Big retailer is eyeing OKC & Tulsa

[bchris02]

So our grocery market is going even more downscale?

It's difficult to get any worse than it already is, but this could go one of two ways. WinCo could come in and really eat away at Wal-Marts marketshare, in turn making the market more attractive to better grocers. Or, they could come in and hurt Homeland, Crest, and Buy For Less moreso than Wal-Mart, maybe forcing one of them out which would make our market much worse (if that's possible) than it already is. I think the first option is more likely as WinCo's target customer is the same as Wal-Mart, the concerned with the lowest price and nothing else.

[catch22]

So our grocery market is going even more downscale?

Unfortunately that's the way it needs to go first. Someone is going to have to break up Wal marts dominance. The only way to do that in this market is to be price competitive. the only way to beat Wal Matt on price is to be similar.

It would be much easier for Whole Foods or other decent grocers to open up here after Wal Mart's market share has been diluted.

I wouldn't open a medium to high-quality grocery store in this market with WM's 60% market share. But I would if it were 40%. Even if there was more competition, I could focus on pushing WinCo out and not trying to push Wal Mart out.

Divide and conquer.

[Just the facts]

Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

[Jeepnokc]

I thought I saw an article just his last week that ALDI is looking to put in a few more stores in the OKC metro area. They are owned by the same German family that owns Trader Joes. Hopefully wont keep them from putting in a Trader Joes. There is an ALDI on 19th street in Moore now. Here is an article about them. (It was linked to previous article posted about winco)

Trader Joe's and Aldi: German-Owned Sister Supermarkets Setting Trends | TIME.com

[bchris02]

I thought I saw an article just his last week that ALDI is looking to put in a few more stores in the OKC metro area. They are owned by the same German family that owns Trader Joes. Hopefully wont keep them from putting in a Trader Joes. There is an ALDI on 19th street in Moore now. Here is an article about them. (It was linked to previous article posted about winco)

Trader Joe's and Aldi: German-Owned Sister Supermarkets Setting Trends | TIME.com

Aldi is at a level well below even Wal-Mart, nothing at all to get excited about. Small towns with a population of less than 10,000 have had them for years. Having them won't keep Trader Joe's out, they appeal to entirely different markets even though run by the same company.

Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

I agree, but Wal-Mart has killed retail in this city at all levels. OKC has the retail selection of a small town thanks to the big boys in Bentonville. Diluting Wal-Mart's marketshare will make the market more attractive and that is really what this city needs. For grocery, with a 60% Wal-Mart marketshare, no H-E-B or Kroger is going to set foot here.

[catch22]

Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

At first no it won't.

Someone is going to have to break the fortress WalMart has built out of the OKC market. The only way to break down that wall is to compete on price which means offering a similar product. When walmarts' monopoly is broken up, it will be much easier for higher quality retailers to set up shop because they are facing a larger variety of smaller market shares instead of 2-3 large market share players. It won't be overnight.

[bchris02]

Here's an excellent video on Wal-Mart. Definitely worth a watch.

Something Wall Mart This Way Comes (Season 8, Episode 9) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios

[CaptDave]

If this is true I'd shop there for no other reason. Might be a god place to stock up on staples.

[Video Expert]

Racing to the bottom won't improve retail in OKC.

Could you please explain in some sort of detail why a store like WinCo perhaps coming into the market is "racing to the bottom?" Thank you.

[zookeeper]

Aldi is at a level well below even Wal-Mart, nothing at all to get excited about.

All these grocery store posts are getting old, but I had to respond to this.

Aldi's are clean, staff is friendly, prices are great, to say they are at a level "well below even WalMart" is simply untrue.

[Bunty]

All these grocery store posts are getting old, but I had to respond to this.

Aldi's are clean, staff is friendly, prices are great, to say they are at a level "well below even WalMart" is simply untrue.

So Stillwater shouldn't be too disappointed that just an Aldi's is about ready to open there?

[Bunty]

Here's a Time article on Winco: WinCo: Low-Key, Low-Cost Grocer Called 'Wal-Mart's Worst Nightmare' | TIME.com

[zookeeper]

So Stillwater shouldn't be too disappointed that just an Aldi's is about ready to open there?

