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Thread: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

  1. #201

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tier2City View Post
    The concern I'm hearing is should what people have already voted on be changed?

    Many things are needed to improve public transit overall and no one improvement will do it all. The streetcar is but one, albeit important, step in that direction that had and continues to have strong public support. What other steps can be taken in addition? These might include:

    • improved transit funding (Sunday bus service, extended bus service hours?) in the FY2014 budget;
    • allocation of MAPS 3 contingency funds;
    • Next GO Bond vote;
    • MAPS IV
    • Regional Transit District tax; amongst others.

    There are many other additional sources of funding and additional approaches to consider to improve public transit in the near, medium and long term. Clearly, public awareness and support of public transit is the greatest it's ever been in this city and region for a long time. That's not going away and this shouldn't be a zero-sum game.
    To answer your intital question - No. I think there would be overwhelming agreement with that.

    The rest of your post is exactly why this is so frustrating. Streetcar advocates (like me) regard the streetcar as the first of hopefully many improvements in OKC's transit system. A vote of OKC citizens chose the streetcar project (along with 8 other projects of varying popularity) as our first step toward the goal of providing multiple moderns modes of transportation. To attempt to redirect the funds that are designated (despite any semantic games one might play with the language of the resolution and/or ballot) for that project would probably derail any future prospects for additional investments in OKC transit via the MAPS mechanism. Despite its flaws, MAPS is a proven method for funding large scale civic projects as long as the voters will and intent is not subrogated. Adherence to the unwritten "contract" between the voters and our elected officials has enabled a potentially flawed process to work quite well for the greater good. To disregard this would negatively impact the momentum OKC has generated over the last several years and that would be very disappointing to see.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    I wish the 'Like' function was working - I would 'Like' Hutch's post x1000.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Back to the topic of Mr. Shadid for Mayor. It has been pretty clear the Shadid has set out to be the "contrarian" of the council. I don't always agree with him but I don't think it ever hurts to have someone like that on the council. However, do you want someone like that as your Mayor? I'm sure some people do but to me a lot of the Mayor's job is PR work on behalf of the city. Maybe that is a dumb way for me to look at it but I can't see Mr. Shadid in that role.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by OSUFan View Post
    Back to the topic of Mr. Shadid for Mayor. It has been pretty clear the Shadid has set out to be the "contrarian" of the council. I don't always agree with him but I don't think it ever hurts to have someone like that on the council. However, do you want someone like that as your Mayor? I'm sure some people do but to me a lot of the Mayor's job is PR work on behalf of the city. Maybe that is a dumb way for me to look at it but I can't see Mr. Shadid in that role.
    I think that is a common question for many people that have been posting in this thread OSUFan. Dr Shadid is directly responsible for some of the most valuable debates within the City Council since his election and for that I think OKC is better off. But I think it would require a significant shift in his methods to be effective as Mayor and the question for me is he prepared to do so?

  5. #205

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    I'm conflicted. I think Shadid is a great council member, but the way I see the mayor role, or at least the way Cornett has played it has been very effective. The mayor-as-cheerleader approach seems to be the best. The mayor at war with the Council might make our city government appear unstable and more like Tulsa.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Ed asked me to the post the following on his behalf:



    Without exception, the actual outcome in life is always turns out different than the various scenarios that I fear or hope for.

    Without exception, anger is a secondary emotion and when I experience it there are three primary sources: fear, hurt and/or loss of control. If I am angry and I ask myself what primary source(s) is/are at play it tends to have a calming effect especially if I can speak about such things with whomever I am angry. I have no doubt that some of my actions have scared some, have hurt some, and/or have led some to believe they are losing control. In addition, projection is a strong defense mechanism and sometimes I get upset when I recognize, perhaps subconsciously, my own behavior in others.

    Without exception, everyone on this thread is passionate about OKC (or they probably wouldn't be interfacing on such a blog) and I believe, would like to see the transit system improved.

    In terms of transit goals, my paramount one is to maximize dialogue and induce the interchange of a flurry of diverse thoughts and experiences so that we can arrive at better outcomes; possibly and probably ones that currently none of us see. Time is at a premium; we must act thoroughly but quickly.

