Self defense - Racist style

[jstanthrnme]

This seems like a story that Oprah's producers should pick up on. .

[fuzzytoad]

This seems like a story that Oprah's producers should pick up on. .

please god no

[nighttrain12]

This seems like a story that Oprah's producers should pick up on. .

Or Nancy Grace.

[Karried]

oh God no.. not Nancy Grace... aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhggggggggggggggggggggggggg!

This is unreal.

[Thunder]

Any chance this trial will make headlines across the nation and televised for hours each day?

[CuatrodeMayo]

The 14-year-olds mom is almost unbearable to listen to during interviews...

[Midtowner]

Any chance this trial will make headlines across the nation and televised for hours each day?

This probably will not go to trial. Less than 1% of cases go to trial.

[nighttrain12]

This probably will not go to trial. Less than 1% of cases go to trial.

That's only if both sides are willing to comprise and I don't see that happening here. The DA has to charge Ersland with something but I don't see Ersland admitting to anything. He'll take his chances with a jury.

Heck, we could have multiple trials. Not guilty in the first one. Then the federal civil rights trial, then a civil case trial filed by the Mother of robber #2.

[gmwise]

Lots of this on here all of the sudden:

LOL.
I have to agree with Midtown on that.

[kevinpate]

For those surprised, bad adults have used youth for the heavy lifting for a long long long long time.

Had this been a robbery sans any deaths, if the youth get away clean, the adults take the lion share, with props to the kiddos and promise of more easy money as they earn their way to respect. If they don't get away clean,they are juvi's, they are facing different consequences, particularly if they stand like men and don't mention the adult 'mentors'.

Guns change things. As for the DA reconsidering after further research, it wasn't a clear question straight out of the box that the junior robber and his mentors could be charged with felony murder, but I do think the DA has, yet again, made the correct call.
Any adult facing the felony murder can be death eligible, should the DA lean that way. It doesn't take a great deal to press death eligibility.

Predictions
Ersland - plea to something other than M1
(I truly do not see the man taking is changes on a jury)
Adult 'mentors' - pleas as charged, not max sentencing
(doesn't need to be now that we have the 85% serve before parole rule)
Youthful robber
(probably works out a plea via the youthful offender act, and whether he makes it to adult prison depends on attitude and actions during the sentence. After all, they'll need him to testify against the 'mentors' )

[gmwise]

please god no

OMFG, lets hope O is hibernating.

[PennyQuilts]

Predictions
Ersland - plea to something other than M1
(I truly do not see the man taking is changes on a jury)
Adult 'mentors' - pleas as charged, not max sentencing
(doesn't need to be now that we have the 85% serve before parole rule)
Youthful robber
(probably works out a plea via the youthful offender act, and whether he makes it to adult prison depends on attitude and actions during the sentence. After all, they'll need him to testify against the 'mentors' )

I wouldn't bet against you, especially on the adult thugs and the kid. The kid will turn himself inside out to stay in juvenile court and that means singing. The two adults will be in jail a long time and any probation/parol they might be on will be revoked in addition to what goes with these charges. Did you see that second adult? Mercy. Looks like someone ran over his head.

[Midtowner]

For those surprised, bad adults have used youth for the heavy lifting for a long long long long time.

Had this been a robbery sans any deaths, if the youth get away clean, the adults take the lion share, with props to the kiddos and promise of more easy money as they earn their way to respect. If they don't get away clean,they are juvi's, they are facing different consequences, particularly if they stand like men and don't mention the adult 'mentors'.

Guns change things. As for the DA reconsidering after further research, it wasn't a clear question straight out of the box that the junior robber and his mentors could be charged with felony murder, but I do think the DA has, yet again, made the correct call.
Any adult facing the felony murder can be death eligible, should the DA lean that way. It doesn't take a great deal to press death eligibility.

Predictions
Ersland - plea to something other than M1
(I truly do not see the man taking is changes on a jury)
Adult 'mentors' - pleas as charged, not max sentencing
(doesn't need to be now that we have the 85% serve before parole rule)
Youthful robber
(probably works out a plea via the youthful offender act, and whether he makes it to adult prison depends on attitude and actions during the sentence. After all, they'll need him to testify against the 'mentors' )

I dunno if the felony murder indictments will stick. The Oklahoma statute is unclear on co-felon liability (in that it's not even mentioned), but Oklahoma has adopted the common law. At common law, co-felons can't be held liable for the death of a co-felon in the commission of a dangerous felony.

These convictions will go to the criminal court of appeals... and they'll be convicted because each of the suspects thus far has confessed.

[kevinpate]

It'll stick Mid.

With respect, the statutes address the matter, and the question has previously been decided by the Court of Criminal Appeals. Check out the Dickens decision at 2005 OK CR 4, 106 P.3d 599 (Case Number: F-2003-544, Decided: 02/04/2005)

Not identical facts, but more than close enough to be a wet blanket for the players involved in the robbery side of the current mess.

[twinkles]

And the forty-two year old was pals with the mom. Did you see that, ECO? You called it.