No, not at all. Stillwater should be glad a new company wanted to locate there. More choices are better.
ALDI - The TRUTH about ALDI

[bluedogok]

You know what the main difference between WinCo (and HEB) and Walmart is? WinCo is privately held and Walmart is public, just like Hobby Lobby and HEB, WinCo can operate in a different business world than Walmart because they don't have Wall Street, mutual funds, institutional investors, shareholders, etc. to satisfy every day (the financial world no longer cares about quarters). A very successful privately held company can operate in a different way in terms of pay, benefits and expansion than a public company that is always under intense scrutiny from the financial pundits and shareholders with unrealistic expectations for growth. A large part of Walmart's issues in the public realm are driven by the fact they are a public corporation.

The only time that I would consider taking a company public would be if I was looking to cash out and get out.

[RadicalModerate]

If this is true I'd shop there for no other reason. Might be a god place to stock up on staples.

I imagine that a better god place to stock up on staples would be Office Depot . . . or Staples.
and i'll bet you a dollar (that is, four Aldi cart parking deposits) that the girl in the ad doesn't actually work at WinCo.

[CaptDave]

But if she does, that is a bonus!

[Just the facts]

Could you please explain in some sort of detail why a store like WinCo perhaps coming into the market is "racing to the bottom?" Thank you.

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

[MWCGuy]

Walmart is not the cheapest store in town and low price is not the main reason people shop there. If you are a true bargain shopper you hit several stores to pick up on the sale items. However, that is not always feasible to do for most people. The main reason people shop there is the ability to one stop shop. There are very few places where you can pick up just about everything on your shopping list like you can at Walmart.

Walmart can save you travel time where it does not save you money. For instance if you need a tail light lamp, trash bags, weed-eater line, milk, aspirin, tube socks and batteries your more likely to visit Walmart because you probably don't have the time to make all the stops to Home Depot, CVS, Autozone and Target.

Often times the cheapest price is not always the best deal this at any store not just Walmart. I often find my hygiene items are cheaper at Target because they sell the larger sizes. Body Wash at Walmart is usually 12-16 oz while at Target they are 20-24oz. Paper products are always cheaper at Crest and uber expensive at Walmart.

At the end of the day it's a trade off regardless of where you shop the difference is usually negligible. Visiting several stores will eat your savings in gas. Walmart sells smaller sizes and smaller selections. Target has larger sizes, wider selection and the prices are slightly higher. Crest prices depend on the location and what moves at each particular store and what doesn't.

I predict Winco will be just like every other store. They will offer incredible prices until they get a steady customer base established then they will price just like everybody else in the area. The grocery business in OKC has a razor thin profit margin that is why you see somethings on sale dirt cheap one week, then the next week it's a normal price. I noticed the meat prices at Crest on Douglas in MWC tonight were sky high. At the end of the month, everything will be on sale because of Labor Day Weekend.

The important thing to note is that any grocery store is going to take business away from all competitors not just Walmart.

[bluedogok]

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

That is the strange thing about Wall Street and investors, if Walmart tried to emulate the stores and service of Publix or Kroger they would get hammered by the "analysts" for wasting money. They are definitely held to a different standard than other public grocery/merchandisers by those people. It is almost a damned if they do, damned if they don't battle between the public and investment worlds.

[MWCGuy]

If this is true I'd shop there for no other reason. Might be a god place to stock up on staples.

$11 is great for part time work if your like the average grocery store worker your are either a high school or college student. However, if you work full time there is a way to be screwed as an employee making $11 an hour or more (32 hour work week). Many higher paying retail and grocery stores are now paying more thanks to the 32 hour work week. The 32 hour work week saves companies money, time and headaches on so many levels.

1. You can schedule 4 6 hour shifts a day. (5 Day work week or three day work week on 12 hour shifts)
2. You can still have a five day work week.
3. Overtime is non existent.
4. Most employees will be fighting to pick an extra 8 hours to make 40 for the week.. So time off and call ins are breeze to manage.
5. You can schedule a 30 min lunch or two fifteen minute breaks and still be legal.
6. You can schedule the bulk of your workforce between 6am and Midnight. Run a skeleton crew from Midnight to 6am.

In the end, you have a stronger workforce, more people on board and still get out the door as a company who runs a 40 hour work week.

