Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[chssooner]

I feel like the quicker we can build the additional reservoirs, the better it will be for us in the long run. We can't wait until we have a crisis to start the process.

They are NOT cheap, and it would be hard to justify an expense of that magnitude right now, in my opinion.

[Urbanized]

For Powell and Mead, the biggest user is ag. Residences and Commercial are drops in the bucket here. Commercial spaces like those Vegas Strip hotels cycle the water in those fountains and do all sorts of things to help conserve. Residences can apply low flow, pull out grass, etc. They can really make an impact with little effort.

But what do you do about ag? We can't just cut them off, they feed the country. You can't bury pipes to avoid using sprinkler (which waste most of what they spray) because you'll just plow it up in 6 months. To be honest, if you're looking for a good way to solve this problem, we need a viable commercial solution to watering crops with drip irrigation that is moveable. Think a massive soaker hose that can be automatically deployed and retracted easily and cheaply.

And to be honest, farms that grow things like Almonds that eat up an insane amount of water, would be affected by consumer demand. So you personally have a part in the crisis no matter where you live. If you want to have almonds and whatever outside of the growing season and regardless of the impact, then you're paying for it in this way. Those farmers could pivot (although it would not be cheap) to another crop, hopefully one that is not so water thirsty.

But we can't just point our fingers at the California ag and say "its your fault" because we put it there and we're now dependent on it. With the climate change we have that also doesn't seem to be going anywhere, it's time to re-think everything.

Interesting post. It all tracks. And of course (for instance) almond production is incentivized by people abandoning flatulent dairy cattle in favor of almond milk. Makes them feel better about themselves, and who doesn’t want that? Almond butter as a replacement for peanut butter, moving the water consumption ever so slightly west with every jar sold. A percentage point west, maybe, over time. Avocados replacing French Fries because…they’re a superfood and…nowadays we like superfoods. Ever seen how much water it takes to grow an avocado? Never mind, we love it. We saw it on Instagram.

The law of unintended consequences. EVERYTHING WE DO has consequences.

[PaddyShack]

Interesting post. It all tracks. And of course (for instance) almond production is incentivized by people abandoning flatulent dairy cattle in favor of almond milk. Makes them feel better about themselves, and who doesn’t want that? Almond butter as a replacement for peanut butter, moving the water consumption ever so slightly west with every jar sold. A percentage point west, maybe, over time. Avocados replacing French Fries because…they’re a superfood and…nowadays we like superfoods. Ever seen how much water it takes to grow an avocado? Never mind, we love it. We saw it on Instagram.

The law of unintended consequences. EVERYTHING WE DO has consequences.

Reminds me of that show 'The Good Place', haha.

[GaryOKC6]

there is a huge aquifer that feeds Draper lake which is why it is full. The city is building a huge pipeline that will transfer water to the Hefner and Overholser.

[Ward]

Hefner should be made deeper.

The North end, at the dam, is deep, but the South end is very shallow. I used to get my sailboat stuck on sandbars on the south end, had to jump out and into the water, and I'd be maybe chest deep.

[GaryOKC6]

Hefner should be made deeper.

The North end, at the dam, is deep, but the South end is very shallow. I used to get my sailboat stuck on sandbars on the south end, had to jump out and into the water, and I'd be maybe chest deep.

I often wondered why they don't dredge some of the shallow areas when the lake is so low. They could vastly increase the capacity.

[chssooner]

I often wondered why they don't dredge some of the shallow areas when the lake is so low. They could vastly increase the capacity.

It hasn't been anywhere near anything considered "low" in almost 6 years.

[Martin]

i'd have to think that there are challenges in dredging a reservoir that is actively used for drinking water as it would stir up tons of sediment. i think overholser has been dredged in the past, but given its smaller size i'd think it could be temporarily removed from the water system as the particulates settle out... i'm not sure that could be done with hefner.

[Bill Robertson]

i'd have to think that there are challenges in dredging a reservoir that is actively used for drinking water as it would stir up tons of sediment. i think overholser has been dredged in the past, but given its smaller size i'd think it could be temporarily removed from the water system as the particulates settle out... i'm not sure that could be done with hefner.

I was a active member of the Lake Hefner Boat Owners Assn for many years. We pushed for dredging out the shallow areas many times. The sediment both contaminating the water and fouling the pumps and equipment were the reasons the city said they'd never do it.

