Will Rogers World Airport

[catch22]

One must also consider the legality and/or appearance of offering a direct subsidy to a foreign business with taxpayer money.

[gopokes88]

Well let's hear it then. Many other airlines could profitably fly OKC-YVR or OKC-YYZ? Oh really? Which ones? WestJet? Flair? Lynx? Seriously? And so what that you didn't say Air Canada? Again, why don't you tell us which airline could logically fly OKC-YYZ/YVR profitably? You're saying that an airline other than Canada's largest airline would be a better choice for those routes if they ever came to fruition?

Just because I'm realistic in no way means I'm thinking small. I do my part to support air service here. I'd love for nothing more than for OKC air service to grow and thrive. But how about we be just a little bit realistic too.

You should quit reading after

"wichita will pass OKC"

[Jersey Boss]

One must also consider the legality and/or appearance of offering a direct subsidy to a foreign business with taxpayer money.

Panasonic?

[catch22]

Panasonic?

Aviation is a little bit more complicated than that type of deal, which would likely be structured anyway to directly subsidize a US based division. The airplanes would be operated by a foreign entity, based in a foreign land, and profits go directly to a foreign entity. There is no USA division of Air Canada.

[no1cub17]

You should quit reading after

"wichita will pass OKC"

Haha right? Watch, now AC will swoop in and start ICT-YYZ/YVR just to troll us. Having said that, Whistler is truly one of our most favorite places, so we'd definitely consider driving up to ICT if they had nonstops to YVR!

[HOT ROD]

Well let's hear it then. Many other airlines could profitably fly OKC-YVR or OKC-YYZ? Oh really? Which ones? WestJet? Flair? Lynx? Seriously? And so what that you didn't say Air Canada? Again, why don't you tell us which airline could logically fly OKC-YYZ/YVR profitably? You're saying that an airline other than Canada's largest airline would be a better choice for those routes if they ever came to fruition?

Just because I'm realistic in no way means I'm thinking small. I do my part to support air service here. I'd love for nothing more than for OKC air service to grow and thrive. But how about we be just a little bit realistic too.

If I had the pro-formas then I would probably be working for an airline rather than a major IT company. And I was being facetious about ICT passing OKC - however, it is the only major airport in its state - so the thought of an OMA situation isn't that far removed. BTW - OMA does have better service than OKC; so that was my point.

And BTW, this is a chat forum so if you don't like what I say then you can ignore or comment without trying to insult or push me to insult you. I made a nice point about OKC stepping up its game and after refilling the major US cities it should consider MEX and CA as International options even if it meant a temporary subsidy. Not sure what's wrong with that or why you make a hissy fit on me providing anything more than MY OPINION to an OKC Forum.

International travel options provide cache to cities, OKC lacks in that department. But imagine if the state or city could bring up their flight options to a Panasonic next time, perhaps we would land that facility since all businesses (including my company) need air service (which BTW there are daily non-stops SEA-OKC - which prior to the mid-2010s was a far flung idea too if I remember correctly).

[catch22]

Kansas City has a major airport, and while not technically in the state it is for all intents and purposes a factor for the eastern half of Kansas. Kansas also has, for now, service across the state with Dodge City, Liberal, Hays, Manhattan, and Salina all having commercial air service. This erodes away at Wichita’s catchment area.

Flight options have nothing to do with hopes and dreams. Butts in seats and dollars in the spreadsheet are the only thing that matter to an airline. Fill their planes and print them money, the service will follow. Subsidies can get a route going but they should not be relied upon, and if the service isn’t meeting financial expectations they will drop it the moment the subsidy ends.

[Richard at Remax]

Are there any routes of of OKC that are being subsidized?

[catch22]

No. OKC does not offer any cash subsidies, but rather does offer incentives in the form of reduced landing fees, marketing assistance (a direct check to Ackerman McQueen), and/or reduced rent for routes that qualify.

