Oklahoma liquor laws

[jedicurt]

Old Law:
Liquor Store Licenses have to be in the name of a Oklahoma resident, and an Oklahoma resident is limited to 1 license.

New Law:
Liquor Store Licenses have to be in the name of a Oklahoma resident, and an Oklahoma resident is limited to 2 licenses.

Chains are not allowed, out of state ownership is not allowed.

thanks swake. i knew it was something like that, but not the exact specifics.

[jedicurt]

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!

wow... the escalated quickly.

[Plutonic Panda]

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!

That’s the free market. If you don’t support the free market I can understand your position.

[gopokes88]

That’s the free market. If you don’t support the free market I can understand your position.

It’s nothing remotely close to a free market. That issue doesn’t even apply here.

Spec’s and OK liquor have been operating under an entirely different set of rules for over 50 years. Those rules allowed Specs to build a war chest they would happily use to crush every store in Oklahoma they possibly could. Meanwhile OK handicapped theirs by only allowing 1 store per person.

Nuance isn’t your thing though. Rather just make lazy, broad, generic, statements.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ please explain to me how preventing chains from entering the market makes for a free market?

[Stew]

YEAH!!!! Go to hell local business and local liquor store owners! You SOBs need to be punished and ground into the dirt so we can ship even MORE of our money out of state. All hail Specs and chains!

Why do you hate the free market?

[jerrywall]

Well, there is something to be said... what does Oklahoma gain by allowing an out of state chain to come in and open up liquor stores, sending local money out of state?

It won't increase selection. It won't increase availability (that's not an issue). It can't really even effect prices. This isn't like when you're talking about bringing in Ikea or Trader Joes or such which brings new products and offerings to the state. This would be, hey, lets open this up... because... um... I went to Specs once and liked it?

Retail Liquor is commoditized. We don't need to be looking out of state for retailers. Most of the shops owned in state are families' income and retirement. They're our friends and neighbors. That half a pint of Burnetts will taste the same from Byron's or Sam's as it would from Specs.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, there is something to be said... what does Oklahoma gain by allowing an out of state chain to come in and open up liquor stores, sending local money out of state?

Well by your own account a) you have owned a liquor store so you have personal bias in this case which is fine and I understand the emotional connection and B) you have stated in response to me that even if allowed liquor stores would still close during sundays and late at night for the most part as the owners may simply not want to be open or the business might not be there. For a chain it is almost guaranteed to have later hours and they can be big enough to not worry about minor losses by being open at night. I am sure a chain would stay open as much as possible and a few stores around OKC would certainly be open as much as possible.

Increased competition is a good thing and the consumer would gain from it.

It won't increase selection. It won't increase availability (that's not an issue). It can't really even effect prices. This isn't like when you're talking about bringing in Ikea or Trader Joes or such which brings new products and offerings to the state. This would be, hey, lets open this up... because... um... I went to Specs once and liked it?

This is not entirely true. There have been times where it has been hard to find a specific drink that I can find here in California in many instances and why would a chain not bring new or hard to find products? I don't buy this. I have consistently found that in states with chains prices are lower than mom and pop liquor stores.

To your last sentence, yes. I liked the store and I want one in Oklahoma. What is the problem with that? They are successful in other cities why wouldn't they be in Oklahoma.

Retail Liquor is commoditized. We don't need to be looking out of state for retailers. Most of the shops owned in state are families' income and retirement. They're our friends and neighbors. That half a pint of Burnetts will taste the same from Byron's or Sam's as it would from Specs.

With this logic then lets ban out of state electronic store chains, mattress chains, furniture store chains... hell lets just force every type of store to be local owned only. Why does that only have to be the case with liquor stores.

We might as well go Weather's audio and video in downtown Edmond and ask him to formulate policy on whether we should allow Best Buy to operate in the state or not.

[dankrutka]

Why do you hate the free market?

Because none of the stuff at the market is, in fact, free. #FalseAdvertising

[Jeremy Martin]

Because none of the stuff at the market is, in fact, free. #FalseAdvertising

Haaaaa! This guy gets it.
Also, I love Specs and total wine.

[jerrywall]

Well by your own account a) you have owned a liquor store so you have personal bias in this case which is fine and I understand the emotional connection and B) you have stated in response to me that even if allowed liquor stores would still close during sundays and late at night for the most part as the owners may simply not want to be open or the business might not be there. For a chain it is almost guaranteed to have later hours and they can be big enough to not worry about minor losses by being open at night. I am sure a chain would stay open as much as possible and a few stores around OKC would certainly be open as much as possible.

First of all, you need to learn the difference between bias, and perspective as well as experience and knowledge. As for the rest, we don't need out of state chains to have stores open later. We have them already.

Increased competition is a good thing and the consumer would gain from it.

This is not entirely true. There have been times where it has been hard to find a specific drink that I can find here in California in many instances and why would a chain not bring new or hard to find products? I don't buy this. I have consistently found that in states with chains prices are lower than mom and pop liquor stores.

