Big retailer is eyeing OKC & Tulsa

[Video Expert]

What OKC needs is a grocer like Publix. H-E-B, Kroger, Harris Teeter, etc are very similar. It's mindnumbing that in a metro of 1.3 million you can count the number of that type of grocery store in the entire metro area on one hand. In other cities, even half the size of OKC, they are too numerous to count. WinCo appears to be another no frills type store similar to the stores already in the market, not the notch up that is lacking in OKC. Now its definitely a step forward because it will compete well with Wal-Mart and likely take some marketshare, possibly paving the way for a better grocer to enter the market in the future, but Winco isn't going to solve OKC's grocery woes.

I've shopped at many HEB's and Kroger and think they are decent grocery stores. I think OKC could also be well served with stores like HyVee and Publix. My main point is that some posters seem to think that having WinCo possibly come into the market is just horrible, when it isn't for exactly the reason you cited at the end of your post.

I can tell you right now that as long as the current liquor laws in this state remain unchanged, don't expect an onslaught of grocers like the one's you mentioned to take the Oklahoma market very serious when it comes to expansion.

[bchris02]

I can tell you right now that as long as the current liquor laws in this state remain unchanged, don't expect an onslaught of grocers like the one's you mentioned to take the Oklahoma market very serious when it comes to expansion.

It's easy to blame the liquor laws, but the truth is cities like Tulsa, Wichita, Kansas City (KS), as well as any city in Colorado, Utah, or Minnesota all have or have once had laws similar to Oklahoma's and they didn't keep the quality grocers out of those markets. I can almost guarantee that its the Wal-Mart marketshare keeping those other grocers out, not the liquor laws.

[adaniel]

Bchris02, I know you love to rip Wal Mart, and I am frankly not a fan myself. But to just assume its all Wal Mart's fault is incorrect.

The states you rattled off in general have better demographics, as in higher incomes, than OK. Because of that, those states can get away with having draconian liquor laws because they will make it up in higher sales, thanks to more disposable income (although one could argue its a shallow observation since those states have much high COL's, but I digress).

We need something else to sweeten the pot, per say. Better liquor sales would likely make up for any perceived weakness in comp food sales. Even on the upscale side, the grocery business is a very low profit enterprise, and in the future there will be less, not more stores. So they must count every penny that comes in to survive.

In the mean time, vote with your feet and pocketbook and shop at the stores you perceive to be of high quality. These chains look at sales in comparative stores, and if they are lacking, then they won't bother coming in.

[Just the facts]

Thanks for the response, but I must confess I still don't get the "racing to the bottom" comment. Have you ever stepped foot in a WinCo before? How do you know you are not getting good service (and style) with them if you've never shopped them before? By simply watching a three minute Youtube video?? I'm not saying WinCo is the greatest supermarket ever, but I've actually shopped the store and find it rather silly for anyone to judge the merits of any store without ever shopping or stepping foot in one.

I do agree with you about Publix. I'm VERY familiar with them and have shopped several of their locations in Florida.

I'll confess, I have never shopped in one but my understanding is they are bulk food store along the lines of Costco and Sams.

[Video Expert]

I'll confess, I have never shopped in one but my understanding is they are bulk food store along the lines of Costco and Sams.

While they do have a relatively small section of the typical 90,000 sq ft store devoted to "bulk items", WinCo is NOT a bulk food store. In addition, it has a full service deli, bakery, produce, and butcher section. It also does not require a membership to shop.

[zookeeper]

This whole grocery store thing is getting ridiculous. It's a classic example of the Grass Is Always Greener syndrome. These other stores are made to sound like something really different and I've been in enough Kroger's and the like to know they are simple grocery stores. We have perfectly fine grocery stores in this city and to say we don't is just to confuse the facts with wishes for things we don't have.

[Buffalo Bill]

This whole grocery store thing is getting ridiculous. It's a classic example of the Grass Is Always Greener syndrome. These other stores are made to sound like something really different and I've been in enough Kroger's and the like to know they are simple grocery stores. We have perfectly fine grocery stores in this city and to say we don't is just to confuse the facts with wishes for things we don't have.

By and large you either:

A. Live adjacent to the May and Britton Homeland

B. Smoke too much crack

Or

C. Have never been to a common grocery store in any other metropolitan area.

The state of the vast majority of Grocery stores here is pathetic, unless you want meats that are injected with up to a xx% of a patented solution, flaccid produce, and no specialty products at all. If you eat Oreos and Doritos, sure they're fine, but for real food, it sucks.