[Midtowner]

It'll stick Mid.

With respect, the statutes address the matter, and the question has previously been decided by the Court of Criminal Appeals. Check out the Dickens decision at 2005 OK CR 4, 106 P.3d 599 (Case Number: F-2003-544, Decided: 02/04/2005)

Not identical facts, but more than close enough to be a wet blanket for the players involved in the robbery side of the current mess.

I've checked it and you're right to an extent. First off, the OCCA has not expressly adopted the proximate cause test over the agency test (although, they just about have. Second, even Dickens isn't really on point because Ersland's killing the robber is what I'd definitely argue as being an unforeseeable supervening act which cuts off liability.

Further, Dickens was decided by a 3-2 vote with a strongly written dissent. Since that time, Judge Lewis has been appointed to the OCCA by Brad Henry. My guess is that he and the other two votes which remain would be bigger fans of the agency theory version of the felony murder doctrine rather than the proximate cause theory, especially considering that the vast majority of the states have adopted the agency theory.

[BB37]

I'm sure glad I don't live in Oklahoma County anymore. I sure wouldn't want to sit on that jury.

As others have said re the pharmacist, I don't see any Oklahoma jury ever convicting him of murder 1. If it doesn't get pleaded down to a lesser charge, the jury will select a lesser finding.

The two "adult" ex-cons, who put the kids up to commiting the robbery, should have the book thrown at them. Hopefully this is their 'third strike.'

[nighttrain12]

I've been talking to my relatives in Wisconsin and California on the phone the last few days and the first thing out of their mouths is wanting to talk about this case. LOL I think it is going to be a long drawn out national case like the Bernhard Goetz situation. He also 'overdid' it on shooting those 4 thugs that tried to rob him on the subway but the law only convicted him on illegal firearms possession. Also, he was found guilty in civil court for many millions of dollars but of course making 20K a year, he has never paid any of it.

[nighttrain12]

http://newsok.com/pharmacist-in-okla...ad_story_title

Ersland gave up all his guns to his defense attorney, Irven Box as partial payment for lawyer services. The Judge wanted to know exactly how many guns he owned (for whatever reason) and now he doesn't have to tell because of his 5th amendment rights. The Judge is mad because she feels like she got tricked by Ersland and Box. LOL

[BBatesokc]

Everything about this story is tragic. I don't blame DA Prater for charging Ersland. I feel the DA has an obligation to enforce the law without emotion or regard to popular opinion. I also feel the jury has an obligation to interpret the law in the community's best interest and acquit him.

Whatever the end, the damage has been done.

Ersland is now and forever either a hero or a child killer.

His defense will most likely bankrupt him as I don't know a quality lawyer that will defend murder 1 for less than $100,000.

I was interviewed by FOX25 the other night regarding this case because of a conversation I had with a reporter a long time ago.

While I am a big fan of an individual's right to carry a gun, I am a bigger fan of that person fully realizing the awesome responsibility and liability that comes with carrying and potentially using a weapon of deadly force.

I feel way too many people casually buy a weapon secure in their vigilante/cowboy mentality that when the time comes they will let their gun settle the score and potentially save their life. The problem though most often is that most people buy a gun without ever knowing how they will really act when put in a situation where they feel threatened. Some people can remain calm and continue to make rational decisions. Most however simply react and often with blinders on.

Many times I have been in a situation where I felt my safety and/or life could be in danger. I am not only licensed to carry a concealed weapon but I am trained and licensed as an armed private investigator. That being said I choose to carry nothing more than a taser and reserve the guns for home protection.

I do not want to find myself one day standing before a judge and jury trying to convey the fear I felt when I pulled the trigger.

[fuzzytoad]

Is anyone else finding Judge Bass-LeSure's actions during this whole thing a bit strange?

[kevinpate]

> during this whole thing

There are those who would opine that's too limiting a phrase. I'm not well enough acquainted with her activities here or in other matters to shake my head yea or nay on the matter.

However, ya gotta hand it to Box in this circumstance. Not everyone can two step that well in tennis shoes

[fuzzytoad]

> during this whole thing

There are those who would opine that's too limiting a phrase. I'm not well enough acquainted with her activities here or in other matters to shake my head yea or nay on the matter.

Well it just seems strange to me that both times she's(that I know of) seen the defendant, the DA has supported and defended Mr. Ersland's attorney when confronting a decision of the Judge..

I'm not acquainted with her activities either and I don't know if this is a common occurance with the DA in other cases, so I wondered if anyone else found it strange or am I just imagining things?

[nighttrain12]

http://newsok.com/druggist-jerome-er...ad_story_title

The pharmacist Jerome Ersland has done an interview further explaining his actions. He thought the robber that was shot was trying to get back up and was talking to him so he shot him 5 more times in self defense to protect himself and the 2 other female employees there.

[Midtowner]

He should really STFU. This interview differs greatly from the one he gave immediately after the event. He's running dangerously close to shooting his credibility straight to hell.