This is where your lack of knowledge of how the industry works come in, although it's been covered on this board enough that you should get this. All The Liquor Stores In Oklahoma Have Access To The Same Products. Products are brought into Oklahoma and to liquor stores through the wholesale and brokerage system. All the stores get access to those products. Now yeah, some stores in the state may carry more than other stores, but a new out of state chain won't be bringing in new products to the state. They won't be able to get anything you can't get at Byrons or 1000+ other liquor stores. So zero value. As for pricing? Meh. I used to price compare 200+ items between Specs, Byrons, a couple of other local places, and our own shop on a weekly basis. I'd find one off things that were up and down but overall Byrons (and most of the Oklahoma stores truly) were lower than specs. As you're so proud of saying, increased competition is good. I'd rather have 1000+ individual liquor stores competing for my business than one megachain. All stores pay the same prices for products. And, with a small amount of variation, they tend to operate with a similar markup on average. Now, various stores cut the margin thinner on certain products and increase it on others, but it tends to balance out, with the larger stores like Byrons obviously falling towards the slimmer margin average. Stores in similar geographic areas tend to be similarly priced. Sure, the prices in Welston or Luthor will tend to be higher than in the cities, but that's typical.

To your last sentence, yes. I liked the store and I want one in Oklahoma. What is the problem with that? They are successful in other cities why wouldn't they be in Oklahoma.

They are successful. In Texas. Because, as I covered in an earlier post, the market doesn't support/isn't set up for interstate liquor stores. And again what do they offer that ads value to Oklahoma? Or that you can't get here? Same products, same selection. Oh, there might be more of them open later, possibly? Ok, so that's just more money going out of state. I don't see the incentive to change the laws.

With this logic then lets ban out of state electronic store chains, mattress chains, furniture store chains... hell lets just force every type of store to be local owned only. Why does that only have to be the case with liquor stores.

We might as well go Weather's audio and video in downtown Edmond and ask him to formulate policy on whether we should allow Best Buy to operate in the state or not.

Let's move on past the stupid reductio ad absurdum games. You're better than that. It's not a direct comparison, and beyond that, no one is wanting to ban anything, much less force anyone out. You're the one suggesting the change. So it's up to you to justify it, and there's really no benefit that allowing out of state ownership of liquor stores that I can see. Maybe allowing local chains, possibly, although there's a deeper reason to limiting the locations to one or two per owner (personal and direct liability of enforcement of liquor laws).

And, what if it is protectionist? SO WHAT? Communities, cities, states, and countries can and should be protectionist of their native businesses. We should maybe stop chasing out of state chains to Oklahoma, especially if they cost us money (incentives) and also if they don't bring anything new to Oklahoma, and would only take way from local owners. And, again, with liquor there is an issue of direct liability. Yeah, we sort of threw that out of the window with grocery sales, but it doesn't diminish it's value.

[Mott]

If all store have the same access, how does Trader Joe’s and Aldi’s have their own wine selections, which nobody else has?

[Plutonic Panda]

First of all, you need to learn the difference between bias, and perspective as well as experience and knowledge. As for the rest, we don't need out of state chains to have stores open later. We have them already.



This is where your lack of knowledge of how the industry works come in, although it's been covered on this board enough that you should get this. All The Liquor Stores In Oklahoma Have Access To The Same Products. Products are brought into Oklahoma and to liquor stores through the wholesale and brokerage system. All the stores get access to those products. Now yeah, some stores in the state may carry more than other stores, but a new out of state chain won't be bringing in new products to the state. They won't be able to get anything you can't get at Byrons or 1000+ other liquor stores. So zero value. As for pricing? Meh. I used to price compare 200+ items between Specs, Byrons, a couple of other local places, and our own shop on a weekly basis. I'd find one off things that were up and down but overall Byrons (and most of the Oklahoma stores truly) were lower than specs. As you're so proud of saying, increased competition is good. I'd rather have 1000+ individual liquor stores competing for my business than one megachain. All stores pay the same prices for products. And, with a small amount of variation, they tend to operate with a similar markup on average. Now, various stores cut the margin thinner on certain products and increase it on others, but it tends to balance out, with the larger stores like Byrons obviously falling towards the slimmer margin average. Stores in similar geographic areas tend to be similarly priced. Sure, the prices in Welston or Luthor will tend to be higher than in the cities, but that's typical.



They are successful. In Texas. Because, as I covered in an earlier post, the market doesn't support/isn't set up for interstate liquor stores. And again what do they offer that ads value to Oklahoma? Or that you can't get here? Same products, same selection. Oh, there might be more of them open later, possibly? Ok, so that's just more money going out of state. I don't see the incentive to change the laws.



Let's move on past the stupid reductio ad absurdum games. You're better than that. It's not a direct comparison, and beyond that, no one is wanting to ban anything, much less force anyone out. You're the one suggesting the change. So it's up to you to justify it, and there's really no benefit that allowing out of state ownership of liquor stores that I can see. Maybe allowing local chains, possibly, although there's a deeper reason to limiting the locations to one or two per owner (personal and direct liability of enforcement of liquor laws).