[zookeeper]

By and large you either:

A. Live adjacent to the May and Britton Homeland

B. Smoke too much crack

Or

C. Have never been to a common grocery store in any other metropolitan area.

The state of the vast majority of Grocery stores here is pathetic, unless you want meats that are injected with up to a xx% of a patented solution, flaccid produce, and no specialty products at all. If you eat Oreos and Doritos, sure they're fine, but for real food, it sucks.

I will agree that Homeland is by far the best of the lot, but really the only option?

- Whole Foods
- Sprouts
- Buy 4 Less
- Crest
- Uptown Market
- Homeland May and Britton and the one South was nice last I was in

I know I'm missing others. My point is that the clamoring for a different chain to come here is just like the clamoring for Bass Pro or Whole Foods or everything thing else that's not here. Now that WF and BP are here, they don't seem so "special" anymore. I really do think it's mostly the GIAG syndrome.

[Buffalo Bill]

I will agree that Homeland is by far the best of the lot, but really the only option?

- Whole Foods
- Sprouts
- Buy 4 Less
- Crest
- Uptown Market
- Homeland May and Britton and the one South was nice last I was in

I know I'm missing others. My point is that the clamoring for a different chain to come here is just like the clamoring for Bass Pro or Whole Foods or everything thing else that's not here. Now that WF and BP are here, they don't seem so "special" anymore. I really do think it's mostly the GIAG syndrome.

Rest assured, you're not missing others. The point is, stores like the May and Britton Homeland are the norm just about everywhere I've been. Hell, Boulder Colorado with its 100,000 people supports 3 Whole Foods; our 1.75 M supports 1.

It is a big deal.

[catch22]

Rest assured, you're not missing others. The point is, stores like the May and Britton Homeland are the norm just about everywhere I've been. Hell, Boulder Colorado with its 100,000 people supports 3 Whole Foods; our 1.75 M supports 1.

It is a big deal.

Barely 1.3M

[bchris02]

Rest assured, you're not missing others. The point is, stores like the May and Britton Homeland are the norm just about everywhere I've been. Hell, Boulder Colorado with its 100,000 people supports 3 Whole Foods; our 1.75 M supports 1.

It is a big deal.

Agreed. The OKC metro only has 1.3 million people, but be that as it may, Little Rock, a metro less than half the size of OKC, has 21 stores that are at least on the level of the May/Britton Homeland. This is a big issue for people who move to OKC from elsewhere and are used to a higher standard. Stores like people in this thread are wishing for are things people take for granted in any other metropolitan area. Zookeeper is right when he says after we get them they will be nothing special - because they aren't anything special outside of OKC. They are an amenity that any metropolitan area should have. I doubt anybody here thinks there should be an H-E-B Central Market or Flagship Randall's on every corner, but OKC deserves better than the stores it has, with the exception of the six listed above by zookeeper which actually are decent. Six stores for a metro of 1.3 million people especially one this sprawled out is ridiculous.

[bluedogok]

There are only six Central Markets total, all in Texas, so that is a very limited concept but there are HEB's of all sizes all over Texas which I think is more fair comparison to what should be in OKC. I am also talking about the newer style HEB stores, not the older smaller ones or the Walmart Supercenter competitor HEB Plus.

[Celebrator]

This whole grocery store thing is getting ridiculous. It's a classic example of the Grass Is Always Greener syndrome. These other stores are made to sound like something really different and I've been in enough Kroger's and the like to know they are simple grocery stores. We have perfectly fine grocery stores in this city and to say we don't is just to confuse the facts with wishes for things we don't have.

I tend to mostly agree with this. Sure...we could have better, but it's not that bad. My wife and I actually laughed at ourselves this summer when we walked into a terribly shabby, dark, poorly stocked Market Basket grocery store in quaint downtown Concord, NH. We looked at each other and said...Homeland doesn't look so bad now. So, it could always be worse.

[Buffalo Bill]

Barely 1.3M

My bad. I pulled the number from this article:

Doing OK | Whole Foods' pending arrival signals change in Oklahoma City's discount-heavy grocery market | Retail & Financial content from Supermarket News

Looks like a typo; 1.75 vs 1.25. Still, the point remains the same.

[bchris02]

I tend to mostly agree with this. Sure...we could have better, but it's not that bad. My wife and I actually laughed at ourselves this summer when we walked into a terribly shabby, dark, poorly stocked Market Basket grocery store in quaint downtown Concord, NH. We looked at each other and said...Homeland doesn't look so bad now. So, it could always be worse.

Yeah it could be Wild Woody's Happy Foods in Kansas City. Now that's a bad grocery store. However, I would be willing to bet Concord has better options than the Market Basket you visited.

