OKC Retail Update

[Snowman]

I hope so. Retail is one area OKC is still indisputably inferior to its peer cities in my opinion.

Having not spent much time in Tulsa, is their retail as spread out as OKC's or do they have more of a single concentrated area where most retailers locate?

Arkansas has a similar trend in that many national retailers choose Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers for their first locations in the state rather than the much larger Little Rock. The main reason for that is retail in Little Rock is very spread out vs Northwest Arkansas has a single focal point around Pinnacle Hills lifestyle center where retailers locate.

They have a similar gravitation to certain power centers as OKC, though some are probably more popular than others. It seems like the have a larger portion of their city limits already developed to residential, commercial or industrial; so they may end up having more urgency to get downtown developing faster.

[MDot]

I always wonder why Tulsa is so much more attractive for retailers than OKC despite its smaller size. It's pretty much always Tulsa first, no matter what. Does anybody think it has anything to do with Wal-Mart's dominance here?

Nordstrom, Von Maur, and Trader Joe's are the only ones that comes to mind at this very second that are speculated/confirmed to locate a store in OKC before Tulsa and Nordstrom is just opening a Nordstrom Rack. I'm sure a full fledged Nordstrom would be located in Tulsa before OKC though. I'm not sure what else located in OKC before Tulsa, but I'm sure there's a handful of others.

[bchris02]

In other retail news, it looks like four new Wal-Mart Neighborhood Markets are planned for OKC as well as one additional Supercenter. Could this be the death knell for a few more Homeland or Buy For Less locations?

As much as I dislike Wal-Mart, my hopes are that they go into some of the more under-served parts of the metro rather than an area where they will kill off nearby competition. I-240 and Sooner Rd in SE OKC has a lot of homes and development yet is a food desert. A Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market would be much welcome there and would have zero effect on any other grocery stores because there are none within a reasonable distance.

[DeluxeOK]

Agreed - and similarly, I have always thought that CVS ought to locate themselves in underserved areas instead of following Walgreens around like big redundant idiot.

[ljbab728]

In other retail news, it looks like four new Wal-Mart Neighborhood Markets are planned for OKC as well as one additional Supercenter. Could this be the death knell for a few more Homeland or Buy For Less locations?

As much as I dislike Wal-Mart, my hopes are that they go into some of the more under-served parts of the metro rather than an area where they will kill off nearby competition. I-240 and Sooner Rd in SE OKC has a lot of homes and development yet is a food desert. A Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market would be much welcome there and would have zero effect on any other grocery stores because there are none within a reasonable distance.

For me, this will have zero effect anyway. There is a new Neighborhood Market planned about one mile from where I live. That just means that I would go there to purchase items that I might drive several miles further to a full service Walmart to purchase. I will continue to use other grocery shopping options just as I have before.

[Plutonic Panda]

In other retail news, it looks like four new Wal-Mart Neighborhood Markets are planned for OKC as well as one additional Supercenter. Could this be the death knell for a few more Homeland or Buy For Less locations?

As much as I dislike Wal-Mart, my hopes are that they go into some of the more under-served parts of the metro rather than an area where they will kill off nearby competition. I-240 and Sooner Rd in SE OKC has a lot of homes and development yet is a food desert. A Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market would be much welcome there and would have zero effect on any other grocery stores because there are none within a reasonable distance.

I thought it said 3 supercenters?

[bchris02]

I thought it said 3 supercenters?

2 Supercenters, one of which is currently under construction in Choctaw so I didn't count it. I hope it isn't 3 Supercenters because they are far more damaging to nearby businesses than Neighborhood Markets.

[MikeLucky]

I hope so. Retail is one area OKC is still indisputably inferior to its peer cities in my opinion.

Having not spent much time in Tulsa, is their retail as spread out as OKC's or do they have more of a single concentrated area where most retailers locate?

Arkansas has a similar trend in that many national retailers choose Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers for their first locations in the state rather than the much larger Little Rock. The main reason for that is retail in Little Rock is very spread out vs Northwest Arkansas has a single focal point around Pinnacle Hills lifestyle center where retailers locate.

From what I understand, the biggest problem OKC has is that most national retailers look at the sheer numbers when they are deciding on new locales. They will look at particular intersections and the amount of traffic at any given time at those intersections. My opinion is that this is where the sprawl hurts us a bit... I think that the typical indicators used for new development don't work as well in OKC given that we are just more physically spread out than any other metro of our comparable population.

For example, I have no problem driving from Norman to NW OKC for a particular retail or dining option, if it's unique or something that I really like. But, my normal daily movements will never show up on any of the normal indicators used for judging how successful a new business will be in OKC... And, I think this is why we see things like the Whole Foods who built a smaller than usual location based on the indicators, only to realize that business is far out-pacing the projections.

So, in my estimation the sprawl hurts our indicators which makes businesses slower to get here... but usually once they are here they realize this fact and proceed accordingly. Getting the Thunder definitely helped as it was an "indicator" on it's own that things here are different than they seem from afar...

Again, just the opinion from someone that doesn't have a business degree...