And, what if it is protectionist? SO WHAT? Communities, cities, states, and countries can and should be protectionist of their native businesses. We should maybe stop chasing out of state chains to Oklahoma, especially if they cost us money (incentives) and also if they don't bring anything new to Oklahoma, and would only take way from local owners. And, again, with liquor there is an issue of direct liability. Yeah, we sort of threw that out of the window with grocery sales, but it doesn't diminish it's value.

Maybe I misused the term bias but it’s no surprise to me you would be against chains and I’m not bashing you for that. I get it. I value local stores but above all I support the free market.

One of the key words you said about liquor stores having access is different from them actually carrying the product. Several types of special vodka infused with glitter I could not find in Oklahoma and neither in local LA liquor stores but the big chains have it or did. Maybe some liquor stores might carry it but explain how a local liquor store carries the same variety of products a massive chain store does?

I’ve stayed why I think we should get chains in Oklahoma. I personally prefer stores Specs, Total Wine, and BevMo. No liquor store in Oklahoma comes close.

I agree with you on 99% of what you post but not in this case. I think Oklahoma would benefit from allowing chain liquor stores and yes we would see many local liquor stores close but that is because the chains are better. Sorry but it’s true.

[Plutonic Panda]

A bill is being drafted to permanently allow home delivery and curbside pickup.

https://kfor.com/news/alcohol-delive...g-after-covid/

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13...ohol-advances/

This is a next step. In no particular order, we just now need to allow 24 hour sales, spirits and liquor sold in grocery stores and pharmacies, and chain stores removing the one store per person thing. If we do those three things Oklahoma will have a completely modernized and free system.

[Stew]

A bill is being drafted to permanently allow home delivery and curbside pickup.

https://kfor.com/news/alcohol-delive...g-after-covid/

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13...ohol-advances/

This is a next step. In no particular order, we just now need to allow 24 hour sales, spirits and liquor sold in grocery stores and pharmacies, and chain stores removing the one store per person thing. If we do those three things Oklahoma will have a completely modernized and free system.

Is it possible to buy stock in AA?

[Plutonic Panda]

Is it possible to buy stock in AA?

The way it’s going for me I’ll contribute to the increased value of it.

[jedicurt]

Is it possible to buy stock in AA?

and how will this lead to more alcoholics? those that would use this service were already going to drink. now they can do it safely and not drive.

[Plutonic Panda]

and how will this lead to more alcoholics? those that would use this service were already going to drink. now they can do it safely and not drive.

I think he was referring to my wishlist. Judging by his posting habits he is being facetious but many others do feel like it would lead to more drinking which is a myth. It just makes it easier for those who already do it. Oh well. Nothing like showing up at six am sharp to buy some liquor and get a fix.

[Bill Robertson]

A bill is being drafted to permanently allow home delivery and curbside pickup.

https://kfor.com/news/alcohol-delive...g-after-covid/

https://journalrecord.com/2020/05/13...ohol-advances/

This is a next step. In no particular order, we just now need to allow 24 hour sales, spirits and liquor sold in grocery stores and pharmacies, and chain stores removing the one store per person thing. If we do those three things Oklahoma will have a completely modernized and free system.

I hope! I’ve actually loved getting everything I can curbside. Though I’m probably getting really lazy.

[Questor]

Actually, I think this is a great idea. It seems like it could lower instances of drunk driving. If the driver is checking your ID, I don’t know what a rational argument against home delivery would be.

[mugofbeer]

Home delivery....... going back to the days when the Townley's Dairy guys in white uniforms and hats and funny looking trucks delivered milk, ice cream and eggs to your door.

Now it will be people delivering Jack Daniels, Tito's and Sauza along with a nice, fruity cabernet to your door.

[PaddyShack]

Home delivery....... going back to the days when the Townley's Dairy guys in white uniforms and hats and funny looking trucks delivered milk, ice cream and eggs to your door.

Now it will be people delivering Jack Daniels, Tito's and Sauza along with a nice, fruity cabernet to your door.

I would rather the diary guys... We go through dairy faster than booze

[Edmond Hausfrau]

I would rather the diary guys... We go through dairy faster than booze

I think Schwann's still does home delivery. I see their trucks in the neighborhood and I think it's mostly meat and dairy.

[Jeepnokc]

I think Schwann's still does home delivery. I see their trucks in the neighborhood and I think it's mostly meat and dairy.

Ice cream Actually though..they do a lot of premade frozen food that is quite good. Southwest chicken egg rolls, frozen beef sticks, pasta dishes, frozen pizzas, etc We used them quite a bit before we had kids. With three teenagers...was a little expensive to feed them.

[Bill Robertson]

I suspected that when it became obvious that curbside and delivery of alcohol would work that it might become permanent. I like it because I’ve come to like curbside and delivery of everything. If I can going forward I’ll be doing a lot more business this way.