Target

[Jersey Boss]

Self check does have loss- countless stories about people ringing up half of their items (Walmart neighborhood markets don't even need you to place in bagging at all), but the majority of the theft is like you said- people just walking out. I have a friend in LP at the highest volume Target in the metro. The amount of grab and walk/runs in over the top. They are trained not to leave the store in a chase because the danger increases as you cross the store line. Every place that I managed was prevention over apprehension, as our life was not worth the merchandise. I can say in all honesty that I broke that rule numerous times because unfortunately you do take the theft personal.

Any idea on how much shrinkage is driven by employees?

[jn1780]

The problem is it makes brick-and-mortar stores even less competitive due to their overhead.

Sam's and Costco have a good model IMO.

A lot of that may be due to the lower item count and bulkiness of the inventory. I'm sure Walmart knows better than anyone that its a lot easier to prevent shrinkage at a Sam's club than at a Walmart. They deploy receipt checkers at Supercenters, but they seem to be limited to looking for bigger items.

[Shortsyeararound]

Any idea on how much shrinkage is driven by employees?

It is usually higher than you think. Averages for the 3 main shrink (loss) are: internal (employee) 35-45%, external (orc’s, etc) 35-40%, paperwork 20-30%. Most theft is a crime of opportunity, given that if an individual thinks they can get away with it they will try. Those percents are: 80% will steal given the opportunity, 10% will always steal, and 10% will never steal. The more theft, the higher stuff costs to offset the loss. Retail is seeing huge thefts compared to years past. This could be part of the inflation around pricing both ways - steal because it costs more- cost more because stealing is up.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

The past year has brought an avalanche of data that have major retailers reconsidering self-checkout. Walmart has been testing fewer self-checkouts and hiring more cashiers. A lot more. The twist is that the data says customers will use regular cashier based checkout as long the queue is never more than two deep. We can expect cashiers in numbers far beyond what we saw before the self-checkout era. The huge upside for big retail is that it would all cost dramatically less than maintaining the current hybrid. Theft at self-checkout, angry customers/workers dealing with technical glitches, it’s all brought on a new way of looking at the checkout process. If this is the first you have heard of this, get ready. Here’s some good reading if you’re interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...stores/675676/ (paywall)
https://archive.ph/mUFXy (no paywall)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/busin...ing/index.html

[Rover]

It is usually higher than you think. Averages for the 3 main shrink (loss) are: internal (employee) 35-45%, external (orc’s, etc) 35-40%, paperwork 20-30%. Most theft is a crime of opportunity, given that if an individual thinks they can get away with it they will try. Those percents are: 80% will steal given the opportunity, 10% will always steal, and 10% will never steal. The more theft, the higher stuff costs to offset the loss. Retail is seeing huge thefts compared to years past. This could be part of the inflation around pricing both ways - steal because it costs more- cost more because stealing is up.

Stealing isn’t caused by inflation. That’s just political thinking. In fact, stealing increases costs and prices and you can argue that increased stealing increases inflation. People are honest or not, and unfortunately more people keep thinking there are many justifications for being dishonest. Stealing because of opportunity is just low moral character. Character is not what you do in the light, but what you do when no one is looking. Start calling them what they are….THIEVES. You seem to think 90% of people are thieves…. I don’t buy it. I just think thieves and dishonest people justify their dishonesty by claiming everyone does it so it is ok.

[Urbanized]

80% of WHO will steal, given the opportunity? The general public?! I refuse to believe that only 20% of the people in this country (or any country, frankly) are generally honest. There’s no way that’s not bad data.

[Dob Hooligan]

I think those numbers have been conventional wisdom in business for decades. I recall hearing it in the 1970s when I worked at the IGA. It does not imply every employee is an organized criminal. It means everybody will "accidentally" cut open a box of cookies and share the "spoiled" product with the other employes around break time; load their plate with extra fries at lunch break; take a quart of oil for their car etc... The point of that observation is to help businesspeople to get their operation more closely aligned with the 10% who never steal and away from the 10% who always steal.

Funny story from the background of the movie "Casino" is that the FBI secretly recorded a mobster management council meeting in Kansas City where Carl Thomas, who was overseeing their Las Vegas skimming operation from his position as Slots-A-Fun operator, explained the entire enterprise in depth. One item he mentioned was "Leakage", which was employee embezzlement. Less than 10%, Thomas was adamant that it wasn't worth the risk of trying to eliminate it, but several mobsters were incensed that someone would steal part of the money they stole.

[jn1780]

Define "generally honest". Just check out threads about self-checks on this site and you will probably find at least 1 person who says "Well that's their fault" if a self check out machine failed in the customers favor. They think they have the moral high ground. The same can be said with a struggling parent who found an opportunity to steal. Doesn't happen widely across the population, but small increased opportunities add up.

