Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[The Devils Architect]

Largely unrestrained growth in Oklahoma City and the ongoing drought

[Midtowner]

Largely unrestrained growth in Oklahoma City and the ongoing drought

There is a drought, sure, but Oklahoma City has a ridiculous amount of reserve water. You can go back into this thread which I've described as live-blogging the rain and you'll be able to observe the endless cycle of folks hand wringing because the sky is falling versus hand wrining because we're having to release water from Hefner downstream. I can only conclude that you've been consuming content about Lake Meade and and the Las Vegas water supply, which is really a dire situation, or Los Angelas and its water supply and somehow think the situation in Oklahoma is similar.

It isn't. Not remotely. We are poised for massive growth over the next decades. The city's water infrastructure is about the best planned aspect of the city. There is a huge pipeline project in the works which isn't even necessary to satisfy current demand. And there are plans beyond that.

[The Devils Architect]

Cool, but this is surface water, not ground water. Unless there's some kind of comprehensive water use plan in the works which actually considers aquifer depletion rates, I'd say you have a point. But you don't have a point.

That's sort of the problem isn't it - all of central Oklahoma's towns & cities have municipal wells, as well as many of the rural water districts, (above and beyond farm and ranch operation wells and private residential wells.)

Urban users increasingly deplete water coming from the municipal wells and surface reservoirs around here and require us to deplete Canton and Atoka for no other reason that we allow people to have lush green lawns 10 months out of the year and refill pools every week

[Plutonic Panda]

Your reasoning is that since there is water that can be used we should go ahead and use it on wasteful lawns and gardens? OKC will need to get used to less and less water being available to them and that includes using less water overall on vanity.

Yes, pet lawns should and hopefully will continue to be a thing. I love my lawns and enjoy working on them.

[Bellaboo]

Urban users increasingly deplete water coming from the municipal wells and surface reservoirs around here and require us to deplete Canton and Atoka for no other reason that we allow people to have lush green lawns 7 months out of the year and 5 minutes a day from the garden hose to keep the pools full

Let me fix this for you.

I believe in conservation, but not to make it look way worse than what it is.

[mugofbeer]

That's sort of the problem isn't it - all of central Oklahoma's towns & cities have municipal wells, as well as many of the rural water districts, (above and beyond farm and ranch operation wells and private residential wells.)

Urban users increasingly deplete water coming from the municipal wells and surface reservoirs around here and require us to deplete Canton and Atoka for no other reason that we allow people to have lush green lawns 10 months out of the year and refill pools every week

Seems to be plenty of water leaving the Oklahoma in those rivers into states with an excess of water. You're criticizing people for making use of the very reason those lakes were built.......

Refill pools every week? Really?

[The Devils Architect]

Seems to be plenty of water leaving the Oklahoma in those rivers into states with an excess of water. You're criticizing people for making use of the very reason those lakes were built.......

The lakes constructed in OKlahoma during the WPA generation and subsequent federal acts were not just for reservoir drinking water storage, primarily, they were originally constructed for flood control during wet seasons, then additional lakes for potable water storage / recreation.

At some point, we're going to be forced to stop extending the urban service boundaries and mandate xeriscaping or construct additional reservoirs

Refill pools every week? Really?

Yes, when I worked for the the City of Norman 20ish years ago, during a previous drought and mandatory water rationing, there were residents that were absolutely defiant about circumventing first odd/even rationing, then bans on anything but hand watering. There were about 20-30 users on the west side of town that were using so much water every month that the the city suspected they had leaks downstream from their meters.

Nope, refilling pools every 10-20 days because of the temps making their pool water uncomfortable and/or the high temps overwhelming the pool chemicals.

[The Devils Architect]

Let me fix this for you.

I believe in conservation, but not to make it look way worse than what it is.

A lot of people believe in conservation until it inconveniences them

[BoulderSooner]

There is a drought, sure, but Oklahoma City has a ridiculous amount of reserve water. You can go back into this thread which I've described as live-blogging the rain and you'll be able to observe the endless cycle of folks hand wringing because the sky is falling versus hand wrining because we're having to release water from Hefner downstream. I can only conclude that you've been consuming content about Lake Meade and and the Las Vegas water supply, which is really a dire situation, or Los Angelas and its water supply and somehow think the situation in Oklahoma is similar.

It isn't. Not remotely. We are poised for massive growth over the next decades. The city's water infrastructure is about the best planned aspect of the city. There is a huge pipeline project in the works which isn't even necessary to satisfy current demand. And there are plans beyond that.

the OKC Water trust has done an amazing job going back all the way to the 1980's being fiscally responsible and securing lots and lots of water rights for the future of OKC ..

as you said OKC has 0 water issue for the next 50-100 years ..

