Connecting downtown to Health Sciences Center

[AP]

It would not be worth it, imo. Especially for just the small area from 10th-6th that they suggested capping.

[Urban Pioneer]

It would be worth the cost.

Simply applying good urban principals to the expanse of existing surface parking lots would be a better investment imhop.

Why create density at a premium to try to entice connectivity to an area that is essentially a bunch of mall parking lots? If Health sciences Center were a urban utopia and the only divide in the urban fabric between downtown and it were I-235, these ideas would have merit.

Its not.

[shawnw]

I support capping it, but imagine that displaced Edmond-bound 235 traffic flooding the downtown streets while it was being capped... ouch...

[adaniel]

This is encouraging. But capping 235 won't be cheap.

For comparison's sake, Klyde Warren Park in Dallas was a $110 million affair, and that was in 2012. I'm not sure I want a freeway cap that bad.

A much more affordable alternative would be to build a highly landscaped pedestrian walkway and bridge, maybe something similar to the Chelsea High Line, perhaps?

[Bellaboo]

I'd say just go with a large pedestrian and bicycle bridge between 8th and 9th with connecting access that is friendly to the bridge.

[shawnw]

So people would have to walk through the metropolitan to get to it? I support a pedestrian bridge as well but am not sure where it would best go.

[shawnw]

Oh maybe that's right where the metropolitan ends? But then there's GE on the other side?

[Bellaboo]

Oh maybe that's right where the metropolitan ends? But then there's GE on the other side?

This one, right where the Metropolitan ends on the North and span the new connection off ramp to 10th just South of GE. There should be enough right away there.

This would save multiple millions from capping the road and connect pedestrians / bicyclist safely to both sides.

[shawnw]

yeah but then there's nothingness on the other side for quite a ways... but I would like a more hospitable crossing vs 10th or really any other place.

[Bellaboo]

yeah but then there's nothingness on the other side for quite a ways... but I would like a more hospitable crossing vs 10th or really any other place.

I'm just looking at where the volume of people are located on each side of 235, and this connection puts it in the center.

[gopokes88]

The cap is pretty cool in Dallas, but expanding the street car is probably a better route.

[Plutonic Panda]

If they really wanted to connect downtown with HSC they should either remove the freeway or bury it. It seems to me capping freeways just covers up the problem. If you have to spend that much money to do that just remove it.

[shawnw]

capping=bury, no?

[Plutonic Panda]

capping=bury, no?

Well I meant tunneling the entire thing from 44 to 40. But that would be extremely expensive. It was hard for a city like Boston to do and I think it was over 20 billion.

[Laramie]

I support capping it, but imagine that displaced Edmond-bound 235 traffic flooding the downtown streets while it was being capped... ouch...

Agree, that this will be an inconvenience for all; however, that's the price of progress.

[Urbanized]

Cheaper than capping - and perhaps more innovative and walkabiltiy-oriented - would be to revive and do a modern take on the concept of the Pulteney Bridge in Bath, England. Take the existing bridges and widen them, with commercial structures lining each side. That would give the impression of continuous walkable urban sidewalk from Automobile Alley/Deep Deuce to the other side of the highway. If OUHSC knits itself into a more walkable urban area you then have uninterrupted walkable density between both places. You'd never even know the highway was there.

The bridges would have to be upgraded for streetcar, anyway. Do it at the same time.

[shawnw]

The widened bridges with amenities would be a nice alternative.

[HangryHippo]

I love Bath. It's an incredible place.

[Urban Pioneer]

Streetcar can be expanded via the 4th street underpass without the need to retrofit bridges. It also enables the possible continued expansion and revitalization of the JFK neighborhood. There is no need to build more bridges.

It seems to me that business community is trying to stimulate another big ticket MAPS item that people can only dream about.

[Urbanized]

Ponte Vecchio in Florence is a similar bridge treatment, though pedestrian-only rather than vehicular. I too think creation of new bridges - especially those that separate pedestrian and vehicular traffic completely - is unneeded. But retrofitting existing bridges is a reasonable approach and probably not pie-in-the-sky. It's only adding better urbanism to already-existing structure.

And UP, are you saying a single point of access for the streetcar is optimal? Wouldn't it be best to enter OUHSC on one street alignment and exit on another? More territory covered that way...

Ponte Vecchio:

[Just the facts]

Will the taxes generated by urbanizing the cap be enough to cover the cost of maintaing it? I think the only fiscally responsible solution is to remove I-235 at the end of its life-span and restore the grid with density requirements that can produce enough tax income to maintain it.

[boitoirich]

The Klyde Warren Park cap itself cost $44.5 million for 5.2 acres; the cost per square foot ended up around $196.
The area proposed for the I-235 cap would is approximately 9.2 acres and cost $78 million ($81 million after accounting for inflation).

Most of the money raised for park design and construction came from various private and some public sources in Dallas. If serious about this proposal, we would need strong private commitment to doing the same.

[dwellsokc]

Streetcar can be expanded via the 4th street underpass without the need to retrofit bridges. It also enables the possible continued expansion and revitalization of the JFK neighborhood. There is no need to build more bridges...

I agree that 4th Street would be the logical crossing, but the streetcar can be expanded to cover the planet and it will still only be a novelty item. Who is going to wait 10 minutes for a ride when it takes 5 minutes to walk?

Anyone who has crossed I-235 on foot or bike can tell you that 4th Street, Harrison/8th Street, 10th Street, and 13th Street are dangerous & ugly traverses. The sources of people and destinations for people within the Innovation District are increasing... pedestrian pathway additions and improvements are needed.

Everyone screamed about the lack of pedestrian friendliness of the original Boulevard design... I-235 was designed with the same disregard for pedestrians; it severs a burgeoning and vital district. Improvements are needed.

[catch22]

Streetcar is most certainly not a novelty item. It is packed day in and day out on Portland, and it is not a tourist ride. It is a very pure form of meaningful transit.

[dwellsokc]

Streetcar is most certainly not a novelty item. It is packed day in and day out on Portland, and it is not a tourist ride. It is a very pure form of meaningful transit.

How pure and meaningful is it when 150 people from a 150-acre area want to go to & from lunch on 9th Street at the same time? We're not talking about transiting from St. Anthony Hospital to a Bricktown apartment... we're talking about OU Med, GE, & OURP, etc.

The OKC streetcar is a novelty item.