    The utility of OKC Talk, which was realized to such powerful effect in the Boulevard discussion, was that it served as a vehicle for diverse thoughts and solutions to rapidly be run up the flagpole and critiqued and improved by the suggestions of others. The larger the scale of participation the better will be the outcome and massive scale of such deliberations is my goal.

    There are two significant transit studies in the works; one on the bus system which will be released in two weeks and one on the streetcar system in a couple of months. Hopefully they emphasize how multiple modes could work together as simply the transit system. Let's devour every word.

    I think the process does break down though when we fail to treat each other with the utmost respect and I fear that if people see unhealthy expressions of anger it will suppress participation.

    I think meeting in groups is advantageous as it is more efficient time wise and again, the exchange of multiple perspectives has a higher likelihood of achieving breakthroughs. I will be in the basement at the Belle Isle Library Sunday at 4pm whether anyone shows up or not. If anyone can't make it, we will do many more. If anyone still wants to meet privately I will certainly do that as well; call Boyd Fulton at 297-2402 to schedule

  7. #207

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Ed asked me to the post the following on his behalf:

    Without exception, the actual outcome in life is always turns out different than the various scenarios that I fear or hope for.

    Without exception, anger is a secondary emotion and when I experience it there are three primary sources: fear, hurt and/or loss of control. If I am angry and I ask myself what primary source(s) is/are at play it tends to have a calming effect especially if I can speak about such things with whomever I am angry. I have no doubt that some of my actions have scared some, have hurt some, and/or have led some to believe they are losing control. In addition, projection is a strong defense mechanism and sometimes I get upset when I recognize, perhaps subconsciously, my own behavior in others.

    Without exception, everyone on this thread is passionate about OKC (or they probably wouldn't be interfacing on such a blog) and I believe, would like to see the transit system improved.

    In terms of transit goals, my paramount one is to maximize dialogue and induce the interchange of a flurry of diverse thoughts and experiences so that we can arrive at better outcomes; possibly and probably ones that currently none of us see. Time is at a premium; we must act thoroughly but quickly.

    The utility of OKC Talk, which was realized to such powerful effect in the Boulevard discussion, was that it served as a vehicle for diverse thoughts and solutions to rapidly be run up the flagpole and critiqued and improved by the suggestions of others. The larger the scale of participation the better will be the outcome and massive scale of such deliberations is my goal.

    There are two significant transit studies in the works; one on the bus system which will be released in two weeks and one on the streetcar system in a couple of months. Hopefully they emphasize how multiple modes could work together as simply the transit system. Let's devour every word.

    I think the process does break down though when we fail to treat each other with the utmost respect and I fear that if people see unhealthy expressions of anger it will suppress participation.

    I think meeting in groups is advantageous as it is more efficient time wise and again, the exchange of multiple perspectives has a higher likelihood of achieving breakthroughs. I will be in the basement at the Belle Isle Library Sunday at 4pm whether anyone shows up or not. If anyone can't make it, we will do many more. If anyone still wants to meet privately I will certainly do that as well; call Boyd Fulton at 297-2402 to schedule
    Pete:

    Tell Ed thanks for the psychology and brain trust lessons. But what most of us really need to know at this point is the answer to a very simple question. Does Ed support taking any of the $120 million committed by City Council for the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar project and spending it on the bus system instead? We'll be waiting to hear his answer.

  8. Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    As an aside, not meaning to sidetrack this thread, and Pete, feel free to move this if you need to ...
    OKC Talk, chaotic, enlightening, encouraging, maddening, confusing, amusing and all together crazy, does make a difference in our community. Ed is right - this site played a major role in the boulevard discussion. I've seen this site influence development, spur owners of dormant, blighted buildings to clean up their act, and most recently, directly influenced the design of the Staybridge Suites in Bricktown.
    So there, you have my big sloppy wet kiss.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Ed asked me to the post the following on his behalf:



    Without exception, the actual outcome in life is always turns out different than the various scenarios that I fear or hope for.

