Classen Circle

[Questor]

Oh this is easy. They made their burgers smaller to try to help out with our (Nation's and State's) growing obesity rates. They then went above and beyond and included shakes as typical beverage option for their meals, taking away nasty drinks like soda pops. Really a good move on their part. They're truly an Oklahoma pioneer in terms of offering smaller portions and healthier options for their patrons.

The interesting thing about that change... it seemed to coincidentally coincide with the deadline for them having to list their calories per item on their menu boards as required by the ACA legislation. I'm guessing the sheer terror of having to list the calories of a third pound burger was keeping someone up at night considering they were mum on calories until after the change.

[Questor]

I understand the outrage and agree with it... but if this city couldn't save a world-respected architectural gem there is no way this structure will be saved. The government is just not on the side of preservation here... they say they are, but there are no serious laws or ordinances in place to prevent what is about to happen.

It's really time to stop with the angry phone calls to lawyers and PR folks for companies that don't care and are going to get their way anyway. Folks really need to take the time to understand what historic preservation means in other cities and force these issues with our local councilors.

[Pete]

There is an overwhelming local support for big business across local (and certainly state) government and it's various extensions through committees and other arms.

They are almost always going to defer to the wants and desires of big biz, which should be incredibly obvious in virtually every single decision made.

And as citizens, we keep electing people who are very clear on this broader issue, both through their words and actions.

Until that changes, these types of issues are foregone conclusions.

[Questor]

^^ Yep! Totally agree. And you know, somehow the word has to get out that you can at the same time be pro-business and also have some modicum of standards in place that prevent things like this from happening. It doesn't have to be an either/or choice. We can be very pro business but at the same time have exceptions for exceptional places and architecture.

[Pete]

^^ Yep! Totally agree. And you know, somehow the word has to get out that you can at the same time be pro-business and also have some modicum of standards in place that prevent things like this from happening. It doesn't have to be an either/or choice. We can be very pro business but at the same time have exceptions for exceptional places and architecture.

There is a lot more to being pro business than just letting a few organizations and their leaders get their way on everything.

In fact, you could strongly argue that many of those decisions have led to bleeding education dry and that is already hurting our reputation and will continue to impact the amount of skilled workers and entrepreneurs.

[SoonerQueen]

If Braums wants to put a store in that area, why can't they use the old Horn Seed Co. area? That is vacant and no one would argue about that.

[Teo9969]

If Braums wants to put a store in that area, why can't they use the old Horn Seed Co. area? That is vacant and no one would argue about that.

Meh...In the long run, that Horn Seed location might be one of the most important lots in the city. If the street car extension ends up running up to 63rd/Western via Classen, then the Horn Seed location provides the best opportunity for a multi-modal hub that changes from Street Car to Bus Rapid transit up NW Expressway.

[TheTravellers]

If Braums wants to put a store in that area, why can't they use the old Horn Seed Co. area? That is vacant and no one would argue about that.

There's been talk of personal relationships between the owners of Braum's and the Classen Circle buildings, so that's most likely why Braum's isn't considering other options.

[moose]

The place is a dump. Tear it down.

[shawnw]

And replace it with another dump?

[dankrutka]

The place is a dump. Tear it down.

I know this has been discussed throughout the thread, but it bears repeating. While I disagree this building is an architectural "dump" because I rather like it, it also is an important building historically, particuarly because HiLo provided a place of support for the LGBTQ community when social, legal, and even familial discrimination were the norm. Just saying, "The place is a dump. Tear it down," without any nuance or discussion just feels disrespectful to OKC's LGBTQ community. Moreover, we're talking about replacing this with actual garbage architecture in a standardized Braum's that could go on any property anywhere. I've called Braum's corporate office and told them I'll never eat there again if they tear this building down and I mean it.

[king183]

I know this has been discussed throughout the thread, but it bears repeating. While I disagree this building is an architectural "dump" because I rather like it, it also is an important building historically, particuarly because HiLo provided a place of support for the LGBTQ community when social, legal, and even familial discrimination were the norm. Just saying, "The place is a dump. Tear it down," without any nuance or discussion just feels disrespectful to OKC's LGBTQ community. Moreover, we're talking about replacing this with actual garbage architecture in a standardized Braum's that could go on any property anywhere. I've called Braum's corporate office and told them I'll never eat there again if they tear this building down and I mean it.

This is a key point I think gets overlooked. Braums stores are god awful buildings. They look like strip mall cutouts and are built of cheap, disposable material. Even if you think the current building looks like junk, why would you want it torn down and replaced with junk of lesser architectural value?

[MagzOK]

I will shop at the new Braum's. We stop in there for Milk and small things all the time inbetween our weekend grocery visits. This new Braum's will be right up Western and much closer than any other ones. I think the new Braum's will look better and may prompt other new growth around there. Next thing that needs to be taken out is that gross looking car lot to the south of there on approach to NW Expressway. I might think differently if the HiLo was restored and looked better. My parents met there in the 1960s and a 53 year marriage was born and continues to this day, but that doesn't mean I don't think the place should be saved in its current condition. In addition to new stuff being put in there, I think restoring a huge traffic circle there would be magnificent with maybe nice statue of some of the founders of OKC standing right there in the middle. And not to mention, I seem to remember reading (maybe even somewhere on this website) several years ago that some either had or nearly had bought up all the homes that back up to NW Expressway there between Classen and where the new OnCue is going (toward the west), and has plans to eventually tear down all those homes and build multi-story mixed use facing NW Expressway there. I may be wrong, but I do think I remember reading that.

[rezman]

I also make quick stops at Braum's. While many of their older stores are looking long in the tooth, this one at 164th and N Penn is a nice store and I stop there fairly often when I'm coming from that direction.

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@3...h,-1.22p,2.09z

[Pete]

From https://www.instagram.com/theokaysee/; prints for sale:

[Pete]

Reminder of the community meeting tonight at 6:30 at Crown Heights Christian Church, 4020 N. Western.

[gopokes88]

All you really need to know is this.

https://twitter.com/JordannLucero/st...32681533804545

[Pete]

Everyone who went said: 1) Braum's is determined to go forward with this project as submitted; 2) the meeting was clearly just to 'check a box' as an appeasement to the planning commission; and 3) they hired David Box to sit and take crap in one meeting then do exactly as they planned all along.

[Ross MacLochness]

sad..

[shawnw]

The most compelling thing I heard aside from what has already been stated was that the owner of the drum room said he had previously tried to buy the Donnay building but couldn't come to terms with the owners and that if Braum's would back off he would try again to buy/save the building.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^ That's good news, it would be great if they could work something out. However, it seems this group needs leadership. The only way to win this is for folks to act together, pool resources, and hire an attorney that knows how the city operates. Maybe they could hire David Box?? Oh f... wait... Passionate speeches serve no function at a zoning meeting.

[traxx]

I haven't been to Braum's in months except to buy milk or meat. Where can I go to buy milk and meat that I can trust to be hormone free? I've got a 9 year old daughter and feel like hormone infused meat and milk contribute to precocious puberty and so try to buy products free of that.

[Jersey Boss]

I haven't been to Braum's in months except to buy milk or meat. Where can I go to buy milk and meat that I can trust to be hormone free? I've got a 9 year old daughter and feel like hormone infused meat and milk contribute to precocious puberty and so try to buy products free of that.

Sprouts? I buy Horizon milk there that is hormone free. Don't know about the meat though.

[traxx]

Sprouts? I buy Horizon milk there that is hormone free. Don't know about the meat though.

Thanks

[Pete]

Site plan presented last night: