REHCO / Former Downtown Ford site

[krisb]

For the time being, a portion of the Bob Howard site will be a staging area for the arena renovations and boulevard construction. They are tearing down the main showroom building right now.

[Rover]

Other than that it is a blight on the city's most important urban district, and will get a lot worse in the years to come. Maybe we'll be able to write a comic book about it in a few decades.

This may be a little dramatic. The Sterwart Steel buildings are a blight. The dilapidated buildings in the area are a blight. The trash that people scatter around is blight. Most of I-40 south of downtown to the river is blight. Bass Pro is inappropriate architecture for the area. So let's get rid of the real blight, fill in all the spaces around it and make the land too valuable to keep the building on. Then we can get that perfect project there.

[Kerry]

Rover - that sounds like a plan to me. I think the Stewart Steel site would make a good location, expecially if it was to span over Lincoln. It could open up a whole new hotel district and anchor the east side of Bricktown.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

It isn't going to be. I suspect we will see development plans pretty soon. Hall and Co. wouldn't go through the expense of clearing the land unless they were planning to build something on it.

Kerry,
With all due respect, you are wrong. There are no definitive plans yet and this site is certainly available for a convention center location.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

Please don't let this be site of new convention center...

GW,
Why are you opposed to this site for the convention center?

[betts]

I'll give you my reasons: Convention Centers are virtually never attractive. They are blocky, windowless and generally not inviting to walk through. Imeediately south of the dowtown Ford site is the new boulevard and the new Central Park. Immediately north is the Myriad Gardens. Putting the convention center there would effectively block the park off from the CBD. It would be invisible and there would be no impetus for people to walk through the building to get to the park. We need something open, with windows....something that invites people in and invites them to walk through. I think anything put in that site should have restaurants or retail, and a simple means to pass through to the park. Convention centers are dead at night and this is an area we want to be filled with life and activity. A convention center can be tucked away where it is close to invisible, ideally. Close enough to be convenient, but not in the center of things.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

I'll give you my reasons: Convention Centers are virtually never attractive. They are blocky, windowless and generally not inviting to walk through. Imeediately south of the dowtown Ford site is the new boulevard and the new Central Park. Immediately north is the Myriad Gardens. Putting the convention center there would effectively block the park off from the CBD. It would be invisible and there would be no impetus for people to walk through the building to get to the park. We need something open, with windows....something that invites people in and invites them to walk through. I think anything put in that site should have restaurants or retail, and a simple means to pass through to the park. Convention centers are dead at night and this is an area we want to be filled with life and activity. A convention center can be tucked away where it is close to invisible, ideally. Close enough to be convenient, but not in the center of things.

I don't completely disagree with you.

However, what if the hotel was placed on the east side of the dealership site? That would put the convention center tucked behind the hotel on the west end of the site. Also that would put the hotel as the direct link between the Myriad Gardens and Central Park.

The hotel would overlook the Ford Center, Myriad Gardens and Central Park. You think visitors staying in the hotel would think that's cool? I bet they would. They could still access Bricktown via the streetcar (thus boosting the streetcar ridership).

[Reno and Walker]

You tell Real Estate Guy.

[ZYX2]

GW,
Why are you opposed to this site for the convention center?

My top reason is that this has the potential to be turned into a wonderful mixed use site. Why on earth would you want to ruin that possibility...?

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

My top reason is that this has the potential to be turned into a wonderful mixed use site. Why on earth would you want to ruin that possibility...?

I could say the same thing about the current Cox site. I think the current Cox site would be an incredible mixed use development site. Currently, that site is a major physical barrier...it creates a barrier between CBD and the Ford Center/Bricktown.

If you redeveloped the current Cox Center site into mixed-use...that area would have CBD, Myriad Gardens, Ford Center and Bricktown on all four sides of the site. Talk about an attractive development site...

I'm not arguing for either location for the convention center. I just don't think some people are being completely open to all of the different possibilities.

[betts]

If there were a hotel with an essentially glass first floor, doors opening both on Reno and the boulevard it would be OK. But, you still have the convention center at the north side of our new Central Park. The park is for the citizens and we've uglied it up with a convention center. I just think there are better choices for the convention center location. If you used the east side of the park, you could at least put the hotel in a position to face the park and the convention center could face east, where at least presently there's no development. But, if you put it south of the boulevard, in the cotton gin or lumber yard sites, you could put the hotel facing the boulevard, with the convention center basically invisible. It's not as close to existing hotels, but it certainly easier to disguise. I like either of those two options better than the Ford dealership site.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

I think putting the CC east of the park is the worst location possible for development purposes. It essentially kills any potential development sites to the south and east of the convention center.