    Without exception, anger is a secondary emotion and when I experience it there are three primary sources: fear, hurt and/or loss of control. If I am angry and I ask myself what primary source(s) is/are at play it tends to have a calming effect especially if I can speak about such things with whomever I am angry. I have no doubt that some of my actions have scared some, have hurt some, and/or have led some to believe they are losing control. In addition, projection is a strong defense mechanism and sometimes I get upset when I recognize, perhaps subconsciously, my own behavior in others.

    Without exception, everyone on this thread is passionate about OKC (or they probably wouldn't be interfacing on such a blog) and I believe, would like to see the transit system improved.

    In terms of transit goals, my paramount one is to maximize dialogue and induce the interchange of a flurry of diverse thoughts and experiences so that we can arrive at better outcomes; possibly and probably ones that currently none of us see. Time is at a premium; we must act thoroughly but quickly.

    The utility of OKC Talk, which was realized to such powerful effect in the Boulevard discussion, was that it served as a vehicle for diverse thoughts and solutions to rapidly be run up the flagpole and critiqued and improved by the suggestions of others. The larger the scale of participation the better will be the outcome and massive scale of such deliberations is my goal.

    There are two significant transit studies in the works; one on the bus system which will be released in two weeks and one on the streetcar system in a couple of months. Hopefully they emphasize how multiple modes could work together as simply the transit system. Let's devour every word.

    I think the process does break down though when we fail to treat each other with the utmost respect and I fear that if people see unhealthy expressions of anger it will suppress participation.

    I think meeting in groups is advantageous as it is more efficient time wise and again, the exchange of multiple perspectives has a higher likelihood of achieving breakthroughs. I will be in the basement at the Belle Isle Library Sunday at 4pm whether anyone shows up or not. If anyone can't make it, we will do many more. If anyone still wants to meet privately I will certainly do that as well; call Boyd Fulton at 297-2402 to schedule
    This is a nice way to say very little. As for myself, I'm not typically an angry person. If I'm angry, it's about an incident and the anger usually does not persist.

    However, I think Ed may be confusing passion for anger.

    He's known for some time that the streetcar is a passionately supported MAPS initiative. It should come with little surprise to him that people will respond passionately to his confusing, shifting positions on it.

    Similarly, many of the streetcar supporters worked passionately for Ed to help get him elected -- and to support him when he faced criticism. People tend to get a little hacked off when the guy you've supported seemingly turns against you. When someone "has your back," it's typically regarded as a good thing to have theirs, too.

    So what is Ed obligated to do? Perhaps he could have been more transparent and open with his streetcar supporters about his misgivings; perhaps he never intended to follow through on the MAPS vote, and just simply didn't reveal that to his supporters. That's how many politicians operate. However, Ed casts himself as a person of integrity, an atypical politician. I cannot speculate because I simply don't understand where he's coming from. That should alarm everyone because this is someone whom I actually know. How can Ed claim transparency here when people who know him don't even know what his positions are?

    He says he wants dialogue, but when he held a big public forum about transit, he did not provide a forum for the streetcar supporters to respond to the criticism about the streetcar leveled from the stage of the event. Is this anyone's definition of "dialogue?" If that's dialogue, it's one sided. Further, as has been pointed out in other threads, many of the comments made by his speaker were inaccurate, adding insult to injury. And yet, in this dialogue, there was no way to set the record straight. That's more like a press conference than a conversation.

    Ed fails to accept the MAPS vote. It doesn't seem to enter his mind that the voters have spoken. He doesn't seem to understand why people feel passionately about already having voted on this issue.

    As for myself, I was truly excited when Ed was elected, because as a progressive, I thought it would be nice to see more ideological balance on the council.

    However, my definition of progressive differs from Ed's, apparently. In my view, progressives don't simply complain about problems and attack institutions, they solve problems. Think of some of the greatest progressives: Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR. These people got things done and built institutions. It would be sad if people were to misinterpret progressivism as representing a sector of aggrieved people who constantly complain about things but don't offer workable solutions to problems, or who are unable to work with others because they cannot sell their vision to a broader audience.

    Ed's record of actually proposing a solution, winning support for it among his fellow councilors, and bringing people together for a common goal at this point is remarkably bad. His key victory -- one that should be lauded -- is getting the nondiscrimination resolution passed by council. For that, he truly deserves plaudits.