[Shortsyeararound]

I never said 90% of people are thieves, but you can't judge a book by its cover, so you don't know who the thief is or is not. Thief of product/money/time- could literally be anyone. I used to train my cashiers on proper money handling techniques like actual counting back from what the customer pair (example- total $80.20, paid with 100, cashier counts back .80cents makes 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 5 makes 90, 10 makes 100. How many times have you been given the wrong amount in your favor and you did not return it- that is theft, its not your "tip". I would love to believe more people are honest- man I want that for sure.
Political thinking it is not- why would you even go directly to that. Another example- say your person with questionable moral character has 35.00 dollars to spend on a pair of shoes for their child at back-to-school and the pair costs $40 bucks. They can not buy the shoe or look for a cheaper shoe or they can decided to steal if given the opportunity. They had full intention to purchase but decided against it and stole. Nothing political about it. It literally happens everyday. Stealing is not a red/blue thinking thing. If you want to go political- I am a registered democrat but wish shoplifters were prosecuted. Currently that is a huge argument in some larger west coast based cities that vote the same as I- crime is rampant and it is because of lax policy. I was in this field for 27 years- I do know what I am talking about and not like what Floyd says to Red "I do believe you are talking out of your a$$".

[fortpatches]

The past year has brought an avalanche of data that have major retailers reconsidering self-checkout. Walmart has been testing fewer self-checkouts and hiring more cashiers. A lot more. The twist is that the data says customers will use regular cashier based checkout as long the queue is never more than two deep. We can expect cashiers in numbers far beyond what we saw before the self-checkout era. The huge upside for big retail is that it would all cost dramatically less than maintaining the current hybrid. Theft at self-checkout, angry customers/workers dealing with technical glitches, it’s all brought on a new way of looking at the checkout process. If this is the first you have heard of this, get ready. Here’s some good reading if you’re interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...stores/675676/ (paywall)
https://archive.ph/mUFXy (no paywall)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/busin...ing/index.html

Honestly, I would like to do away with checkouts all together. I'd probably shop at a Zero-contact store, like the Amazon brand brick-and-mortar stores, if we had any around here.

On a separate note, the new pay-by-palm thing at Whole Foods kinda creeps me out....

[Bunty]

The past year has brought an avalanche of data that have major retailers reconsidering self-checkout. Walmart has been testing fewer self-checkouts and hiring more cashiers. A lot more. The twist is that the data says customers will use regular cashier based checkout as long the queue is never more than two deep. We can expect cashiers in numbers far beyond what we saw before the self-checkout era. The huge upside for big retail is that it would all cost dramatically less than maintaining the current hybrid. Theft at self-checkout, angry customers/workers dealing with technical glitches, it’s all brought on a new way of looking at the checkout process. If this is the first you have heard of this, get ready. Here’s some good reading if you’re interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...stores/675676/ (paywall)
https://archive.ph/mUFXy (no paywall)

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/busin...ing/index.html

Interesting how the two Stillwater super Walmarts do check out differently. The W. 6th one is 100% self-checkout, while the N. Perkins Rd. one has both ways available. When there, I'll go to a cashier if not busy to show support for their job. But if cashiers are busy, I'll use self-checkout. Not often but sometimes may have to wait for one to become available. I think I like the arrangement at the Perkins Rd. Walmart a little better.

[TornadoKegan]

Honestly, I would like to do away with checkouts all together. I'd probably shop at a Zero-contact store, like the Amazon brand brick-and-mortar stores, if we had any around here.

On a separate note, the new pay-by-palm thing at Whole Foods kinda creeps me out....

i dont mind paying with my phone but the minute you make me pay with my palm or with a micro chip i am done

[therhett17]

i dont mind paying with my phone but the minute you make me pay with my palm or with a micro chip i am done

Paying with your phone is literally paying with a microchip

[FighttheGoodFight]

I did read the Retail group that said 95 billion (45 billion theft alone) in sales was from theft ended up being false and overstated. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/organiz...g-merchandise/

[Pete]

Shrinkage is not just shoplifting, it's also employee theft (anyone who has ever worked in retail knows this is a huge problem) and damaged goods.

Shoplifting is a cost of doing business and a calculation. Most stores just budget it in rather than hire a security guard or more staff.


Side story about employee theft... I worked at Orbach's when I was in college along with about 10-15 other college guys. One day we were all summoned for a mandatory meeting and interrogated about theft. I was shocked but they never let on as to the nature of the problem so I was confused as to why the owners were so upset. Some time later, I found out a couple of the guys had been taking entire racks of suits out through the loading dock. I never thought about how easy it would be to do something like that.

