Panhandlers

[Jeepnokc]

There are those who have legitimate needs but there are those that are out there to scam a buck. which is unfortunate because it takes away from those that need it. My biggest disappointment is to see kid groups and church groups on the corner asking for donations. When I was a child, (after walking to school ten miles in the snow uphill each way) we would hold car washes, etc to actually exchange something for the money. Part of that was teaching kids that nothing in life is free and that you should work for something. What are we teaching now when we take the group to the corner asking for donations.

[turnpup]

^^^^^

Plus, it's DANGEROUS to let kids stand on street corners and in medians, for any purpose. And a liability issue of course to whatever entity is sponsoring/endorsing/encouraging the activity.

[kevinpate]

... What are we teaching now when we take the group to the corner asking for donations.

Ahh, the days of swinging a duel sided blade in ditches for car dealerships and others, and cutting lawns, etc. to pay for scout/other camps. Hot times in the ol' home town, both literally and figuratively.

[Thomas Vu]

And I bet he used a dirty rag and it was worse when he was done. That's what happens to me when I'm in Houston.

On the contrary, real squeegee like from a gas station. Could have stolen it for all I know.

[bradh]

There are those who have legitimate needs but there are those that are out there to scam a buck. which is unfortunate because it takes away from those that need it. My biggest disappointment is to see kid groups and church groups on the corner asking for donations. When I was a child, (after walking to school ten miles in the snow uphill each way) we would hold car washes, etc to actually exchange something for the money. Part of that was teaching kids that nothing in life is free and that you should work for something. What are we teaching now when we take the group to the corner asking for donations.

I think I already addressed this same issue on another thread, but it drives me nuts seeing this. So much that I've thought about starting a volunteer organization that helps sports teams find business to partner with to hold car washes or other fundraising activities that require property access and higher visibility for fundraisers.

[ljbab728]

Additional restrictions may be on the way.

New panhandling limits sought by Oklahoma City council members | NewsOK.com

The measure would modify the definition of "aggressive" panhandling to include soliciting within 50 feet of a school bus stop or an elementary school's property.
The measure also would expand from 20 feet to 50 feet the panhandling-free zones around outdoor seating at cafes and restaurants, and near ATMs, public restrooms, and transit stops.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like it.

[trousers]

Additional restrictions may be on the way.

New panhandling limits sought by Oklahoma City council members | NewsOK.com

So free speech zones?

[Plutonic Panda]

OKC council begs the question: Is new panhandling law strict enough? | News OK

[BBatesokc]

The current ordinance hasn't made any change IMO at the corner of SE 44 and I-35. I'm by there a couple of times a week and there are always 3-10 panhandlers standing there with signs. Sure, they are not in the median, but they are everywhere else.

[Martin]

The current ordinance hasn't made any change IMO at the corner of SE 44 and I-35. I'm by there a couple of times a week and there are always 3-10 panhandlers standing there with signs. Sure, they are not in the median, but they are everywhere else.

while the law went into effect 1/7, i remember reading an article stating that ocpd would wait at least 30 days to start enforcing it. -M

[warreng88]

OKC Council could restrict panhandlers near schools, ATMs

By: Sarah Terry-Cobo The Journal Record January 19, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – School grounds could be the next place in Oklahoma City where panhandling is forbidden. City Council members voted Tuesday for a public hearing on a proposal to amend a 2010 ordinance that defines and restricts aggressive panhandling.

Millwood school district Superintendent Cecilia Robinson Woods said she requested the changes to create a safer atmosphere for her students.

Councilman John Pettis and Councilman Mark Stonecipher proposed the amendments, which would add schools, bus stops, public toilets and land used to provide educational services to elementary school children to locations where people are prohibited from soliciting money. The proposal extends boundaries prohibiting panhandling to 50 feet from 20 feet in front of ATMs, near outdoor seating areas and close to bus stops.

Woods said parents alerted her to a panhandler near the Millwood schools campus in August. By October, there were three panhandlers, she said. Parents can see those solicitors from their vehicles in child pickup line near the campus, which is located on Martin Luther King Jr. Avenue, near NE 67th Street. She said she didn’t want parents to perceive the school grounds as unsafe.

Woods said she wasn’t aware of anyone aggressively approaching children for money. However, adults reported to her that children darted into traffic to cross the street to avoid passing by a panhandler on the sidewalk near the school, she said.

