Wheeler District

[Harbinger]

I'm posting this article here because I still see a number of members post about how they don't "get" Wheeler. And while Wheeler has tackled the problem of efficient land use, there is still the challenge of affordability. The article speaks to that concern as well.

http://theconversation.com/americas-...box=1577975781

[Richard at Remax]

I personally think that is a horrible idea to allow multifamily in neighborhoods where there aren't any. It would destabilize any area where this would happen.

[andrew]

I personally think that is a horrible idea to allow multifamily in neighborhoods where there aren't any. It would destabilize any area where this would happen.

Would you care to expand on why destabilization would occur?

[Richard at Remax]

Long story short it would bring down home values if all of a sudden multifamily were allowed to plot down in areas that have been SFR for years. Say your home is worth $300K, but a quad plex goes in. Well they start selling for $75K a piece. All of a sudden your home isn't worth $300K anymore. Equity vanishes.

No one will say it out loud, but no home buyer wants to live in a home next to a multifamily. I dealt with that on a listing I had on 25th that was next to a quad plex. Took a long time to sell and #1 complaint were buyers were uneasy about the constant turnover that would happen next door.

[T. Jamison]

Long story short it would bring down home values if all of a sudden multifamily were allowed to plot down in areas that have been SFR for years. Say your home is worth $300K, but a quad plex goes in. Well they start selling for $75K a piece. All of a sudden your home isn't worth $300K anymore. Equity vanishes.

No one will say it out loud, but no home buyer wants to live in a home next to a multifamily. I dealt with that on a listing I had on 25th that was next to a quad plex. Took a long time to sell and #1 complaint were buyers were uneasy about the constant turnover that would happen next door.

Do you have similar experiences with condo development? I feel condos are at times under-represented in density discussions.
One thing I rather like about North May/Penn Avenue is there is a good mix of single-family, multi-family and condominiums in all price ranges from I-44 to JKT.
(Full disclosure: I find condominiums desirable and am slightly biased)

[Canoe]

Do you have similar experiences with condo development? I feel condos are at times under-represented in density discussions.
One thing I rather like about North May/Penn Avenue is there is a good mix of single-family, multi-family and condominiums in all price ranges from I-44 to JKT.
(Full disclosure: I find condominiums desirable and am slightly biased)

The market in Oklahoma City doesn't seem to value condos. I wonder if it is because land was historically cheap. It is interesting to see high end condos and very low end in okc.

[Richard at Remax]

The pockets of condos out there in that area are pretty successful. The entry point prices are usually around $100K too so they are not terribly expensive to get into. Most have solid HOA and management that keep them nice so that helps too. LIke HHE said, I just think there aren't too many because our land prices have never been high so there was never a rush to put them in.

[T. Jamison]

The pockets of condos out there in that area are pretty successful. The entry point prices are usually around $100K too so they are not terribly expensive to get into. Most have solid HOA and management that keep them nice so that helps too. LIke HHE said, I just think there aren't too many because our land prices have never been high so there was never a rush to put them in.

Right. And North May/Penn is high dollar dirt (in most parts).
I'm just curious if single-family home buyers are as concerned about condos as apartments. If you're looking at rezoning an established single-family residential neighborhoods (which in this example is valuable enough land for apartments), would (in your opinion) proposing condos or a mix of for-sale and for-rent units be more palatable for they adjoining property owners and shore up some of the inevitable sell-off.

[Richard at Remax]

Inside the actual neighborhood? No. I think anything but SFR would be a disaster. It's basically giving the double birds to existing homeowners and saying we are doing this to your home values on the basis of being inclusive. I know that is being blunt but how is that fair? Whole thing just seems like a slippery slope.

Now if it's like the Grove and there is a plot of land next to it that is going to be APTS, then there is really nothing you can do about that.

[turnpup]

It's interesting to me, and I think it's really awesome, how some of our historic neighborhoods (HH and Mesta being two examples) were always mixed occupancy type, and still seem to thrive with the blend of single-family, duplexes and multiplexes scattered throughout. There's also a wide range of sizes and price points among the single family homes, which allows a more diverse mix of residents. I've seen people upsize and downsize within the same area over the years as their families and needs change.

[GoGators]

Inside the actual neighborhood? No. I think anything but SFR would be a disaster. It's basically giving the double birds to existing homeowners and saying we are doing this to your home values on the basis of being inclusive. I know that is being blunt but how is that fair? Whole thing just seems like a slippery slope.

Now if it's like the Grove and there is a plot of land next to it that is going to be APTS, then there is really nothing you can do about that.