[SoonerDave]

Bchris02, I know you love to rip Wal Mart, and I am frankly not a fan myself. But to just assume its all Wal Mart's fault is incorrect.

I all-but gave up on this thread because there's no new discussion, just constant blaming of the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart, and despite plenty of evidence to the contrary about competitors, its simply ignored, because of the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart, which is the absolute end of the discussions, so when it comes to groceries, we just need to "Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter Here," because of the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart.

I'd say more, but I've got to go pick up a few things at Crest, which obviously can't really exist due to the impenetrable, insurmountable, hopeless market share of WalMart.

[RadicalModerate]

I will agree that Homeland is by far the best of the lot, but really the only option?

- Whole Foods
- Sprouts
- Buy 4 Less
- Crest
- Uptown Market
- Homeland May and Britton and the one South was nice last I was in

I know I'm missing others. My point is that the clamoring for a different chain to come here is just like the clamoring for Bass Pro or Whole Foods or everything thing else that's not here. Now that WF and BP are here, they don't seem so "special" anymore. I really do think it's mostly the GIAG syndrome.

I think you nailed it. The Next Big Thing of Yesterday is the Yawn of Tomorrow . . .
In the Twin Cities area I get the impression that "THE" grocery store to go to is Lunds.
I've been to Lunds. It's okay. There's one serving the culinary needs of the inhabitants of the hoity-toity lakeside residences on Lake Minnetonka. I think they may even have packaged lutefisk in the aisles.

Yet I have to say that although Whole Foods and Sprouts (and Lunds) are fine, in my opinion there is nothing that makes them Ultimately Superior to say . . . the Homeland at Britton and May or even what Snyder's at Hefner and May used to be.
Frankly, I'm curious just how much serious cooking a lot of the grocery store critics in here actually do.

P.S.: I bought some "fresh" salmon at Gulfport the other day that was close to the best salmon I ever helped to approach perfection on the plate. I didn't go looking for it at any "Grocery Store".

[Just the facts]

While they do have a relatively small section of the typical 90,000 sq ft store devoted to "bulk items", WinCo is NOT a bulk food store. In addition, it has a full service deli, bakery, produce, and butcher section. It also does not require a membership to shop.

In that case, I stand corrected.

[bluedogok]

Just from the pictures WinCo kind of reminds me more of the Food 4 Less that used to be at 122nd & Penn with the open racks and cut boxes, although with much better lighting.

[RadicalModerate]

Did the crime-ridden apartments take the place of the Food 4 Less at that location?
Or did the Buy 4 Less (actually a mile south of that location) simply raise their bar a little?

[bluedogok]

Nope, the store closed and a call center went into that space, the SW corner. I lived across the street (Northgreen) when I moved back from Dallas and before it was a crime ridden area, so it was convenient.

[Video Expert]

Yeah it could be Wild Woody's Happy Foods in Kansas City. Now that's a bad grocery store. However, I would be willing to bet Concord has better options than the Market Basket you visited.

Don't ask how, but I once ended up at a Chas Ball Supermarket on Parallel Parkway in KC. That particular store just might make that Happy Foods look like Harris Teeter or HEB in comparison.

[RadicalModerate]

Don't ask how, but I once ended up at a Chas Ball Supermarket on Parallel Parkway in KC. That particular store just might make that Happy Foods look like Harris Teeter or HEB in comparison.

Why do I have a feeling that "Parallel Parkway" isn't too far from Prospect Ave? =)

[MWCGuy]

Nope, the store closed and a call center went into that space, the SW corner. I lived across the street (Northgreen) when I moved back from Dallas and before it was a crime ridden area, so it was convenient.

Did the crime-ridden apartments take the place of the Food 4 Less at that location?
Or did the Buy 4 Less (actually a mile south of that location) simply raise their bar a little?

Most of the shopping center has become an office for Cox Communications.

I am wondering where Winco will build. Will it be already served areas such as Edmond, NW OKC, Midwest City, Norman or Moore? or Will they try to go for the areas that are lacking a full service grocery store. (240 and Sooner, Mustang, Tri City, Yukon, Downtown or Midtown)

Will they take over an existing big box/shopping center or will they build their own big box that could close and sit empty if the chain does not do well here or goes under all together. (Let's face it the grocery business is no longer a huge money making industry any more especially when large percentage of the population is on Food Stamps in this country and only a small percentage of people still buy groceries by the basket load.)

[RadicalModerate]

Interesting . . . Apparently "Food 4 Less" moved the other direction and became "Aldi" . .