    His post may be very well intentioned, but it comes across as condescending.

    Anger is not the problem, Ed. The problems are 1) your failure to unequivocally state your position on the streetcar, and 2) your apparent indifference to the will of MAPS voters.

    How on earth can this man build an electoral coalition to become mayor? There are other constituencies of Ed's who supported him who are also having misgiving besides streetcar and transit supporters. He's not creating a lot of new friends and he's alienating a lot of old ones.

    One final note: in the "failure to see the big picture" category, Ed seems to overlook the fact that the citizens of OKC went to the polls and publicly supported a major transit initiative. That is historic, and something to build upon. Were he to succeed in altering this vote, I cannot imagine a future in which OKC citizens would support future transit initiatives.

    Let's use this vote for a transit initiative for what it is: an extremely positive building block from which we can establish an even better overall transit system.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    I think one thing that is coming out of this discussion is that projects put into a bucket like this that require entirely different kinds of planning carry with them what I'd call a terrible "impedance mismatch" in terms of the kinds of planning needed to bring them to fruition. By that, I mean its one thing to say "We want to build a convention center," which amounts to identifying size, land, features, acquisition costs, and time. But to say "We want a streetcar" is deceptively complex, because you're obviously not just going to buy a bunch of streetcars and let them start running essentially in a vacuum. That idea has to be integrated into some semblance of a plan that considers the other forms of transportation in the area.

    I want to insist I'm carefully neutral on this general streetcar issue. Many people strongly support it, have put great effort into it, know it was part of the original intent initiative, and the voters passed it, so in that vein every effort should be made to get it built as "intended." But if there is someone more learned out there that says, "hey, wait, there's a legitimate "X" factor to consider before you roll out those streetcars," then it would be poor stewardship of the project to press ahead blindly without performing some level of due diligence to hear out those issues. And maybe that's already been done. Won't presume to say that I know either way. I am certainly no streetcar opponent.

    The point here is that if you build out the streetcars in a vacuum, but don't integrate them properly (and I am not saying this is the case), it looks like an ill-conceived project. On the other hand, if you don't build them at all, you've negated the voice of the people in their vote. Neither is a particularly wise choice, IMHO.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    You could almost say the streetcar plan has been evaluated ad nauseum, beginning with the Fixed Guideways Study, then the Alternatives Analysis, COTPA assessments used for federal funding grant proposals, preliminary engineering studies by Jacobs, 2 1/2 years of input to and from the Transit Subcomittee and now the route analysis by Jacobs Engineering and Rick Gustafson. I'm not worried that it has suffered from lack of analysis or planning. The advantage and disadvantage of buses is that routes are flexible, and COTPA representatives have been gracious enough to attend all the subcommittee meetings, a bus study is due shortly and I feel confident every effort will be made to coordinate the two modes.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch View Post
    Pete:

    Tell Ed thanks for the psychology and brain trust lessons. But what most of us really need to know at this point is the answer to a very simple question. Does Ed support taking any of the $120 million committed by City Council for the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar project and spending it on the bus system instead? We'll be waiting to hear his answer.
    Ed reads these forums, so you already did tell him.

  13. #213
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    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    One thing to remember about Ed and many politicians is that it is a lot easier to be AGAINST things than to be FOR things. The anti crowd is usually the more vocal and activist. However, on this issue Ed is finding out the PRO crowd is the more vocal. And, Ed needs to learn that it takes real skill to be inclusive and transparent but still have leadership. Consensus often means "least common denominator". Ed needs to pick a side and lead on this issue, and then build support from his fellow council members. This is a skill of leadership. If he can't do it on one issue, how could he possibly hope to be an effective mayor?