And working at a mall, there was an entire network of people that would steal from their employer then trade the merchandise for money or for merch from another store. Now with eBay and Craigslist, it's super easy to fence anything stolen.

[ksearls]

Shrinkage is not just shoplifting, it's also employee theft (anyone who has ever worked in retail knows this is a huge problem) and damaged goods.

Shoplifting is a cost of doing business and a calculation. Most stores just budget it in rather than hire a security guard or more staff.


Side story about employee theft... I worked at Orbach's when I was in college along with about 10-15 other college guys. One day we were all summoned for a mandatory meeting and interrogated about theft. I was shocked but they never let on as to the nature of the problem so I was confused as to why the owners were so upset. Some time later, I found out a couple of the guys had been taking entire racks of suits out through the loading dock. I never thought about how easy it would be to do something like that.

And working at a mall, there was an entire network of people that would steal from their employer then trade the merchandise for money or for merch from another store. Now with eBay and Craigslist, it's super easy to fence anything stolen.

I worked at Orbach's too!! When I was 17 or 18. I did layaway and gift wrapping.

[Rover]

Shrinkage is not just shoplifting, it's also employee theft (anyone who has ever worked in retail knows this is a huge problem) and damaged goods.

Shoplifting is a cost of doing business and a calculation. Most stores just budget it in rather than hire a security guard or more staff.


Side story about employee theft... I worked at Orbach's when I was in college along with about 10-15 other college guys. One day we were all summoned for a mandatory meeting and interrogated about theft. I was shocked but they never let on as to the nature of the problem so I was confused as to why the owners were so upset. Some time later, I found out a couple of the guys had been taking entire racks of suits out through the loading dock. I never thought about how easy it would be to do something like that.

And working at a mall, there was an entire network of people that would steal from their employer then trade the merchandise for money or for merch from another store. Now with eBay and Craigslist, it's super easy to fence anything stolen.

Years ago, I owned a company that worked with our clients' merchandise and I had what I thought was a secure storage area with check-in and out of items. One day I got wind of an employee taking something valuable home from the storage. I put out a general announcement that we had something missing and that if anyone knew where it was and returned it I would not call in insurance and the police. The next morning I had piles of returned merchandise. I had no idea of the number of employees that had guilty consciences and had be taking merch from a "secure" lock-up. We had always done background checks, etc., so I thought I had a really honest, good group of employees. Opened my eyes.

And yes, we changed our security systems and merchandise handling procedures. LOL.

[Pete]

Relatively low-paid staff + millions in merchandise + eBay/Craigslist is a problem with no clear answer, so that's another thing you just have to budget for.

I still have no idea what the Orbach's employee thieves did with racks of suits. Back then, you usually had to work through at least semi-organized crime to shift merchandise like that and would only get pennies on the dollar. Now, you see all this new-in-box merch on eBay and just know most of it was stolen from somewhere.

[dheinz44]

Go on to eBay and look at how many walkie talkies and handheld barcode scanners there are, I used to work in a large retail operation and these would go missing every week to the point where we didn't have enough for people to do their job and would have to send some home. It was a constant cycle of re-ordering. Time theft is also a huge issue with some companies, it's amazing what some people will do to avoid actually doing their job.

[Shortsyeararound]

Go on to eBay and look at how many walkie talkies and handheld barcode scanners there are, I used to work in a large retail operation and these would go missing every week to the point where we didn't have enough for people to do their job and would have to send some home. It was a constant cycle of re-ordering. Time theft is also a huge issue with some companies, it's amazing what some people will do to avoid actually doing their job.

Sensor tag and spiderwrap removers as well.

[Pete]

Time theft is also a huge issue with some companies, it's amazing what some people will do to avoid actually doing their job.

I often see employees at Sam's Club hiding out somewhere in the store (not the breakroom or outside) jacking around on their phone.

[Swake]

I had a Target drive up order a few months ago where when I got home there was one of their iPhone scanner things in one of my bags. I did give it back.

[jn1780]

The Memorial and Penn Target has a bunch of storage containers in their parking lot. Are they about to do another mini remodel or add something?

[Pete]

The Memorial and Penn Target has a bunch of storage containers in their parking lot. Are they about to do another mini remodel or add something?

This is the only building permit I could find for that store and it's from July:

Interior remodel of Ulta at Target sales floor pad. Work to include new finishes and electrical scope.

[jn1780]

This is the only building permit I could find for that store and it's from July:

Maybe that's it. Inside they had a space cleared out in the clothing section. May just be setting up some new displays.