Wheeler District

[Pete]

There are staring on the office building just south of the old terminal; also installing playground equipment.

[AP]

New homes being marketed.



I'm not sure why it shows so small, but click to expand.

I'm still waiting for Wheeler to fulfill their talk of a mixed-income neighborhood. Maybe then they could truthfully market as Oklahoma's Next Great Urban Neighborhood.

[5alive]

I like that many of these houses are vertical...this will make for a densely populated area

[Southsider2]

I passed by today and they had wood framing up north of the brewery. I believe it may be the Spoke St homes

[Ronnie Jackson]

New homes being marketed.



I'm not sure why it shows so small, but click to expand.

I'm still waiting for Wheeler to fulfill their talk of a mixed-income neighborhood. Maybe then they could truthfully market as Oklahoma's Next Great Urban Neighborhood.

Yeah, that’s not ever going to happen. These folks aren’t paying $250/foot to be next door to someone who paid $130/foot.

They might build a handful of smaller properties, but those will be priced well above $250/foot.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, that’s not ever going to happen. These folks aren’t paying $250/foot to be next door to someone who paid $130/foot.

They might build a handful of smaller properties, but those will be priced well above $250/foot.

I imagine this will happen when the density increases per unit closer to the ferris wheel. I assume at some point they'll sell 750 to 1250 square foot flats for closer to $150/sq ft. both of which are under $200k.

And if they never get to where they are selling flats, then they will have pretty well missed their intended aim. To me, there's a reason they started with such a major gap between the river and current housing and it's because they needed to recoup some amount of funds to keep the project moving forward, build out some land and get bodies down there and particularly bodies who would be substantially invested long-term so that they can have a solid base to work from.

But we'll see.

[BoulderSooner]

I imagine this will happen when the density increases per unit closer to the ferris wheel. I assume at some point they'll sell 750 to 1250 square foot flats for closer to $150/sq ft. both of which are under $200k.

And if they never get to where they are selling flats, then they will have pretty well missed their intended aim. To me, there's a reason they started with such a major gap between the river and current housing and it's because they needed to recoup some amount of funds to keep the project moving forward, build out some land and get bodies down there and particularly bodies who would be substantially invested long-term so that they can have a solid base to work from.

But we'll see.

there is very little chance they ever sell anything for 150 a sqft

[Pete]

They have already built and sold 16 of this type of homes on the south side of development.

They all went for over $200/SF and prices are only going up.

[AP]

And if they never get to where they are selling flats, then they will have pretty well missed their intended aim.

This was my point. They have publically said they wanted this to be a diverse, mixed-income neighborhood. There are definitely some things they could cut out to get the price-point lower and create more access. I think they just don't want to and want the entire thing to be as upscale as possible. Which is fine. But, again, not what they originally said and marketed. My inclination is the mixed-income part of this will be fulfilled by apartments. Which leaves out a pretty solid portion of people who spend 200k-350k on a home. The most affordable home they've sold are the houses on pedaler's lane, which are all less than 1000 sq/ft.

Maybe I'm just salty because I really wanted to live here and had high hopes. For the house my family requires, it would cost enough where I would just choose Crown Heights or something similar in the same price range in an established historic neighborhood.

[Richard at Remax]

Spend your money elsewhere. Check back in a years or so when one of these original owners sells. One of the best deals in real estate, for a buyer, is to be the 2nd owner of a new build that's less than a few years old.

[BoulderSooner]

Spend your money elsewhere. Check back in a years or so when one of these original owners sells. One of the best deals in real estate, for a buyer, is to be the 2nd owner of a new build that's less than a few years old.

that applies to the burbs i doubt it will apply to this neighborhood

[Richard at Remax]

If one of the original owners in there decided to sell right now, do you think they would get more or less than they originally paid for it with all the new construction going on? I know there is an existing for sale now that sold last year that is selling more than what they paid for it but that is someone associated with the builder who finished it out while they lived there.

[BoulderSooner]

If one of the original owners in there decided to sell right now, do you think they would get more or less than they originally paid for it with all the new construction going on? I know there is an existing for sale now that sold last year that is selling more than what they paid for it but that is someone associated with the builder who finished it out while they lived there.

they would get more because the new construction going in now is selling for more per sqft then when they bought a year ago

[Richard at Remax]

That's not really how it works but it's ok to disagree. The problem is most people will pay a premium for brand new vs existing in the same neighborhood. Even if there is a few years difference. so while yours might look more attractive price wise, going against the new competition is tough. so you have to lower it to really get someone's attention to show the value. I've had 2 listings like that and we always got beat out by new construction down the street. It was terrible.

