Friends for a Better Boulevard

[warreng88]

Fine. I'm not saying it has to be six lanes, all I am saying is it could be six lanes and still have amazing development.

I honestly don't remember that. That would be very questionable if the case, which I'm not doubting.

Here is the conversation I was talking about:

http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...levard-75.html

[OKVision4U]

No, if it wasn't, then it wouldn't be what we were led to believe it to be when the idea first came out about the boulevard. It is supposed to be a gateway to DT/BT to slow people down and get them to enjoy that area. If it is going to be six lanes and divided, we might as well call it the NW Expressway part two.

How do I know he hadn't done anything about it? I don't. But he has never said once that he contacted someone and what they said. I have written to Meg several times about the boulevard and several other items and have usually gotten a response back. If he has contacted someone, I would like to hear what he had to say and what they had to say in return.

Contrary to what you might think, I don't mind if people have differing views/opinions than I do. I encourage them because I feel everyone can learn something from someone. He does not respect anyone else's opinion and tries to shove all his beliefs down everyone else's throat. Even when confronted with the facts, he refuses to think that someone else may be right and he may be wrong. He even challenged Steve lackmeyer about the original MAPS being seamless.

warreng, this is Way off Topic, but I will address it. I still hold the position of Seamless from the Voters / Citizens POV. We voted with great expectations and we got what we were promised. Steve's position was in the "making sausage" area. When you / a person / Steve L is that close to a project / issue, it doesn't feel as "seamless". I was saying Steve L was too close to the trees. (done w/ that point ).

Yesterday, Steve L was saying that the Lumber Yard project was ONLY a rumor on a website. Based on his educated guess, it must be a rumor. Based on his sources, it must be a rumor. ..and i'm sure many would take his word at face value, and that would be an ok position for many.

I'm not that guy. I look at my experience & combine that with what Pete was saying and I can "see more merit" into this being more substance / than rumor. Does that make me wrong? ....No. We all have our sources and network of friends / industry insiders.

This is a Forum to discuss these opinions. ....beat up the issue. Kinda like making sausage. Get's a little messy too. LOL.

[OKVision4U]

The only segment that was delayed by discussion was between Western and Walker, given they way it was originally planed we are not loosing any money off that and may well be increasing the level of development worth doing between those streets, if done as a grid we are also raising the square footage of developable downtown property.

Yes, we did not need a "Highway 9 Norman or a Northwest Expressway" going through our new OKC Central Park & Convention Center. That had to be one of the dumbest ( Okie ) moves we have seen in a while. Yes, very glad this was stopped before any further damage could occur.

I want a thriving Central Park w/ 50 mid-rise buildings. ...I want Core to Shore to be ALL under-construction at the same time. I want OKC to be Crane City.

Just like the song says "Oklahoma City is mighty pretty." ...it's jobs, jobs, jobs.

[Teo9969]

Boulevard would be the PERFECT place to implement the Dutch bike lanes that Sid brought up awhile back.

[Plutonic Panda]

Boulevard would be the PERFECT place to implement the Dutch bike lanes that Sid brought up awhile back.

Yeah, that'd be pretty cool. At this rate, we just have to have to hope it doesn't become another limited access highway. :/

[Spartan]

Yes, we did not need a "Highway 9 Norman or a Northwest Expressway" going through our new OKC Central Park & Convention Center. That had to be one of the dumbest ( Okie ) moves we have seen in a while. Yes, very glad this was stopped before any further damage could occur.

I want a thriving Central Park w/ 50 mid-rise buildings. ...I want Core to Shore to be ALL under-construction at the same time. I want OKC to be Crane City.

Just like the song says "Oklahoma City is mighty pretty." ...it's jobs, jobs, jobs.

But downtown begins at Western, not Walker. That is what this fight is over now. The approach toward Western is already Highway 9 enough.

[warreng88]

There are so many holes in this, I don't know where to start.

warreng, this is Way off Topic, but I will address it. I still hold the position of Seamless from the Voters / Citizens POV.

So, the people who voted for/against in 1993 is where you hold the position. I am curious as to how old you where when this started and were you living in OKC. I was not so I didn't know what was happening. I was living in Tahlequah in 1993 and was in 8th grade so really the only thing I knew about OKC was that my grandfather lived here and we would come visit about five times a year and head back immediately after. I knew the state capital was here, that was about all I knew/cared about OKC when I was 14. Where were you and what were you doing when the vote happened? Again, this gives me an idea of what your understanding of the process was.

We voted with great expectations and we got what we were promised.

The first part of this statement is true, there were great expectations. The second part is as far from the truth as I can even imagine. The Oklahoma Spirit Trolleys were originally planned to be more of a streetcar type of thing and every single project came in over budget. There was a six month extension to raise all of the money because the estimates for the tax collections and the building estimates were off. So, we did not get what was promised. Was it worth it? Absolutely. If I were able to vote back then, I would have voted for them too, but to say it is seamless is literally the most incorrect use of the word that I can think of. Why don't you say, the juice was worth the squeeze or the proof is in the pudding.

Steve's position was in the "making sausage" area. When you / a person / Steve L is that close to a project / issue, it doesn't feel as "seamless". I was saying Steve L was too close to the trees. (done w/ that
point ).

