Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[jn1780]

I think I read somewhere that desalination is horrible on the environment ?

I'm sure its not great for the environment, but that bridge was already crossed when a long time ago when the first people moved out west. Now its doing what we need to do to keep the west going at the lowest environmental cost.

[mugofbeer]

Sry.duplicate

[mugofbeer]

So some of what i heard is being discussed is large scale desalinization and then piping it in to the lakes. We all know our food relies on this system working properly. This isn't just a regional issue, it's national for all of us. If this dries up, our food dries up. And we do not have good alternatives to move the agriculture. We will have to pay for it by means of price increases. The cost of growing the food goes up because the cost of the water for irrigation goes up, which went up because of the price of desalinization (which is expensive).

I know that some communities near the Pacific coast in CA are actually spinning up desalination plants but for a different reason. I heard a story on NPR the other day about a town that uses only partially desalinated water for the non-potable needs like toilets, fire hydrants, etc. If I remember, it was also used for sprinklers (for the places that used them....and dont ask me about how that worked with any sort of salt content in the water, i guess it is low enough to not kill plants, but not low enough for human consumption). So yes, the city and residents had to create an infrastructure to support it, but it was far less expensive to only partially desalinate than fully for drinking water. The residents in this town, i believe, only saw an increase of $40 annually for their water bill. But went from a water reserve that had gotten down to 23%, up to 63% in one year. I believe they expect to have a surplus next year. That also took commitments from residents to rip out water eating yards and replace with native elements. The people really were all doing their part because they all had a direct part in the process.

I also saw an article about CA installing solar panels over a huge irrigation channel to help stave off evaporation and also contribute to their solar generation goals. That seems like an awesome idea to me.

This is a process in use - already in ar-least India, maybe other places. They also make use of the land under other solar panel farms for crops.

[mugofbeer]

Some desal info

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-era-is-here/

Very interesting and promising. There is certainly no shortage of lava rock. In the west, it will still require the import of water from the east and the Pacific. Brine could go to the Great Salt Lake and other dry basins.

[bucktalk]

While our lawn sprinklers are running keeping our yards green, Lake Hefner water level is dropping rapidly. Ugh.

[Zorba]

How many actual gallons does a large farm use per day?

Is there not an easier and cheaper way to supply water just for irrigation?

A train with 100 tanker cars can transport 3 million gallons at a time…. Power plants and export facilities run trains daily in some areas from coal mines. Would 3 million gallons a day make a dent in areas with a lot farms?

It would be expensive day to day, but much cheaper than a transcontinental pipeline with pump stations to lift water over 5,000 feet?

With coal traffic declining over the next 10 years the railroads probably wouldn’t mind replacing those unit coal trains with unit water trains?

Just an idea. I have no idea how much water a farm uses per day.

There is 326K gallons in one acre-foot of water, I'm going to guess corn needs about 18 to 24 inches of water per harvest, or about 450-650K gallons per acre.

I think people have a hard time understanding the massive volumes of water creeks/rivers/farms deal with. How many gallons of gas do you buy a month? Maybe ~100 gal? How much water does the average house use? Somewhere about 8000+ gallons a month.

[rtz]

Looks like they are going to try for 2' of water again.

https://www.okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/4256/18

[rtz]

Interesting they don't say how much the water purchase costs; or what does Canton do with the money? Road construction?

[unfundedrick]

Interesting they don't say how much the water purchase costs; or what does Canton do with the money? Road construction?

That lake is not owned by the city of Canton. It is owned and operated by the Army Corp of Engineers. OKC has the storage rights and pays them to have it released.

[Bits_Of_Real_Panther]

That lake is not owned by the city of Canton. It is owned and operated by the Army Corp of Engineers. OKC has the storage rights and pays them to have it released.

Why isn't there a concrete corridor to ensure more of this flow makes the transfer, or a pipe?

Seems too low tech...

[BoulderSooner]

Why isn't there a concrete corridor to ensure more of this flow makes the transfer, or a pipe?

Seems too low tech...

cost

[rizzo]

cost

Okc pumps water from Atoka via pipeline its a 100 mile pipe. Also, further away is McGee Creek Reservoir on the same line. OKC could build a pipeline, but when there is the river (free) to get it here they'd just rather use it. A pipeline from Canton would be beneficial to both OKC and Canton. We would not need to pull as much water out as we do via the river.

[unfundedrick]

Okc pumps water from Atoka via pipeline its a 100 mile pipe. Also, further away is McGee Creek Reservoir on the same line. OKC could build a pipeline, but when there is the river (free) to get it here they'd just rather use it. A pipeline from Canton would be beneficial to both OKC and Canton. We would not need to pull as much water out as we do via the river.

That would be true is OKC was getting water from Canton on a regular basis but once every 10 years or so makes it a no go.

[catch22]

Perhaps as long as Lake Hefner isn’t critically low it may be worth it to wait a little longer for a widespread rain event along the river basin, and release a larger amount then. I wonder if water loss would be significantly less?

[Snowman]

Okc pumps water from Atoka via pipeline its a 100 mile pipe. Also, further away is McGee Creek Reservoir on the same line. OKC could build a pipeline, but when there is the river (free) to get it here they'd just rather use it. A pipeline from Canton would be beneficial to both OKC and Canton. We would not need to pull as much water out as we do via the river.

The second pipeline to south east Oklahoma has started being built, but it will take years to complete.

[The Devils Architect]

Perhaps it's time to no longer issue pool permits and start permanent water rationing

[BoulderSooner]

start permanent water rationing

okc has had that for years now

[Midtowner]

Perhaps it's time to no longer issue pool permits and start permanent water rationing

Why? The water in Canton is available. It should be used before any kind of rationing. OKC planned ahead so OKC residents can have lush yards and gardens not otherwise sustainable in this climate. Canton gets a recreational lake for free which is usable most months out of the year. If we're taking water at this time, the fishing in October is going to be pretty terrible as fish are cold-blooded critters and in cold months they don't eat much, so consequently, the fishing isn't good. There's not much waterskiing or other recreation because it's too darn cold.

It's not as if water is a non-renewable resource and even when there is a pipeline, you take the water which gets to you because gravity over the water you have to pay for energy to pump to you up hill.

This thread is basically ridiculous. All this whining and gnashing of teeth every time there's water taken, which is only once every several years. This is especially dumb if you consider the alternative, i.e., there was never a lake in Canton. It's a man-made lake built to serve the needs of OKC--and when it's used as such, why is anyone surprised or even annoyed?

[josefromtulsa]

Why? The water in Canton is available. It should be used before any kind of rationing. OKC planned ahead so OKC residents can have lush yards and gardens not otherwise sustainable in this climate...

Your reasoning is that since there is water that can be used we should go ahead and use it on wasteful lawns and gardens? OKC will need to get used to less and less water being available to them and that includes using less water overall on vanity.

But I do agree that water should be drawn regardless if Canton wants a full lake. Canton only has like 500 residents which is basically a large apartment complex.

[The Devils Architect]

Posts like this are the reason that every aquifer in the mid-west is drying up

[The Devils Architect]

And certain moneyed powerbrokers can't afford to buy out the land from the farming interests that it would take to get the r-o-w to build such a pipeline or aqueduct

[BoulderSooner]

OKC will need to get used to less and less water being available to them and that includes using less water overall on vanity.

.

based on what??

[Bill Robertson]

Perhaps as long as Lake Hefner isn’t critically low it may be worth it to wait a little longer for a widespread rain event along the river basin, and release a larger amount then. I wonder if water loss would be significantly less?

That would be a good idea. At no time this year has Hefner been low enough to be anywhere near worried about supply. In somewhere between '13 and '16 we pulled our last sailboat out just before there wasn't enough water to get her out and she sat on the trailer until she sold. That year you could walk from one shore almost at the east end of the main rows of slips all the way to the other shore on dry land. It hasn't been low enough this year for any of the slips to be completely unusable. Unless you have a fairly deep draft keel. The bottom of the older ramp was at least 50 feet from water.

[Midtowner]

Posts like this are the reason that every aquifer in the mid-west is drying up

Cool, but this is surface water, not ground water. Unless there's some kind of comprehensive water use plan in the works which actually considers aquifer depletion rates, I'd say you have a point. But you don't have a point.

[Midtowner]

Your reasoning is that since there is water that can be used we should go ahead and use it on wasteful lawns and gardens? OKC will need to get used to less and less water being available to them and that includes using less water overall on vanity.

On the contrary, OKC is about the gain access to a huge amount of water in SE Oklahoma and has its needs met for at least the next 50-100 years. There are, of course, always a bunch of chicken littles who have been consuming media about the Colorado River or other parts of the country which are really going through major changes because of lack of water supply. We, however, are not one of those areas.

I do have concerns for communities which are relying on an endless supply of aquifer water, but there's so much water available to OKC that I imagine selling water to those communities won't be a huge stretch, but man am I glad I live in OKC proper and not Edmond proper with that issue on the not so far horizon.