I think the novelty for this is going to wear off sooner than later. I could be wrong about wheeler but I just can't see them sustaining these prices for the long haul. I've said my peace about this development and it has held true. Take all that subsidy money ($180 million?) to promise wide range of housing. I think they said 20% would be affordable.https://oklahoman.com/article/553691...eeler-district What it's done is taken a ton of money and build homes that most citizens can't afford. Kind of a shame really.

[BoulderSooner]

That's not really how it works but it's ok to disagree. The problem is most people will pay a premium for brand new vs existing in the same neighborhood. Even if there is a few years difference. so while yours might look more attractive price wise, going against the new competition is tough. so you have to lower it to really get someone's attention to show the value. I've had 2 listings like that and we always got beat out by new construction down the street. It was terrible.

I think the novelty for this is going to wear off sooner than later. I could be wrong about wheeler but I just can't see them sustaining these prices for the long haul. I've said my peace about this development and it has held true. Take all that subsidy money ($180 million?) to promise wide range of housing. I think they said 20% would be affordable.https://oklahoman.com/article/553691...eeler-district What it's done is taken a ton of money and build homes that most citizens can't afford. Kind of a shame really.

? in your example where any of those downtown (or close to down town) or in any way urban?

[shawnw]

can't see them sustaining these prices for the long haul

I know zilch about real estate, but we've been saying this for years now (a decade maybe) about downtown prices and it has not let up and shows no signs of such.

[Richard at Remax]

That's hard right now cause all the new construction in the core doesn't have any in that specific development for sale while some are still being constructed. Wheeler is the only one that has the possibility because it's still ongoing. All the other core projects are finished. Bower, 701 Hudson, Civic, ect. The Hill, Block 42, Brownstones, Mayfield, haven't really apprecaited a worthy amount. The one that across the board that seems to have appreciated the most are the units in the Centennial.

Here are a few from a quick search. there are some that have lost value over the years and just I'm positive there are some that have made money in that time too. Was it enough money to cover costs associated with selling, all the hoa dues combined over the years, ect? I dunno. If you break even downtown that's a big win.
249 NE 4TH ST. Block 42. Sold in 2008 for $676K. Bought in 2015 for $635K. For Sale now for $624K. 384 days on market.
444 N CENTRAL AVE UNIT 305. $405K in 2012. $380 in April 2020.
200 SOuth OKlahoma 301 (unit I sold) bought in 2009 for $319K, sold in 2018 for $375K.
200 S Oklahoma 308, bought in 2015 for $225. Under Contract for $470K (although that might not be purchase price)

[BoulderSooner]

by friends place at the hill is worth well over 100k more then he bought it for .. the Hill is also still be constructed ..

hoa dues ?? what are you talking about ... those are not part of cost basis when you sell ..

[GoGators]

That's not really how it works but it's ok to disagree. The problem is most people will pay a premium for brand new vs existing in the same neighborhood. Even if there is a few years difference. so while yours might look more attractive price wise, going against the new competition is tough. so you have to lower it to really get someone's attention to show the value. I've had 2 listings like that and we always got beat out by new construction down the street. It was terrible.

I think the novelty for this is going to wear off sooner than later. I could be wrong about wheeler but I just can't see them sustaining these prices for the long haul. I've said my peace about this development and it has held true. Take all that subsidy money ($180 million?) to promise wide range of housing. I think they said 20% would be affordable.https://oklahoman.com/article/553691...eeler-district What it's done is taken a ton of money and build homes that most citizens can't afford. Kind of a shame really.

This is true for suburban development. However, I would argue that for these urban developments, new construction adds value to the existing homes.

[Richard at Remax]

Like I said. There are probably some that made money. and yes you are right about Hill still building.

I understand HOA dues aren't part of the equation for the vast majority of sellers. However, at the Hill when some dues are $4000-7000/year, on top of property taxes in that same range, it might look like you made $100K on paper, but did you really?

as for the Hill, here are "newer" Existing Homes (built in 2015+) vs New Construction sold Data in last 2 years.

Existing
One for sale (built in 2016 and bought for $600K) at $620K at $294/ft. Been on market for 4 days.
Two sold (built in 2015 and 2017) for an average price of $625K at $282/ft with average days on market of 134. One home appreciated $25K from when they bought it new, one depreciated $25K from when they bought it new.

New Construction
4 active. average price $747.5K at $307.33/ft with an average days on market for 353 days.
8 have sold for average price of $735K at $302/ft with an average days on market of 73 (3-311)

So just by looking at the Hill the "newer" existing homes are selling for $20/ft less than the new builds.

[BoulderSooner]

Like I said. There are probably some that made money. and yes you are right about Hill still building.

I understand HOA dues aren't part of the equation for the vast majority of sellers. However, at the Hill when some dues are $4000-7000/year, on top of property taxes in that same range, it might look like you made $100K on paper, but did you really?

as for the Hill, here are "newer" Existing Homes (built in 2015+) vs New Construction sold Data in last 2 years.

