apply to every one else as well. What he builds is not part of the application

Yes. I hope this is exactly what happens. Anything different, interesting or polarizing seems to be expendable in this city. The Stage Center should be preserved. With that decision made and out of the away serious thoughts toward a new use can commence without questions hanging over its fate.

[OKCRT]

Yes. I hope this is exactly what happens. Anything different, interesting or polarizing seems to be expendable in this city. The Stage Center should be preserved. With that decision made and out of the away serious thoughts toward a new use can commence without questions hanging over its fate.

The problem is,there is no one that is going to refurbish the Stage center. That is pretty obvious but maybe the city thinks there's still a chance that someone will save the day and spend multi millions to do a rehab.

But the OG&E building that is planned should not be the only option for that site. Either we get this subpar OG&E building or the Stage Center sits untill it rots to the ground? Let it rot I say. Then in a few years someone will come in and buy the property and build a world class skyscraper. Once the city is convinced that there isn't anyone that is gonna save the Stage center they will have to let it be demolished. Not sure if they are at this point yet so lets hope this plan gets denied.