Streetcar

[Spartan]

Downtown is probably actually safer than the suburbs.

No doubt, but I'm just making it clear that skepticism over elementary school students riding the rails home isn't about rail itself..

[fuzzytoad]

I don't think it's so much the idea of kids riding the rails home from school that bothers me, because let's face it, tons of little kids walk long distances alone to go home every day. What bothers me is kids going home from school alone, period. Where are the parents of all these kids?

Seriously? you do realize that this isn't 1955, or even the 70's, right?

They're at work. If the kid still has both parents, he's at least got that going for him over most kids in Oklahoma, but they're both at work.

[jbrown84]

A couple questions to ponder:

1) Should the transit hub include city buses despite the nearly brand new central bus station in Midtown?

2) Should the transit hub include space for rental car agencies?

[krisb]

A couple questions to ponder:

1) Should the transit hub include city buses despite the nearly brand new central bus station in Midtown?

2) Should the transit hub include space for rental car agencies?

I say keep the city bus terminal, just make it a stop on the streetcar line. Although I also like the idea of making the current bus station the new Greyhound Bus station.

[Spartan]

I think this is where you start running into inefficiencies and duplications of services and facilities with existing and planned separate projects.

[betts]

I think the transit hub would have to include city buses. I'm trying to think of an alternate use for that space in Midtown, but I'm sure there could be one. I would think that rental car space is unnecessary. People flying in can rent cars at the airport, and if you're coming in by train, surely those people would be more open to public transportation.

[kevinpate]

I think the transit hub would have to include city buses. I'm trying to think of an alternate use for that space in Midtown, but I'm sure there could be one. I would think that rental car space is unnecessary. People flying in can rent cars at the airport, and if you're coming in by train, surely those people would be more open to public transportation.

What do you mean, those people?
- Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder

LMAO

[Kerry]

I think the transit hub would have to include city buses. I'm trying to think of an alternate use for that space in Midtown, but I'm sure there could be one.

OK - see if this is feasable. A new downtown transit hub would include city bus service. The existing hub, recently completed, becomes the new Greyhound Bus Station. The current Greyhound Bus station is sold and the project for that block can commence.

[Spartan]

Especially if we can somehow, magically, turn around our bus system..

OK - see if this is feasable. A new downtown transit hub would include city bus service. The existing hub, recently completed, becomes the new Greyhound Bus Station. The current Greyhound Bus station is sold and the project for that block can commence.

I would just hate to see the Greyhound station get torn down. Or any buildings on that black for that matter.

[jbrown84]

I would love for it to be at Santa Fe. The Brewers aren't adequately using it anyway.

OK - see if this is feasable. A new downtown transit hub would include city bus service. The existing hub, recently completed, becomes the new Greyhound Bus Station. The current Greyhound Bus station is sold and the project for that block can commence.

Sounds perfect. Would go with restoration of Union Bus Station, as opposed to demolition, though.

[onthestrip]

I dont think the streetcar hub has to be the transit hub of the future. Have the the streetcar hub be an effecient but small hub and then build a new large transit station (trains, lightrail, buses) south of existing I40 somewhere. Then just make sure the streetcar has a line that goes to the new transit station.

[soonerguru]

I dont think the streetcar hub has to be the transit hub of the future. Have the the streetcar hub be an effecient but small hub and then build a new large transit station (trains, lightrail, buses) south of existing I40 somewhere. Then just make sure the streetcar has a line that goes to the new transit station.

No. This is not how it's going to be. There will be a universal hub connecting the streetcar to the commuter rail. It would make sense to connect to the buses as well, IMO.

[jbrown84]

I think this is planned to be THE hub.

[Urban Pioneer]

When the Fixed Guideway Study was being completed, the turmoil of Union Station was at its peak and SanteFe was regarded as hard to convert. Therefore, the hub issue itself was somewhat glazed over.

What we have found out since is that SanteFe has an incredible opportunity that has been hidden. There is a tunnel running through it for pedestrians and stairwell platforms that have been buried.

The Hub Analysis Study that is being planned by ACOG will probably take a much closer technical look at the possibilities of SanteFe.

[Spartan]

It will be interesting to see if the businesses in the loading docks stay or go.