Multi family doesn’t automatically lower value. In some cases they help to increase value by adding density and bringing more amenities to the neighborhood. Density follows demand And high demand is usually a good sign for property values.There are several small apts, duplexes, 4 plex, and garage apts sprinkled throughout my neighborhood. There have also been a surge in new multi family units inside the neighborhood over the last 5 years or so and home values continue to skyrocket.

The good vs bad of what multi family does to a neighborhood depends entirely on where the neighborhood is and how it functions. Classen 16 being built certainly hasn’t hurt property values along 16th.

I suppose it’s just individual buyer preference at the end of the day. But I wouldn’t say “everyone” hates living next to Multifamily or that Multifamily would destabilize “any” neighborhood it went in to.

[TheTravellers]

It's interesting to me, and I think it's really awesome, how some of our historic neighborhoods (HH and Mesta being two examples) were always mixed occupancy type, and still seem to thrive with the blend of single-family, duplexes and multiplexes scattered throughout. There's also a wide range of sizes and price points among the single family homes, which allows a more diverse mix of residents. I've seen people upsize and downsize within the same area over the years as their families and needs change.

Those two neighborhoods (and many others close, like Paseo, Uptown, etc.) having all those multi-family homes probably work out quite well because all the multi-family homes are scattered throughout the neighborhoods, which is waaaaay better than having a monolithic set of apartments/condos sitting all in one spot with a sea of parking around them.

[Plutonic Panda]

I personally think that is a horrible idea to allow multifamily in neighborhoods where there aren't any. It would destabilize any area where this would happen.

So are predicting neighborhoods in this area will see a drop in their home values?

[hoya]

A cheap apartment building in an existing middle class neighborhood will bring down home values. The perception is that apartments (particularly cheap apartments) bring in undesirable people who will tear up the neighborhood and steal stuff.

A fairly expensive apartment building, catering to young professionals, can increase home values in a neighborhood. Bring in young people with money, and they want places to spend that money. Existing homes in the neighborhood are in higher demand because there's more cool stuff around.

It appears there's a certain income level, below which apartments are seen as "bad". Above that level and they don't have the same negative perception.

[stlokc]

This.

I have lived in apartments where the monthly rent is considerably higher than the mortgage payment on a neighboring home would be. There's no reason multi-family has to drag down a neighborhood if it is nice and well maintained. Lots of people have reasons why they live in apartments from time to time, including divorce, job change, being newly-arrived in a city, or simple preference.

A cheap apartment building in an existing middle class neighborhood will bring down home values. The perception is that apartments (particularly cheap apartments) bring in undesirable people who will tear up the neighborhood and steal stuff.

A fairly expensive apartment building, catering to young professionals, can increase home values in a neighborhood. Bring in young people with money, and they want places to spend that money. Existing homes in the neighborhood are in higher demand because there's more cool stuff around.

It appears there's a certain income level, below which apartments are seen as "bad". Above that level and they don't have the same negative perception.

[SEMIweather]

This.

I have lived in apartments where the monthly rent is considerably higher than the mortgage payment on a neighboring home would be. There's no reason multi-family has to drag down a neighborhood if it is nice and well maintained. Lots of people have reasons why they live in apartments from time to time, including divorce, job change, being newly-arrived in a city, or simple preference.

For real. I live in a 650 sq ft apartment right now and it's honestly just about the largest space I would want to live in barring any major lifestyle changes. I don't own enough stuff to justify anything larger.

[dankrutka]

For real. I live in a 650 sq ft apartment right now and it's honestly just about the largest space I would want to live in barring any major lifestyle changes. I don't own enough stuff to justify anything larger.

Same except I’m in 550 square feet. I’ve never felt the need for more space.

[Laramie]

Per Oklahoman, January 6, 2020

William Crum:

Council agrees to $20 million for elementary school

The city council concurred with the Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust on a deal devoting $20 million to construction of a new elementary school in the Wheeler District, which is under development on the south side of the Oklahoma River at Western Avenue. The school is slated to be built at 1300 SW 15 St.; the deal is with the Wheeler Community Foundation Inc. Costs are covered through a tax-increment financing arrangement approved by the city council in 2017.



The school would be known as Western Gateway Elementary School. Developers are hoping to open the dual language charter school in August of 2020 (look for update).

[shawnw]

OKCFA is having a tour of Terminal Commons on 1/30:

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=lkXotEQZleA

[Pete]

Photos of Terminal Commons from shawnw:

[shawnw]

They said estimated opening is March.

[Pete]

[shawnw]

FYI there's going to be a playground inside the concrete wall between Terminal Commons and the Brewery, hopefully open by Spring.

[kevin lee]

I wonder why they're placing a concrete wall instead of a cheaper fence around a playground.

[Pete]

I wonder why they're placing a concrete wall instead of a cheaper fence around a playground.

It's a design element. Hard to see, but there is a quote carved into the wall.