[Tavia]

It says 4 Neighborhood Markets, 2 Supercenters and 2 Sam's Clubs

[bchris02]

It says 4 Neighborhood Markets, 2 Supercenters and 2 Sam's Clubs

One of the Supercenters is already under construction in Choctaw. I have the feeling the other will be part of the new I-44 retail development in SW OKC. Wal-Mart has wanted a Supercenter in that area for quite some time according to posts I've seen here.

As for density, I think it has more to do with income than actual sprawl. OKC's high income neighborhoods are spread pretty thinly across the metro. Outside perception of this market also has something to do with it as well as Wal-Mart saturation. Like I said in another thread, OKC will have turned a corner when major national retailers start opening here first rather than Tulsa.

[catch22]

One of the Supercenters is already under construction in Choctaw. I have the feeling the other will be part of the new I-44 retail development in SW OKC. Wal-Mart has wanted a Supercenter in that area for quite some time according to posts I've seen here.

As for density, I think it has more to do with income than actual sprawl. OKC's high income neighborhoods are spread pretty thinly across the metro. Outside perception of this market also has something to do with it as well as Wal-Mart saturation. Like I said in another thread, OKC will have turned a corner when major national retailers start opening here first rather than Tulsa.

The I-44 redevelopment is 3 miles from an existing SuperCenter...all highway too.

[Dubya61]

The I-44 redevelopment is 3 miles from an existing SuperCenter...all highway too.

I guess I don't know where the I-44 redevelopment is ... aren't y'all talking about down by the Airport and around 134th? There don't appear to be any WMs there, give or take about 10 miles.

[catch22]

I guess I don't know where the I-44 redevelopment is ... aren't y'all talking about down by the Airport and around 134th? There don't appear to be any WMs there, give or take about 10 miles.

[Tavia]

We have a Supercenter at I-240 and Santa Fe, a Neighborhood market at SW 104th & Western and I'm guessing this is the Neighborhood market at SW 59th And Penn? There is a Neighborhood market at SW 44th and Western also. This pins look like they might be in the wrong spots?

[bchris02]

I guess there can never be too many Wal-Marts in this market. Whatever it takes to keep their monopoly and keep competitors out. I just hope they don't try to destroy downtown.

I wish Crest would build several more stores in the metro. They are the only competitor in this market that actually competes well with Wal-Mart. The stores are usually busy as opposed to crickets in most Homelands.

[catch22]

We have a Supercenter at I-240 and Santa Fe, a Neighborhood market at SW 104th & Western and I'm guessing this is the Neighborhood market at SW 59th And Penn? There is a Neighborhood market at SW 44th and Western also. This pins look like they might be in the wrong spots?

The pins are located correctly according to addresses from Walmart.

[Plutonic Panda]

2 Supercenters, one of which is currently under construction in Choctaw so I didn't count it. I hope it isn't 3 Supercenters because they are far more damaging to nearby businesses than Neighborhood Markets.

Oh, ok. Yeah..tbh. I think there are enough Walmart's in OKC already. :/

[seaofchange]

One of the Neighborhood Markets will be at the NW corner of Rock Creek & 36th Ave NW in Norman.. I believe this is right north of the Fitness One?

Viewer

[MDot]

Something that I have always wondered but never figured out... Why isn't there a Belk located in OKC?

[bchris02]

Something that I have always wondered but never figured out... Why isn't there a Belk located in OKC?

Belk is huge in the Southeast. It's also a chain that varies significantly in quality depending on location. Some are on the level of Dillard's and others are below JC Penney. I believe Stillwater is as far west as they go. Most of them tend to be in small towns or on the outskirts of major cities, except for the ones that were converted from Parisian. The Parisian conversion also probably explains why there is such a variance in quality from store to store.

Parisian was owned by Saks and sold to Belk. It was a notch below a full-line Saks or Nordstrom but above Dillards/Macy's. It was probably similar to a Von Maur.

[Snowman]

Something that I have always wondered but never figured out... Why isn't there a Belk located in OKC?

While it looks like we are in the direction they are growing, we would be the furthest west store if they built one here, the other stores in Oklahoma look like they have been built in the last five to ten year and they probably have not been adding many new stores since 2007

[Spartan]

I thought Edmond killed plans for a new Walmart there?

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah I think they did.

[seaofchange]

While it looks like we are in the direction they are growing, we would be the furthest west store if they built one here, the other stores in Oklahoma look like they have been built in the last five to ten year and they probably have not been adding many new stores since 2007

The newest Belk in Tulsa opened since I left Tulsa in September 2007. I believe it opened probably around late Spring 2008. I think it makes sense for them to open one here.

Belk in South Carolina is in all the major Cities and is more upscale than Dillards/Macy's. Im not sure about the quality of items in Belk in the Tulsa Area.
I would absolutely love to have one here, especially if it would be the same quality at the one near my family's house in Greenville, SC. It was really nice to begin with but they remodeled it significantly in the past year and added some even higher end designers.

[bhawes]

Im from Greer SC and at one time they had a belk off of Wade Hampton Blvd. They are pretty nice stores.