Existing
One for sale (built in 2016 and bought for $600K) at $620K at $294/ft. Been on market for 4 days.
Two sold (built in 2015 and 2017) for an average price of $625K at $282/ft with average days on market of 134. One home appreciated $25K from when they bought it new, one depreciated $25K from when they bought it new.

New Construction
4 active. average price $747.5K at $307.33/ft with an average days on market for 353 days.
8 have sold for average price of $735K at $302/ft with an average days on market of 73 (3-311)

So just by looking at the Hill the "newer" existing homes are selling for $20/ft less than the new builds.

yes you made 100k the hoa dues gave you a swimming pool work out facility and an armed guard while you lived there .. not hard to understand

[riflesforwatie]

How is the Wheeler District functionally different from a new-build subdivision right now? It currently consists only of single-family homes of similar (relatively high) value, with consistent architectural features and a sole point of ingress/egress to the city street grid. No one can feasibly reside in that neighborhood without a car. Even if you have a car but want to use public transportation (or a bike or your legs), there’s no safe or pleasant way to achieve that. (If you disagree, I invite you to enjoy a safe and pleasant walk along S Western from the entrance of the Wheeler District to Reno Ave. Taking the OK River Trails over to Walker and then going into Downtown that way is a little better, although I wouldn’t recommend it to everyone after dark.)

I have to say I agree with Teo, AP, and Richard, in the sense that the Wheeler District could, in the future, become much more unique, especially if they move toward denser multi-family housing along the Oklahoma River, or start to mix in some different income levels. Multi-family housing is the more likely of the two, but the price points likely to prevail at Wheeler probably wouldn’t be that much cheaper than the West Village, Lift, the Metropolitan, or the Edge. If you’re a young professional choosing one of those four mega-complexes, what would a hypothetical Wheeler District apartment complex offer? You could rent a similarly priced apartment in one of OKC’s several organic urban districts, instead. As for different levels of income, I think the fact that the Wheeler District master plans show somewhat limited street interaction and connectivity with the existing houses off McKinley Ave just to the west speaks for itself. (Note that SW 19, SW 18, SW 17, SW 16, and SW 11, it appears, will not be thru streets on the western border of Wheeler.) We can’t forget the charter school dust-up, either. I applaud the developers for modifying their original plan to include more of the area surrounding the Wheeler District, but I think it does speak to the idea that Wheeler is something separate and apart from the surrounding areas of the South Side.

Anyway, right now Wheeler is basically a suburb. It’s a lot like the original “Streetcar Suburbs”, but without the streetcar. It’s much more convenient relative to options like Mustang and Piedmont, and environmentally speaking it’s far, far superior. Wheeler isn’t contributing to sprawl. They’re building energy-efficient homes. They’re regenerating (and hopefully, eventually, driving reinvestment) disadvantaged areas. If you want a new-build single-family home and can’t afford SoSA but want to be relatively close to the action, it’s a good choice. I certainly think the houses should have a big premium over your bog-standard tract builds in Yukon and Deer Creek. (There’s also a premium for the architectural style, although that is admittedly pretty personal.) But I have a hard time -- *right now* -- arguing that Wheeler is worth a giant premium over established historic neighborhoods like Crown Heights, Shepherd, Gatewood, Mesta, and all the rest. Wheeler kind of reminds me of those low-maintenance pre-retirement communities that were all the rage back in the mid-2000s. Those were built in suburbs, including in Oklahoma – one I’m personally familiar with was built in Broken Arrow. They’re detached single-family homes with tiny yards, no street parking, and limited egress to the city street grid. Unlike those communities, Wheeler isn’t gated, which is a good thing, and Wheeler does have some mixed-use activity with the publicly accessible Terminal Commons in place of a private clubhouse. I applaud the developers for taking a risk, even with contributions from the public purse. I hope that they are able to build out the whole thing and that it prompts additional urban development throughout OKC.

[Pete]

^

Have really missed you on the site!

Please post more.

[AP]

^

Have really missed you on the site!

Please post more.

I've been telling him the same thing!

[king183]

It’s interesting to read the comments above concerned that Wheeler isn’t yet or isn’t close to becoming a dense enough or mixed-income neighborhood, because Wheeler has been pretty transparent with their plans. The Spoke Street homes are under construction now and are bringing the first mixed use buildings to the neighborhood; the terrace homes were just announced and will be similar; the office building currently under construction is bringing mixed use (a coffee shop and restaurants on the first level); a condo development is set to begin later this year; and apartments are set to be announced later this year as well. Some of you appears to think this type of mixed use, dense neighborhood pops up overnight. The plan has always been to do this over a period of at least 10 years, and they’re clearly making pretty rapid progress with it already.