[josefromtulsa]

OKC is better poised with their infrastructure in comparison to other cities. A coworker of mine helps with the Garber-Wellington Association and he's been raising the alarm about water woes coming to the area. While OKC is willing to spend the hundreds of million dollars for new pipelines the other communities are not wanting to pitch in and so later there will be issues. And heck Norman and Ada might just build their reservoir but I doubt it.

Also the arid-humid boundary which used to lay on the 100th meridian is moving east. Some research is placing it at the 98th Meridian which is right over OKC. Cant build your way out of climate change...

[mugofbeer]

The lakes constructed in OKlahoma during the WPA generation and subsequent federal acts were not just for reservoir drinking water storage, primarily, they were originally constructed for flood control during wet seasons, then additional lakes for potable water storage / recreation.

At some point, we're going to be forced to stop extending the urban service boundaries and mandate xeriscaping or construct additional reservoirs.

It may have started that way in the 1930s when the dust bowl was ending but it very quickly became a water resource for OKC when Enid failed to use it.

Yes, when I worked for the the City of Norman 20ish years ago, during a previous drought and mandatory water rationing, there were residents that were absolutely defiant about circumventing first odd/even rationing, then bans on anything but hand watering. There were about 20-30 users on the west side of town that were using so much water every month that the the city suspected they had leaks downstream from their meters.

Nope, refilling pools every 10-20 days because of the temps making their pool water uncomfortable and/or the high temps overwhelming the pool chemicals.

No one refills their pool every 10-20 days. Show some proof. smh

Besides, if such stupidity is going on, all it would take to stop is an excess usage charge on their bills.

[Bellaboo]

I have a 30,000 gallon pool/spa. It has a waterfall and I run the filtration for 6 hours a day, from 7:15 am until 1:15 pm. 7 days a week.

It depends on the temps, wind and humidity, but I put 1/4 inch of water in the pool daily on average. When we've had nice rains sometimes I don't put a drop in for a week or so.

So if I put water in each day for a week, I'm putting in less than 2 inches for the week. Facts.

[Midtowner]

The lakes constructed in OKlahoma during the WPA generation and subsequent federal acts were not just for reservoir drinking water storage, primarily, they were originally constructed for flood control during wet seasons, then additional lakes for potable water storage / recreation.

At some point, we're going to be forced to stop extending the urban service boundaries and mandate xeriscaping or construct additional reservoirs

Yes, when I worked for the the City of Norman 20ish years ago, during a previous drought and mandatory water rationing, there were residents that were absolutely defiant about circumventing first odd/even rationing, then bans on anything but hand watering. There were about 20-30 users on the west side of town that were using so much water every month that the the city suspected they had leaks downstream from their meters.

Nope, refilling pools every 10-20 days because of the temps making their pool water uncomfortable and/or the high temps overwhelming the pool chemicals.

At some point, cities like Edmond and Bethany and MWC, which all largely rely on mining the aquifer are going to have to make deals to buy OKC water. There is a reason I am very happy to own a home on the south side of the street (OKC) rather than the north side (Edmond).

I mean.. one of may reasons.. there's Edmond electric, trash, etc. as well.

[rtz]

Does Edmond not get their water from the treatment plant below the dam at Arcadia? And Midwest and Del City from the plant below the Dam at Draper? Surely Bethany much like the village uses OKC water?

[Jersey Boss]

MWC gets the majority of their water from Thunderbird with the balance from the Garber-Wellington aquifer.

[SEMIweather]

Pretty sure Bethany has their own water supply, I remember there was an issue with them having an extended boil water advisory several months back.

[clz46]

I have been by Lake Hefner several times as it is close to my house. Maybe it might be helpful to take a look at the lake currently.

[gjl]

Warr Acres uses OKC water but has it's own sewer and trash collection. We get a bill from OKC for water and a bill from Warr Acres for sewer and trash collection.

[Snowman]

At some point, cities like Edmond and Bethany and MWC, which all largely rely on mining the aquifer are going to have to make deals to buy OKC water. There is a reason I am very happy to own a home on the south side of the street (OKC) rather than the north side (Edmond).

I mean.. one of may reasons.. there's Edmond electric, trash, etc. as well.

Yukon started some sort of agreement like a decade or two ago, and went from previously having an independent system to blending in a percentage from OKC

[Bellaboo]

Yukon started some sort of agreement like a decade or two ago, and went from previously having an independent system to blending in a percentage from OKC

Yukon gets most of its water from wells underneath Will Rogers airport. I pay $20 a month to Yukon for OKC water mandate. So we get a mixture of both.