[PhiAlpha]

Come on - you really expect that OKC could get up to 1m+ pax/year in connections? Huh? OKC is a spoke, not a hub. Our priority should be getting (re)-connected to all of the major domestic hubs. For example DL has dropped DTW, AA has dropped PHL and apparently is going to drop MIA? Yikes that's bad.

And let's be serious here, no airline (especially not Air Canada) is going to start weekly service to OKC from any of their Canadian hubs. What business sense would a weekly service make? Zero. Plus, OKC's population probably just isn't diverse enough; it's not like AC thinks they're going to be connecting passengers on OKC-YYZ-India routes or anything like that. Anyone flying internationally out of OKC is more than adequately served by connections through DFW, ORD, LAX, etc.

Yeah I think if we got anything international, it would much more likely be seasonally to Mexico or some other popular vacation/resort destination. There was a time when Calgary potentially had enough traffic to OKC for oil and gas type traffic but that time has passed in all likelihood (if it ever existed in the first place).

[catch22]

Agreed.

It will be interesting if the proposed Transborder Joint Venture proposed in the past week by Air Canada and United will spur any growth to new markets, if approved. Basically reduced capacity in markets where there is overlap freeing up airplane time for Air Canada to attempt some other routes in the US. Any new routes would not be part of the joint venture.

[Richard at Remax]

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblu...kely-marriage/

[gopokes88]

Would have been way better for OKC if it was Frontier and Spirit.

[shawnw]

No. OKC does not offer any cash subsidies, but rather does offer incentives in the form of reduced landing fees, marketing assistance (a direct check to Ackerman McQueen), and/or reduced rent for routes that qualify.

I do wish we'd do subsidies to ensure we always have good LA/NY/SF/CHI/DC connections no matter what the airlines were doing.

[no1cub17]

If I had the pro-formas then I would probably be working for an airline rather than a major IT company. And I was being facetious about ICT passing OKC - however, it is the only major airport in its state - so the thought of an OMA situation isn't that far removed. BTW - OMA does have better service than OKC; so that was my point.

And BTW, this is a chat forum so if you don't like what I say then you can ignore or comment without trying to insult or push me to insult you. I made a nice point about OKC stepping up its game and after refilling the major US cities it should consider MEX and CA as International options even if it meant a temporary subsidy. Not sure what's wrong with that or why you make a hissy fit on me providing anything more than MY OPINION to an OKC Forum.

International travel options provide cache to cities, OKC lacks in that department. But imagine if the state or city could bring up their flight options to a Panasonic next time, perhaps we would land that facility since all businesses (including my company) need air service (which BTW there are daily non-stops SEA-OKC - which prior to the mid-2010s was a far flung idea too if I remember correctly).

Oh come on. I never insulted you, nor did I push you to insult me. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as insulting them.

And you have it backwards IMO - international flights are largely driven by demand for them. Airlines don't start international flights hoping to stimulate demand, they start them because the demand is there. Emirates isn't about to set up shop in OKC hoping that people here will all of a sudden want to fly to the Middle East or Asia in large numbers (extreme example but my point stands).

[no1cub17]

Would have been way better for OKC if it was Frontier and Spirit.

Right? What a bizarre move by B6. I get that they want/need to expand and need planes and crews, but this merger just makes them stronger in ... New York and Florida? Whatevs.

[BG918]

Yeah I think if we got anything international, it would much more likely be seasonally to Mexico or some other popular vacation/resort destination. There was a time when Calgary potentially had enough traffic to OKC for oil and gas type traffic but that time has passed in all likelihood (if it ever existed in the first place).

It seems like Frontier could fill an OKC-Cancun nonstop once a week. Am I dreaming or did an airline use to fly that route but had to stop in Dallas on the way back due to OKC not having an FIS (immigration facility)? There is one now, not sure if it's fully built-out yet though.

[HOT ROD]

yep, and I believe it was Sun Country Airlines.

No reason why it couldn't be done again, this time without the stop in TX on the way down and once a week sounds about right to start.