[Spartan]

I could see the bus station being used as a very cool space for a little bodega or maybe a pizzeria or something.

[betts]

It would be crazy to tear down the Greyhound bus station. That's a great space with a lot of potential.

[HOT ROD]

I like Kerry's idea, but instead of just removing the Union bus station - we can keep it's facade and let the other urban development incorporate it.

I also disagree that we need the hub to be in the current CBD area.. There's no reason why the hub couldn't be in C2S somewhere, with the streetcar connecting it to the rest of downtown. After all, isn't the goal of this whole thing to get people using mass transit and AWAY from cars/busses/etc? Well, having the hub near the convention center ON the streetcar line accomplishes that and many many more.

And I completely agree that the current bus hub in midtown should become greyhound (but also be on the streetcar line). I think it would also be a good idea to have a car rental or two there or at Amtrak (like it used to be). The C2S main hub could be Commmuter Rail/HSR/light rail/streetcar/city bus intermodal facility (in other words, I don't think greyhound needs to be there).

[HOT ROD]

I second David Pollard! Definitely exciting times for Oklahoma City, so PROUD of my hometown!!!!

[Platemaker]

I think the best potential hub could in fact be Santa Fe. In ten year, when the convention center will probably be finished and operating, the land the Cox is on is plenty of space for a great urban transportation hub.

[Platemaker]

Here is an interesting proposal for a transit hub in Baltimore. Notice the similarities to the Santa Fe Station layout.

[Kerry]

Here is an interesting proposal for a transit hub in Baltimore. Notice the similarities to the Santa Fe Station layout.

Platemaker - you are thinking to small. Dream big! That hub might do for a remote hub but not for downtown. The downtown hub has to be larger than life. Think "Old Penn Station" not "New Penn Station".

The city spent how many millions on the Performing Arts Center that get used a couple of time per week. Spend at least that much on a building that will be used daily.

[betts]

Platemaker - you are thinking to small. Dream big! That hub might do for a remote hub but not for downtown. The downtown hub has to be larger than life. Think "Old Penn Station" not "New Penn Station".

The city spent how many millions on the Performing Arts Center that get used a couple of time per week. Spend at least that much on a building that will be used daily.

The problem is, Kerry, that current funding for a hub comes out of the streetcar millions. If you spend that much on the building, there will be no transit to link to it. I think the key is to work with the concept of ultimate expansion of the Santa Fe station. Perhaps utilizing the Cox building in the future would work, combining it with the station as suggested previously.

[Hutch]

Under MAPS 3, Oklahoma City Council specificallly directed $120 million for the Modern Streetcar and $10 million to go toward a hub facility or commuter rail infrastructure. The hub funding is separate and distinct from the funding for the streetcar system. Also, it was not intended to pay for the full development and construction of the intermodal hub, which will certainly require significant more funding if the facility is to serve as our future regional rail transit center. We are most likely a number of years away from development of a commuter rail system and construction of an intermodal hub facility. As with the MAPS 3 funding for the Modern Streetcar, we have the opportunity to leverage the $10 million to obtain FTA New Starts matching funds, potentially providing an additional $40 million for hub development. Once ACOG completes the current Intermodal Transit Hub Study and the upcoming Alternatives Analysis for the Fixed Guideway Study rail tranist corridors, we will be very well positioned to seek additional federal funds for development of the hub. Until then, the best thing we can probably do with the $10 million once the hub study is completed and a hub location is determined is to use some or all of the funding to secure the properties that will be needed for eventual development of the hub.

[Kerry]

The problem is, Kerry, that current funding for a hub comes out of the streetcar millions. If you spend that much on the building, there will be no transit to link to it. I think the key is to work with the concept of ultimate expansion of the Santa Fe station. Perhaps utilizing the Cox building in the future would work, combining it with the station as suggested previously.

Betts - it has to built in phases but that doen't mean the whole plan can't be conceived at once and built on a time table. Just look at OU memorial stadium. It was built in three or four different expansions with each expansion giving no regard to future expansions. The whole place looks like a mish mash. On the other hand, look at T. Boone Pickens stadium. The whole thing looks uniform and was built in 2 or 3 phases spread over a couple years. We need one plan with multiple phases spread over several years, not multiple plans with one phase each spread over multiple years.