Woods said she understands panhandlers have a right to make a living and some may have mental health issues. But she said she wanted to ensure children who attend her school have the right to safe passage as they walk to school.

“Panhandlers shouldn’t be near schools, period,” Woods said. “I don’t want to harass them, but we can’t wait for something to happen to someone’s child.”

Oklahoma City Litigation Division Chief Rick Smith said the amendments would protect children from panhandlers. If the changes are approved, those solicitors will still have rights, but must be at least 50 feet from school property, he said.

The proposed changes are unrelated to the recently approved ordinance that restricts panhandling in street medians, Smith said.

The council will hear public comment during its regular council meeting on Jan. 26 and is scheduled to vote on the measure on Feb. 9.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^
Just so that everyone understands, the aggressive panhandling ordinance has existed for years. This is a refinement.

In this case, "aggressive" might mean something other than what people might think. The term is a bit of a catch-all. The existing aggressive panhandling ordinance entirely bans the activity after dark, near ATMs, near the entrances to businesses, asking again when told no, making physical contact and other activities that might reasonably make a person feel unsafe or interfere with commerce.

I say "reasonably" because if merely SEEING a panhandler makes you feel unsafe, your fear probably says more about you than it does the panhandler.

BTW, in my experience quite a few police officers - usually officers who don't normally work downtown - are actually unaware of the ordinance. I have had to educate a number of them when they've responded to calls. It's a pretty powerful tool when used properly, yet doesn't interfere with someone's basic right to free speech.

[jerrywall]

I say "reasonably" because if merely SEEING a panhandler makes you feel unsafe, your fear probably says more about you than it does the panhandler.

Well, unless you're a child, then it's reasonable.

[jerrywall]

Heh.. here's a solution for the really bad medians... I've love to see this put next to the 235 NB 23rd exit median...

[Tritone]

^^^ If they put this in the medians I can't make my u-turns!

[kevinpate]

Sure you can. Run flat tires, hehehehe

[bradh]

Those guys still wander around Midtown after dark approaching groups walking saying they have cancer and anything helps?

[Pete]

Anti-panhandling Ordinance Rebranded After Complaints, Pushback | American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma

[TheTravellers]

From the article:

"On September 15, 2015, Salyer introduced the ordinance during the Oklahoma City council’s weekly meeting.

That day, Salyer told media representatives that quality of life concerns helped shape the ordinance. She said Oklahoma City residents told her “their quality of life was destroyed” by seeing panhandlers every morning as the residents drove through the intersection of NW 23 and Pennsylvania Avenue."

How terrible, to have to see panhandlers every day while driving by them in your car with the windows rolled up, the A/C and radio on, the horror, the horror......

[Bellaboo]

At 23rd and I-235, it's a problem. They litter, they cross the street (jaywalk) during traffic causing problems. About 6 or 8 months ago, a panhandler pulled a knife on a person who was stopped in the turn lane. It was more of a problem back then than it is now. I don't see near the number but that could be due to coming out of the winter weather. At one time the city had put up a 'no loitering' sign, and within a week they had bent it over and thrown it against the fence.

[TexanOkie]

At 23rd and I-235, it's a problem. They litter, they cross the street (jaywalk) during traffic causing problems. About 6 or 8 months ago, a panhandler pulled a knife on a person who was stopped in the turn lane. It was more of a problem back then than it is now. I don't see near the number but that could be due to coming out of the winter weather. At one time the city had put up a 'no loitering' sign, and within a week they had bent it over and thrown it against the fence.

Making panhandling a crime isn't the solution for the problems you mention. I'm pretty sure littering, jaywalking, pulling a knife on someone, loitering, and vandalism are all crimes in and of themselves.

[jerrywall]

Making panhandling a crime isn't the solution for the problems you mention. I'm pretty sure littering, jaywalking, pulling a knife on someone, loitering, and vandalism are all crimes in and of themselves.

I think there is a difference between the rather broad "making panhandling a crime" and "restricting panhandling from certain areas". I personally don't have a problem with restrictions, say, for near a school.

[Jersey Boss]

More concerning about this was the process and deception employed to pass this ordinance. Thanks ACLU and Pete for posting the link.

[jerrywall]

Deception or marketing?