Also, I didn't say we should subsidize forever, I specifically said to start as an incentive. International travel potential is there, right now it funnels through DFW. It'll be up to OKC to figure out what they can and can't do and we're not talking about daily non-stops, but 'something' where the numbers might work is a valid portfolio point we can trump and tell businesses when discussing OKC's flight options on potential recruitment/relocation visits.

[catch22]

Champion Air ran their 727’s OKC-PVR/CUN. And CUN/PVR-DFW-OKC back in the early 2000’s.

PLANET AIR also was around too, in the early 2000’s. Those airlines didn’t directly sell the flights, they were public charters put together by a consortium of travel agencies. That’s why some years it was Planet, and some years it was Champion.

When oil did its thing in 2007 both those airlines filed for bankruptcy. I don’t think anyone ever tried to get those charters back.

Apple Vacations (not affiliated with the tech company) does handle a ton of Mexico vacation packages from various Midwest mid-small cities. They were chartering with ATA,, Midwest, as well as USA3000. Of course all 3 of those airlines are gone. Apple then started using Frontier, but frontier has moved out of the charter business as far as I know. I am not sure who Apple is using now, probably Sun Country. I think Allegiant was trying to buy out Apple Vacations at some point and just roll them into their pre-packaged vacations. Not sure whatever happened to it as I don’t follow the charter side of things very closely.

[unfundedrick]

Champion Air ran their 727’s OKC-PVR/CUN. And CUN/PVR-DFW-OKC back in the early 2000’s.

PLANET AIR also was around too, in the early 2000’s. Those airlines didn’t directly sell the flights, they were public charters put together by a consortium of travel agencies. That’s why some years it was Planet, and some years it was Champion.

When oil did its thing in 2007 both those airlines filed for bankruptcy. I don’t think anyone ever tried to get those charters back.

Apple Vacations (not affiliated with the tech company) does handle a ton of Mexico vacation packages from various Midwest mid-small cities. They were chartering with ATA,, Midwest, as well as USA3000. Of course all 3 of those airlines are gone. Apple then started using Frontier, but frontier has moved out of the charter business as far as I know. I am not sure who Apple is using now, probably Sun Country. I think Allegiant was trying to buy out Apple Vacations at some point and just roll them into their pre-packaged vacations. Not sure whatever happened to it as I don’t follow the charter side of things very closely.

Apple Leisure Group (ALG) is using a combination of Sun Country, Frontier, and Spirit. Hyatt bought the ALG last year so a purchase by Allegiant won't happen.

[catch22]

Apple Leisure Group (ALG) is using a combination of Sun Country, Frontier, and Spirit. Hyatt bought the ALG last year so a purchase by Allegiant won't happen.

Good to know thanks.

[Zorba]

I wonder what would be the real number of passengers of some airports without their connecting passengers.
Obviously, OKC has no connecting passengers ( or marginal) so its people going through the terminal doors.

In august we will lose the AA service to Miami, the Breeze one to Tampa. Not good news.

For international development, Cancun and Mexico City will be a top priority. Maybe Toronto can happen.

I'm not finding it right now. But BTS does have a product that shows O&D verse all enplanements. All the major hub airports still dwarf OKC in O&D traffic. Even lowly SLC and CVT beat OKC in O&D traffic by quite a bit.

[PaddyShack]

The family and I took an opportunity to drop my mother off at the airport Friday afternoon to look at the new area. We really enjoyed the new space and my son really loved the "observation deck". However, for me now I wish it wrapped around the whole terminal building, A lot of the ground ops and the majority of 17R/35L is out of view. But it is nice to have an area to wait around in that is not behind the security line.

[HOT ROD]

when will they get around to updating the website? The new terminal and concourse have been complete and open for (what?) over a year now yet the website does not reflect this and is ridiculously out-dated.

come on OKC.

[Snowman]

when will they get around to updating the website? The new terminal and concourse have been complete and open for (what?) over a year now yet the website does not reflect this and is ridiculously out-dated.

come on OKC.

I had gotten the impression that at least in the past they did not have permanent developers for their site, so anything more than basic edits or file uploads that can be done with whatever content management the site is designed around waits till they decide it need an overhaul, then contract that out.