Aviare (formerly Avana)

[BDK]

Which makes you wonder why Henderson was so bad with the project...

Here's another funny thing I noticed: the rehab proposed looks pretty similar to the ORIGINAL design for this project, as approved by OCURA, if I recall correctly.

Still not quite as good as the original proposal, but a huge step forward.

Design Versus Reality: Legacy at Arts Quarter | News OK

[wsucougz]

There's something to be said about doing it right the first time. I imagine 10 years from now most of the new Deep Deuce complexes will be faced with a similar need.

[bchris02]

Still not quite as good as the original proposal, but a huge step forward.

Design Versus Reality: Legacy at Arts Quarter | News OK

I had never seen that. This is a perfect example of the OKC way of proposing something awesome and then scaling it back to the absolute bare minimum.

[Rover]

I had never seen that. This is a perfect example of the OKC way of proposing something awesome and then scaling it back to the absolute bare minimum.

Value engineering is done all the time all over. It isn't just the "OKC way". Often it is "behind the walls", but goes on a lot, particularly after the "here is what we would like" estimates/bids come in.

[bchris02]

Value engineering is done all the time all over. It isn't just the "OKC way". Often it is "behind the walls", but goes on a lot.

True, but I've seen this to a greater extent in OKC than anywhere else I've been. Look at Hogan's Lower Bricktown. How many major developments here have actually been built as proposed?

[catch22]

Bchris, we on this forum are hyper-aware. We know the details and watch the details form before anyone else does.

We don't have the same perspective on developments in other cities. They face similar changes that we do, I imagine. Ask anyone in OKC who doesn't keep track of stuff like the small group of us do, how lower Bricktown turned out relative to the original plans. They will respond that they think they did a good job and/or followed through.

[Rover]

True, but I've seen this to a greater extent in OKC than anywhere else I've been. Look at Hogan's Lower Bricktown. How many major developments here have actually been built as proposed?

I think we lose perspective sometimes by being so close. I've been involved in value engineering projects all over the world and for many years. Far from worse here than other places. Just sometimes seems so,

[PWitty]

Bchris, we on this forum are hyper-aware. We know the details and watch the details form before anyone else does.

We don't have the same perspective on developments in other cities. They face similar changes that we do, I imagine. Ask anyone in OKC who doesn't keep track of stuff like the small group of us do, how lower Bricktown turned out relative to the original plans. They will respond that they think they did a good job and/or followed through.

I completely agree with this. Most people, even if they try and stay involved with their city, don't see EVERY conceptual design from the get go and get excited about things 2 years before they're built. Most people hear about it as dirt starts moving and don't know what it will look like until it's done or there is an article in the paper.

I try and keep up with new developments in KC but there is nowhere that I can find that has everything conveniently located like OKCTalk does. More often than not I just look at the KCStar every now and then, and even there they barely ever talk about new developments (assuming there are any).

[shawnw]

I try and keep up with new developments in KC but there is nowhere that I can find that has everything conveniently located like OKCTalk does.

Maybe you need to be Pete's man on the ground for "kctalk.com"

[PWitty]

Maybe you need to be Pete's man on the ground for "kctalk.com"

I'm no longer in KC, but I would definitely love to have a forum like this for KC that I could follow!

[Spartan]

True, but I've seen this to a greater extent in OKC than anywhere else I've been. Look at Hogan's Lower Bricktown. How many major developments here have actually been built as proposed?

At least half. It's not that bad, especially when you consider that we have virtually powerless ordinances and commissions and everyone is doing the best they can. The real boogeyman is the weak ordinances.

[bchris02]

At least half. It's not that bad, especially when you consider that we have virtually powerless ordinances and commissions and everyone is doing the best they can. The real boogeyman is the weak ordinances.

Personally, I think an ordinance should be passed that holds developers to the quality of the original proposal at least on prime real-estate such as the Canal, the new Boulevard, Central Park, etc to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future. If the developer decides they want to scale back, a second vote should have to take place to determine whether the scaled-down version of the original proposal is acceptable.

We all know there will be some Hogans trying to develop Boulevard-front property and they will present an amazing proposal, but actually deliver something more appropriate for NW 178th and Penn for a fraction of the cost. Why? Because this is Oklahoma City and they know they can get away with it. Lets change that.

[Spartan]

Personally, I think an ordinance should be passed that holds developers to the quality of the original proposal at least on prime real-estate such as the Canal, the new Boulevard, Central Park, etc to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future. If the developer decides they want to scale back, a second vote should have to take place to determine whether the scaled-down version of the original proposal is acceptable.

We all know there will be some Hogans trying to develop Boulevard-front property and they will present an amazing proposal, but actually deliver something more appropriate for NW 178th and Penn for a fraction of the cost. Why? Because this is Oklahoma City and they know they can get away with it. Lets change that.

The question is how do you legally codify that. We need higher standards to come out of PLAN OKC.

[ljbab728]

Steve's update.

Avana Arts District makeover planned | News OK

Clay Wolford, Senior Director of Investments for Greystar, said the owners hope to start improvements by late spring with completion by winter.

[AP]

I think the name of the thread should probably be changed now. I wonder why they didn't make that name change more official? Or maybe they did and I missed it.

[Teo9969]

I'm no longer in KC, but I would definitely love to have a forum like this for KC that I could follow!

Pete's not in OKC…this site seems to be doing just fine ;-)

All you need is some connections.

[Pete]

I've identified key mid-sized cities that need something like OKCTalk because I'd like to take what I've learned here and help bring it to other cities. And to create a network of sites.

So much could be gained not only in those markets, but by sharing between sites.

Skyscraper City and the like are okay but don't go very deep.

[AP]

I've identified key mid-sized cities that need something like OKCTalk because I'd like to take what I've learned here and help bring it to other cities. And to create a network of sites.

So much could be gained not only in those markets, but by sharing between sites.

Skyscraper City and the like are okay but don't go very deep.

I agree. I think Skyscraper City is almost too big for it's own good.

[Pete]

The main advantage of a site like this is that it really helps to engage people in the community.

Not only keeps people informed but interested and motivated to get/stay involved.


Anyway, KC is one that is high on my list. The really big cities are pretty well served in a number of ways.

[Spartan]

I completely agree with this. Most people, even if they try and stay involved with their city, don't see EVERY conceptual design from the get go and get excited about things 2 years before they're built. Most people hear about it as dirt starts moving and don't know what it will look like until it's done or there is an article in the paper.

I try and keep up with new developments in KC but there is nowhere that I can find that has everything conveniently located like OKCTalk does. More often than not I just look at the KCStar every now and then, and even there they barely ever talk about new developments (assuming there are any).

KCRag.com

[Pete]

Has anyone notice progress on this proposed renovation?

[amaesquire]

No progress that I've seen.

[HangryHippo]

Nope. I was by there this morning.

[metro]

Ditto

[Pete]

I'm checking into this.