  14. Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by OSUFan View Post
    Back to the topic of Mr. Shadid for Mayor. It has been pretty clear the Shadid has set out to be the "contrarian" of the council. I don't always agree with him but I don't think it ever hurts to have someone like that on the council. However, do you want someone like that as your Mayor? I'm sure some people do but to me a lot of the Mayor's job is PR work on behalf of the city. Maybe that is a dumb way for me to look at it but I can't see Mr. Shadid in that role.
    I totally agree. I voted for him as City Councilman but would not vote for him as Mayor

  15. #215

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Like (#220)
    Last edited by boscorama; 04-02-2013 at 08:10 PM. Reason: forgot to Reply With Quote

  16. Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    You won't like hearing this.... but it looks like you're about to have a piece of paper (the MAPS 3 resolution) in which only five of those who signed it will be still be on the city council in two weeks. Four members will have had nothing to do with signing the resolution. Two - Pete White and Ed Shadid - are pro public transit but have questions about the streetcar system. Of the other two about to get seated (if voting patterns hold), Greiner has indicated public transit, downtown is not on the top of his list of priorities. Not sure about Pettis. Folks, get ready... you will likely be questioned. You will likely be challenged. Whether it's right or wrong, whether you like it or not.
    Can a good thought out discussion and debate online not assist you in prepping for this?

  17. #217

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    You won't like hearing this.... but it looks like you're about to have a piece of paper (the MAPS 3 resolution) in which only five of those who signed it will be still be on the city council in two weeks. Four members will have had nothing to do with signing the resolution. Two - Pete White and Ed Shadid - are pro public transit but have questions about the streetcar system. Of the other two about to get seated (if voting patterns hold), Greiner has indicated public transit, downtown is not on the top of his list of priorities. Not sure about Pettis. Folks, get ready... you will likely be questioned. You will likely be challenged. Whether it's right or wrong, whether you like it or not.
    Can a good thought out discussion and debate online not assist you in prepping for this?
    Rubbing it in just a wee little bit? Do I detect a little glee in your tone? Your point is made.

    That said, do you think Skip Kelly was a big streetcar fan? I didn't see that. He was in the Shadid-White block, if you can call it that.

    Reducing MAPS to a "piece of paper" seems like a reach. All contracts and agreements are on paper. Doesn't mean they can't get violated but there would be political fallout.

    As far as being challenged, I think the new council members will also be challenged, as will you when appropriate.

    I'm sure this will be good for drumming up readership to your blog.

  18. Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Good grief Sooner... NO! I'm not gleeful. If there is an effort to tear up that resolution, I have difficulty seeing how it won't be ugly and painful for our city, and potentially deadly to the MAPS brand. l'm trying to throw some cold water on you, wake you up to what's happening. Quit seeing me as the enemy on this..... if you really think this is about me drumming up readership for my blog, you're absolutely wrong.
    Read my comment again... I'm suggesting you guys prep up ....

  19. #219

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Already prepped as can be. We'll do our best to honor the intent of the voters. Ultimately it is all up to Council. We knew this going into into it.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Good grief Sooner... NO! I'm not gleeful. If there is an effort to tear up that resolution, I have difficulty seeing how it won't be ugly and painful for our city, and potentially deadly to the MAPS brand. l'm trying to throw some cold water on you, wake you up to what's happening. Quit seeing me as the enemy on this..... if you really think this is about me drumming up readership for my blog, you're absolutely wrong.
    Read my comment again... I'm suggesting you guys prep up ....
    OK. I obviously misread your comments. Mea culpa.

  21. #221

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Good grief Sooner... NO! I'm not gleeful. If there is an effort to tear up that resolution, I have difficulty seeing how it won't be ugly and painful for our city, and potentially deadly to the MAPS brand. l'm trying to throw some cold water on you, wake you up to what's happening. Quit seeing me as the enemy on this..... if you really think this is about me drumming up readership for my blog, you're absolutely wrong.
    Read my comment again... I'm suggesting you guys prep up ....
    And nice hear your comments Steve.

  22. #222

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    I think everyone is quite awake. I've been to multiple meetings recently, however, and have been gratified at the extremely widespread support for the streetcar in multiple camps, some of which surprised me.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Well at least Ed doesn't have to worry about running against Gary Marrs now.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Word on the street indicates that Shadid and Greiner are not exactly rowing the boat in the same direction.

  25. #225

    Default Re: Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Word on the street indicates that Shadid and Greiner are not exactly rowing the boat in the same direction.
    So what? When has Ed ever rowed in the same direction as anyone else?

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