The health insurance is only great if you are the one and only person on the plan. The minute you add your family it sky rockets. A person making $12 an hour is suddenly making $8 or $9 after insurance is taken from the check. That is why if I had my way the employer would be out of the equation. You should be able to find health insurance on your own just like you do your homeowners and car insurance. The rates would drastically drop because the network would disappear and you could choose your own docs and hospitals just like you choose repairman and body shops. Basic services like office visits, x-rays and labs would be cheaply priced because of competition. Hospital services would also drop because you would know the price your paying out the door before you even put on the paper gown. The only thing I believe insurance should be used for is for emergency illness or injury care. Everything else should be paid out of pocket just like you do for car repairs and oil changes. You shop around for the best price. If you had to submit everything to State Farm or Allstate like you do to Blue Cross and Blue Shield oil changes would be $200 and transmissions and engines would be $50,000-$100,000. Anyway back on topic.

[ThomPaine]

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

Same way with Wegmans back east. Great stores, privately held.

Company Overview*|*Wegmans

[Just the facts]

That is the strange thing about Wall Street and investors, if Walmart tried to emulate the stores and service of Publix or Kroger they would get hammered by the "analysts" for wasting money. They are definitely held to a different standard than other public grocery/merchandisers by those people. It is almost a damned if they do, damned if they don't battle between the public and investment worlds.

Winn Dixie was Publix's main competitor here in Florida but they were a public company and just couldn't keep up. They tried laying people off (a Wall Street preferred solution) then closing stores to save money (another Wall Street favorite) - then they went bankrupt, and then they got bought out by Bi-Lo (another private company).

It is hard for companies to make long term plans and have long term strategies when their stock is traded in nanoseconds by people who really couldn't care less about the actual company, and are only concerned with what the stock price will do over the next 1/1000 of a second.

[MWCGuy]

I've always viewed the stock market in the same light as a casino. If you know what you are doing you can make money. Every dollar invested is not always going to payout. If you don't play with caution you will lose more money than you can ever win. The key to gambling is knowing when to walk away from game. The stock market is exactly the same. You have to know what to invest in and what to stay away from. I don't think many of today's investors respect the concept of losing. They think every dollar invested should earn a profit. That way of thinking is leading many businesses large and small to go private or stay private. It's easier to work with private investors than it is to work with people that demand payout for every dollar invested. Most private investors are not caught up with making money every second. What matters is that a profit will payout in the long term. Often times it's better to make a several thousand later than to make a few hundred every day. For most businesses ideas and concepts need time to spread their wings and fly. They don't always take off from the start. Every major business out there today had it's slow start. That slow start lead to many years of success.

[Video Expert]

Getting lower prices at the expense of service and style is racing to the bottom. Publix is our local grocery chain and it is a full service grocery store, complete with custom butcher service - and it is less expensive than Walmart also. To echo bluedog's comment, Publix is also a private company.

Thanks for the response, but I must confess I still don't get the "racing to the bottom" comment. Have you ever stepped foot in a WinCo before? How do you know you are not getting good service (and style) with them if you've never shopped them before? By simply watching a three minute Youtube video?? I'm not saying WinCo is the greatest supermarket ever, but I've actually shopped the store and find it rather silly for anyone to judge the merits of any store without ever shopping or stepping foot in one.

I do agree with you about Publix. I'm VERY familiar with them and have shopped several of their locations in Florida.

[bchris02]

Thanks for the response, but I must confess I still don't get the "racing to the bottom" comment. Have you ever stepped foot in a WinCo before? How do you know you are not getting good service (and style) with them if you've never shopped them before? By simply watching a three minute Youtube video?? I'm not saying WinCo is the greatest supermarket ever, but I've actually shopped the store and find it rather silly for anyone to judge the merits of any store without ever shopping or stepping foot in one.

I do agree with you about Publix. I'm VERY familiar with them and have shopped several of their locations in Florida.

What OKC needs is a grocer like Publix. H-E-B, Kroger, Harris Teeter, etc are very similar. It's mindnumbing that in a metro of 1.3 million you can count the number of that type of grocery store in the entire metro area on one hand. In other cities, even half the size of OKC, they are too numerous to count. WinCo appears to be another no frills type store similar to the stores already in the market, not the notch up that is lacking in OKC. Now its definitely a step forward because it will compete well with Wal-Mart and likely take some marketshare, possibly paving the way for a better grocer to enter the market in the future, but Winco isn't going to solve OKC's grocery woes.