Steve covered the projects back then. He knew what was going on, where the money was being spent, how it was going over budget, etc. It was being reported in the papers. If you say he was too close to the projects, what about my father in law? He voted against it when it came up because he never thought it would amount to anything. He still admits it (one of the very few). I talked to him about this and he said everything was over budget, not finished as promised, etc. I know if I asked him he would say the projects were anything but seamless. He was just a voter/citizen, so there is your POV from someone who lived through it.

[OKVision4U]

There are so many holes in this, I don't know where to start.



So, the people who voted for/against in 1993 is where you hold the position. I am curious as to how old you where when this started and were you living in OKC. I was not so I didn't know what was happening. I was living in Tahlequah in 1993 and was in 8th grade so really the only thing I knew about OKC was that my grandfather lived here and we would come visit about five times a year and head back immediately after. I knew the state capital was here, that was about all I knew/cared about OKC when I was 14. Where were you and what were you doing when the vote happened? Again, this gives me an idea of what your understanding of the process was.



The first part of this statement is true, there were great expectations. The second part is as far from the truth as I can even imagine. The Oklahoma Spirit Trolleys were originally planned to be more of a streetcar type of thing and every single project came in over budget. There was a six month extension to raise all of the money because the estimates for the tax collections and the building estimates were off. So, we did not get what was promised. Was it worth it? Absolutely. If I were able to vote back then, I would have voted for them too, but to say it is seamless is literally the most incorrect use of the word that I can think of. Why don't you say, the juice was worth the squeeze or the proof is in the pudding.



Steve covered the projects back then. He knew what was going on, where the money was being spent, how it was going over budget, etc. It was being reported in the papers. If you say he was too close to the projects, what about my father in law? He voted against it when it came up because he never thought it would amount to anything. He still admits it (one of the very few). I talked to him about this and he said everything was over budget, not finished as promised, etc. I know if I asked him he would say the projects were anything but seamless. He was just a voter/citizen, so there is your POV from someone who lived through it.

You said you didn't know what was happening in OKC because you were in 8th grade in Tahlequah? ...like I said, Seamless for the 90% that did vote for it. It was SO successful, we even voted yes for kids on MAPSII.... ....and MAPSIII too.

I stand on my position.

[SoonerDave]

So I see OKVis has decided to try hijacking another thread. Goodie.

[OKVision4U]

So I see OKVis has decided to try hijacking another thread. Goodie.

SD, what are you doing on this thread, this is not about a burger.

[Plutonic Panda]

SD, what are you doing on this thread, this is not about a burger.

I don't get it.

[venture]

I don't get it.

Probably referencing the Braums thread that went wonky.

[MustangGT]

But downtown begins at Western, not Walker. That is what this fight is over now. The approach toward Western is already Highway 9 enough.

It is pretty apparent that this battle has already been decided and continuing to fight it only reduces the credibility of those fighting to keep it alive. Sometimes the smart play is to accept your losses and move on.

[warreng88]

I feel like when we first saw the renderings of the boulevard, the west end was supposed to look like that, it was the area east of Western to BT that would be more pedestrian friendly. Am I wrong on this?

[shawnw]

Is this where were's putting Boulevard development news/info? So hard to tell anymore.

Anyway, found out the hard way tonight trying to escape Bricktown traffic that Compress by the lumber yard is now closed. There was a lot of construction equipment and a huge mound of dirt, right about where the boulevard would go. It was dark and I couldn't see over the mount of dirt, but I suspect they're starting to go under the viaduct...

[Spartan]

It is pretty apparent that this battle has already been decided and continuing to fight it only reduces the credibility of those fighting to keep it alive. Sometimes the smart play is to accept your losses and move on.

I'm sorry but what would you know about credibility? I don't think you and pro-urban individuals are ever going to agree on that so it's best not to act like an expert on "credibility" ... Thus you lose your credibility

[Plutonic Panda]

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix

[shawnw]

I like it but I think it's wider than the old I-40 was so I'm not sure it would work ROW wise (not sure how much "slack" there is), but I don't know how that works for sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

[venture]

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix

Who are you and what did you do with PluPan?

[venture]

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

What is this Oklahoma River you speak of? I only know of the North Canadian.

[Plutonic Panda]

Who are you and what did you do with PluPan?

He's at the secret underground convention in Dallas that's plotting to widen I-35 to 37 lanes

[Plutonic Panda]

I like it but I think it's wider than the old I-40 was so I'm not sure it would work ROW wise (not sure how much "slack" there is), but I don't know how that works for sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

Yeah, I was wondering if there would be 120ft. to work with... seems like it might a bit too wide.

On edit: according to Snowmans post it isn't too wide which is good.

[Snowman]

I like it but I think it's wider than the old I-40 was so I'm not sure it would work ROW wise (not sure how much "slack" there is), but I don't know how that works for sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

The old i40 had over 200 feet of right of way the entire way, closer to 250 feet in parts, this is using 120 feet of that. It is easy to forget that i40's lanes were all much wider than these lanes, it had between a couple to several feet of concrete on both sides of the road per direction, the merge zones and ramp flare out flanking the through lanes used a lot of space too.

[shawnw]

Ah, thanks for the details, wasn't sure the total width of the ROW.

[CuatrodeMayo]

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix

like