[Martin]

i was curious about bethany, so i looked it up... according to the report linked below, the city gets its water from a series of wells:

http://sdwis.deq.state.ok.us/DWW/CCR.../OK2005519.pdf

Your water comes from 23 Ground Water Well(s)

[Martin]

i was also curious about yukon. while the city operates its own wells, its output is blended with water sourced from okc in order to comply with arsenic content regulations. the amount varies, but generally 60% of the water is sourced from okc.

http://www.yukonok.gov/sites/yukon3/...n_2016_CCR.pdf (page 3)

The City of Yukon customers are fortunate because we enjoy an abundant water supply from two sources. Our water sources are groundwater from Garber Wellington Aquifer and purchased water provided by Oklahoma City. The aquifer supplies an average of approximately 2.6 million gallons of groundwater per day to our residents. In order to meet the new arsenic regulations, Yukon water is blended with OKC Water prior to the entry point of Yukon’s system. Depending on the month, 60 percent of the total water supply for Yukon is OKC Water. This process allows the City of Yukon to remain in compliance with the federal regulations.

[pw405]

Yes, pet lawns should and hopefully will continue to be a thing. I love my lawns and enjoy working on them.

You know... I grow cool season grass due to shade (Fescue & Kentucky Bluegrass) which requires a bit more water than a typical bermudagrass lawn. While I recognize the relatively low value/wastefulness that a nice lawn gives for the cost of water, I try to conserve: I use a "smart" sprinkler controller that will cancel if rain is in the forecast, or if it is too windy. I ensure sprinklers aren't broken, or spraying in the road, etc. Total grass area in my front & back yard combined is about 3,000 Sq ft. Could I use less water? Certainly possible.

I really think City of OKC should charge corporate buildings more if they have large swaths of irrigated grass. Or maybe an incentive to convert grass to something less thirsty (Las Vegas has been very good at this).

For example, take the IBC bank building on Portland & Expressway. They water in the hottest part of the day, which is both dumb & wasteful. Their sprinkler system is ALWAYS flooding out intersection of 63rd & Portland. Just absurd amounts of waste. The grass they are watering is just a thin strip between the giant parking lot & the road. Not really adding much value to the property or enjoyment for the occupants.

See figure 1. This was July 18th at 6:15 PM. The high was ~100° that day. IBC Bank has massive sprinkler system watering, so much of it missing the grass it is flooding down the parking lot all over 63rd & Portland. The LEAST they could do is make sure the water goes IN the grass. But no, 1,000's of gallons just washed down the drain. Even more lost to evaporation due to watering in direct July sun.


Figure 2: I count at least 44,000 Sq Ft of irrigated turfgrass - doing nothing but forming a border around the parking lot. If I was to water the same amount per unit of area as IBC Bank, it would take me 14.6 years to use as much water as they use in 1 year.


Now, should residential customers try to conserve water? Of course! We all should. But even if I cut my water use by 50%, we still have these giant corporate buildings doing dumb stuff like this.

IBC Bank isn't the only culprit in this area!

[pw405]

IBC Bank isn't the only culprit in this area!

While I don't see as much of the water from Love's Corporate building being pumped in to the street, they still seem to water during the hottest part of the day. Also growing Fescue just like IBC Bank's grass moat. But they have an even higher amount of area, coming in at 64,000 Sq ft! Compared to my relatively small lawn watered at the same rate, would take 21+ years to be equal:



Another big one is Lakepoint Towers, just around the corner at 63rd & Expressway. They irrigate at least 72,000 Sq ft of grass. All in the name of... having a green strip between NWXY and their parking lot? Excellent use of resources! About 24 years of use for a lawn my size:




While, sure, I realize that the argument could be viewed as "Well if they get to waste, I should get waste to!" But that's not necessarily the argument I'm trying to make. Rather - that if we want to conserve the "common good" of clean water availability for the central OK region, it seems like reducing water use cases such as these would be the easiest/low hanging fruit. City of Las Vegas has paid homes & businesses to remove grass & replace with low/no irrigation requirement species. They also have a team of dedicated water waste "officers" that will hunt for leaks & notify water customers they have a leaking sprinkler, or are wasting water by irrigating the road.

I don't think OKC needs to go quite that far - we live in a prairie vs. Las Vegas in a desert. But we could at the very least create SOME incentive/program for these giant corporate medians to plant native species of bushes/trees, plants that create shade so less water is evaporated, etc. etc. etc.

I still think we should actually ENFORCE the odd/even rationing, especially for non-residential customers. Businesses that flood the entire road like IBC bank should get 1 warning to fix the waste and then a penalty in the form of temporary higher cost for water, or a fine. There's no reason at all to be pumping that much water in to the street!!

[HOT ROD]

Its interesting we always talk on here about oKC being ugly due to the massive use of concrete and lack of landscaping, yet there also appears this thread with post like what little landscaping exists here in the natural grassland of america should not be watered/taken care of.

which is it guys? do we want a beautiful city full of trees and grass fit for the grassland/cross-timber region OKC is in OR do we want a Phoenix or ABQ-style landscaping that is foreign to this area just for the sake of not watering? I'm confused.