[gopokes88]

Interesting post. It all tracks. And of course (for instance) almond production is incentivized by people abandoning flatulent dairy cattle in favor of almond milk. Makes them feel better about themselves, and who doesn’t want that? Almond butter as a replacement for peanut butter, moving the water consumption ever so slightly west with every jar sold. A percentage point west, maybe, over time. Avocados replacing French Fries because…they’re a superfood and…nowadays we like superfoods. Ever seen how much water it takes to grow an avocado? Never mind, we love it. We saw it on Instagram.

The law of unintended consequences. EVERYTHING WE DO has consequences.

a certain segment of the electorate fundamentally doesn't believe in trade offs. it's always zero sum.
green energy = always good.
O&G = always bad.
almond milk = always good
cows = always bad.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Nuance and perspective are completely lost in today's world. Especially in the U.S..

[mkjeeves]

So, apparently this happened…OKC requested water from Lake Canton, the gates were opened, then closed until further review.

TULSA, Okla. – Water releases from Canton Lake requested by the City of Oklahoma City for water supply began Aug. 3rd but were soon halted because of administrative issues outside of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Tulsa District authority.

There is a high degree of public interest in the Canton Lake pool and the City of Oklahoma City’s right to withdraw water. Because of this the Canton Lake Advisory Committee comprised of the Oklahoma Water Resources Board, the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, the Canton Lake Association and the Tulsa District USACE, determined to review the request for withdrawal procedures.

The last significant City of Oklahoma City request was in 2013 and since that time most key personnel involved are new to the process. The Advisory Committee will meet during the week of Aug. 8 – 12, 2022 to confirm procedure and request routing. Once all parties are comfortable, the City of Oklahoma City will resubmit the request for withdrawal.

The Tulsa District USACE and the City of Oklahoma City work together to meet water supply needs. USACE began releasing 10,500 acre-feet of water from Canton Lake into the North Canadian River Aug. 3, 2022. If the releases had continued, the water would have been captured in Lakes Hefner and Overholser. The release had been planned last for 12-14 days and would have lowered the Canton Lake pool by about 1-foot with minimal impact to recreation.

Water supply is one of Canton Lake’s authorized purposes that must be balanced with other purposes in the system of reservoirs. Other purposes include water storage for hydropower, flood risk management, water quality and recreation.

In times of drought, meeting drinking water supply needs is a primary purpose. The Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust has used water from Canton Lake since the 1950s. Water utility officials meet with representatives from the Oklahoma Water Resources Board, Canton Lake representatives, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, and the US Army Corps of Engineers to carefully plan all water releases so they are conducted in the best interest of both lakes and to replenish drinking water supply.

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/426654...K8rr_cdOf8tCYw

[Pete]

The cities need to do a better job of enforcing lawn watering restrictions.

Almost nobody pays any attention the mandatory even/odd conservation plan that is now in place. The same plan is in effect in OKC, Edmond, Norman, Yukon, Mustang and Deer Creek.

In times of drought, meeting drinking water supply needs is a primary purpose.

We are not low on water because people are drinking it.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^^ I’ve read that watering residential or commercial lawns makes up a very small amount of the overall water usage and they agricultural is the main culprit.

[mkjeeves]

The cities need to do a better job of enforcing lawn watering restrictions.

Almost nobody pays any attention the mandatory even/odd conservation plan that is now in place. The same plan is in effect in OKC, Edmond, Norman, Yukon, Mustang and Deer Creek.

Is this your observation or from study by others? I’m on my 4th sprinkler controller that has the feature built in to the programming and I use it. I swapped out the first one because it did not.

(Controllers over the last few years, swapped to add odd even capability, added zones, replaced with smart Wi-Fi and weather watch, added a master valve.)

[Pete]

Is this your observation or from study by others? I’m on the 4th or 5th sprinkler controller that has the feature built in to the programming and I use it. I swapped out the first one because it did not.

Observation. I walk every early morning past hundreds of houses and I see many/most not following the mandate.

[Bill Robertson]

Observation. I walk every early morning past hundreds of houses and I see many/most not following the mandate.

Me too. I went grocery shopping about 9 yesterday morning. I passed a half dozen odd numbered houses watering on an even day. But only one was an automatic system. The rest were hose and sprinklers.

[bucktalk]

Observation. I walk every early morning past hundreds of houses and I see many/most not following the mandate.

Even more aggravating is to see how many lawn sprinklers run during the intense heat of the afternoon...ugh! Most of the water they are using disappears due to evaporation. Recently, while driving on north May near Rose Creek, there were many running their sprinklers at 3:30 in the afternoon. Such a ridiculous waste of water!!