Have you ever seen Houston's convention center and their park, Discovery Green? Discovery Green park is an amazing park, but one side of the park is bordered by their new convention center. The other three sides of Discovery Green have awesome development & infill, but very, very development has occurred on the other side of the convention center.


As for the Ford Site, I would put small retail spaces on the south side of the site...those would face the new Boulevard and Central Park.

As for the lumber yard site, I think that is also a good site.

Just my two cents...

[G.Walker]

GW,
Why are you opposed to this site for the convention center?

The convention center would not be a good fit in this area, it would be a barrier for pedestrians wanting to enjoy the park, and access downtown, a mix of housing and retail would make more economic sense. I say they narrow it down to two sites , then let the people vote, we are paying for it anyways, and we made this project come alive, we should have say so on where we want it located.

[Snowman]

However, what if the hotel was placed on the east side of the dealership site? That would put the convention center tucked behind the hotel on the west end of the site. Also that would put the hotel as the direct link between the Myriad Gardens and Central Park.

The hotel would overlook the Ford Center, Myriad Gardens and Central Park. You think visitors staying in the hotel would think that's cool? I bet they would. They could still access Bricktown via the streetcar (thus boosting the streetcar ridership).

A convention center with more exhibition space than the Cox center (one of the city's core reason for building a new one) will not fit on that site even without a hotel unless you are making exhibition halls on multiple floors which seems unlikely due to building costs, complications to operations and guest flow throughout the building.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

...unless you are making exhibition halls on multiple floors which seems unlikely due to building costs, complications to operations and guest flow throughout the building.

I agree, unless it's multiple stories, it wouldn't work.

The reality is, this site will be a great site regardless of where the convention center goes...

[Reno and Walker]

maybe they will connect it with the existing cox and that ugly waste of space Century Plaza

[Dar405301]

i think that not only should the streetcar directly serve the convention center, but it should go through the convention center like the lightrail in denver going through and stopping in the colorado convention center.

[Spartan]

As for the Ford Site, I would put small retail spaces on the south side of the site...those would face the new Boulevard and Central Park.

As for the lumber yard site, I think that is also a good site.

Just my two cents...

I think when we were sold Core2Shore and MAPS 3, which voters supported, we were expecting a little more than a convention center with little retail spaces on the boulevard. If a big mixed-use development could just as well go somewhere, the convention center should not go there, I think. I don't think the lumberyard site is going to attract big mixed-use anytime, yet it is an otherwise very good site. I think that makes it ideal in that aspect.

Of course the lumberyard is ideal for a lot of other reasons...proximity to Bricktown, Central Park, and existing hotels in the CBD. Another good site would be the east end of Bricktown, but that is really far from the new park and existing downtown hotels. So I think that's why the lumberyard is the best fit.

The problem with the Downtown Ford site is that it is essentially SMACK in the middle of downtown. This is going to be THE centerpiece of future downtown development. I don't want THE centerpiece of future downtown development to be a convention center for crying out loud.

[Kerry]

Kerry,
With all due respect, you are wrong. There are no definitive plans yet and this site is certainly available for a convention center location.

Is the lot for sale, or is it available in the sense that any lot is available if someone offers enough money?

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

Is the lot for sale, or is it available in the sense that any lot is available if someone offers enough money?

Neither. Howard and the Halls are definitely open to putting the convention center on that site (if that site is chosen).

[Kerry]

Neither. Howard and the Halls are definitely open to putting the convention center on that site (if that site is chosen).

Well, that is disappointing then. If they are keeping the lot available until a decision is made on the Convention Center location we won't see any plans for 2 years.

[Steve]

Is the lot for sale, or is it available in the sense that any lot is available if someone offers enough money?

Kerry, I can verify what Comm'l Real Estate Guy is saying. Despite the ideas expressed by Fred Hall, there are other partners in that ownership group. The property's future is very much up in the air.

[Steve]

Well, that is disappointing then. If they are keep the lot available until a decision is made on the Convention Center location we won't see any plans for 2 years.

How so? Site will be chosen in May.

[Kerry]

How so? Site will be chosen in May.

Is the Hall group continuing with their plans regardless of the Convention Center decision or are they in a wait and see mode? If they are in a wait and see mode, how long have they already been waiting?

[rfjeep12]

Rover - that sounds like a plan to me. I think the Stewart Steel site would make a good location, expecially if it was to span over Lincoln. It could open up a whole new hotel district and anchor the east side of Bricktown.

yes please!