[brunnesa]

Even more aggravating is to see how many lawn sprinklers run during the intense heat of the afternoon...ugh! Most of the water they are using disappears due to evaporation. Recently, while driving on north May near Rose Creek, there were many running their sprinklers at 3:30 in the afternoon. Such a ridiculous waste of water!!

Actually running your sprinklers for a very short time during the heat of the day has a nice cooling effect for the turf. I don’t condone watering a lot during this time of day, but in short instances it will reduce stress on the turf.

[catch22]

I say this as someone who does have a nice green suburban lawn (had a very mature yard when I purchased the house that I have kept up) — it’s time to significantly change the idea of a green lawn. In many parts of the county, including Oklahoma it is just not natural.

Every year I let more and more of my yard die and replace with rocks. I live in a semi-desert environment and it takes a lot of effort to keep the grass green. I have reduced my grass by about 50% over the last 3 years replacing with rocks. This winter I am going to let my backyard completely die as it struggles the most. I will replace some of the area with artificial turf so my dogs have something natural-ish. But I will fill most of it in with rock. This will reduce my yard by another 50% for a total reduction of 75% or so from when I purchased. In the front lawn I have a few areas I will let die also and replace with rock. The remaining area will be a small well shaded area that requires very little water to maintain.

Yards just consume so many resources for what is largely just a vanity thing.

[Pete]

Big, always green lawns are very much an American thing. It's not only the massive amount of water being dumped every day, it's also all the fertilizers and pesticides that do all sorts of harm.

Everywhere else not only do you have smaller lot sizes, but you have more natural landscaping and growth supported only by natural rainfall.


Great podcast episode from Freakanomics:

Every square foot of turf grass requires 28 gallons of water per year.

How Stupid is Our Obsession With Lawns?

[Mott]

Big, always green lawns are very much an American thing. It's not only the massive amount of water being dumped every day, it's also all the fertilizers and pesticides that do all sorts of harm.

Everywhere else not only do you have smaller lot sizes, but you have more natural landscaping and growth supported only by natural rainfall.


Great podcast episode from Freakanomics:



How Stupid is Our Obsession With Lawns?

Visit Lawrence KS a lot, really nice food culture. The older east side (of Massachusetts Street), is a neighborhood of non grass landscaping. Really very nice change from grass lawns being pounded with synthetic fertilizer, and weed killers. But in the led up to the Abortion Bill, didn’t see one yes vote, only no signs, so could lawn gardening be political?

[Plutonic Panda]

Lawn watering only accounts for 3.5 to 5% of water use in California. That wouldn’t change anything if we were ever in a dire situation where water wouldn’t come out of our faucets. This thing about wanting to end the tradition of having large green lawns will help the environment about as much as banning plastic straws. Just more meaningless moves so politicians can look like they’re doing something.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/UrbanHort/Wa...sharebar=share

[Pete]

Lawn watering only accounts for 3.5 to 5% of water use in California. That wouldn’t change anything if we were ever in a dire situation where water wouldn’t come out of our faucets. This thing about wanting to end the tradition of having large green lawns will help the environment about as much as banning plastic straws. Just more meaningless moves so politicians can look like they’re doing something.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/UrbanHort/Wa...sharebar=share

We're not talking about California. And believe me, long before you were ever there, tons of measures were taken to reduce household water consumption, including spending millions on incentives toward getting homeowners to switch to low-water yards and landscaping. And, of course, every bit of agriculture in California -- of which there is absolute tons -- is done through irrigation. California is in no way comparable to Oklahoma.

In and around OKC, we're in a serious drought, trying to transfer water from other reservoirs, and of course the majority is being poured onto grass. Where else would it be going? Drinking fountains?

[mugofbeer]

We're not talking about California. And believe me, long before you were ever there, tons of measures were taken to reduce household water consumption, including spending millions on incentives toward getting homeowners to switch to low-water yards and landscaping. And, of course, every bit of agriculture in California -- of which there is absolute tons -- is done through irrigation. California is in no way comparable to Oklahoma.

In and around OKC, we're in a serious drought, trying to transfer water from other reservoirs, and of course the majority is being poured onto grass. Where else would it be going? Drinking fountains?

Showers, baths and toilets, gardens, business and industrial uses, pools, laundry, dishwashers and l'm sure others l haven't thought of. In Oklahoma's part of the country, water transfers from places with excess water only makes sense. But watering restrictions and enforcement should be the norm during dry times.