John Rex Elementary

[dankrutka]

If you pick the right place your neighbors will be people like who you want. Move to Deep Deuce or LEVEL (when it's completed) and there will be a lot of young people. Few families. Downtown needs areas with a lot of young people and areas with families. It seems like the Deep Deuce area is more geared towards young people. Move there. Leave southwest downtown for family developments to emerge. This should not be an either/or discussion...

[Pete]

I'm not sure if this is what Rob is getting at but there are plenty of people in any city that would prefer to have some options other than always being surrounded by kids -- at least on occasion. And there aren't many such opportunities/places in OKC.

Last time I was in town I was excited to see the new urban, hip scene that was emerging and went to dinner at Republic, Deep Deuce Grill, The Wedge and Iguana Grill. In all instances, there were lots of kids at the surrounding tables. I actually really like kids -- I ran a nonprofit for almost a decade that worked with at-risk youth -- but I couldn't help but think, "Is there no place in town that isn't filled with soccer moms and their progeny?"

I know you can go to bars that don't serve anyone under 21, but they also allow smoking which is a terrible trade-off IMO.


Anyway, there are endless opportunities for families in OKC but where on earth can you live and eat without encountering kids everywhere you turn? Wanting to have that option does not make you a bad person and it's something virtually every decent-sized city offers. And it's in very short supply in Oklahoma City.

BTW, it's not just young single people that prefer not to dine next to kiddies in booster chairs. Even if you have kids (or they've already left the nest) it can be darn nice to be away from them and have dinner and drinks in a more sophisticated environment.


And of course, downtown should get their new elementary school... But I think Rob may be expressing a general frustration that lots of others feel.

[okcrob]

Explain to me what entitles you to pick and choose your neighbors? I believe they ate also paying for their residence. Get over yourself and learn how the world works.

That's awesome!

[okcrob]

I am perfectly happy with where I am now. My Neighbors are all like minded as I am and they are splendid people! I wouldn't consider everyone of my neighbors a "young person" we are a mix of business professionals, medical professionals, handfull of airforce folks. They all come to this area for one reason they like this side of Downtown. We like the museum being close, we like being near the gardens, and we are all excited to see what becomes of this area when project 180 completes. And in reply to others; there is more in the world than just singles bars, I RARELY frequent any "singles" bars. If I want to go to a bar I usually go to McNellies or Saints or Picasso. I posted this mostly to stir the pot and get the thoughts of other people. I think families have as much right to be in downtown or anywhere else same as I do. I can choose my neighbors, before I moved where I am now, I didn't like who was living around me and I moved... I chose who to live by... and yes that's how the world works, you don't like something about where you live you move... still a free county last I checked. I just think that the city may be limiting itself; Id go as far to say shoehorning themselves into something if they plop a school in an area prime to explode with retail, restaurants, bars, etc. In reply to "Singles don't buy groceries" I have 2 single friends that are CIA trained Chefs and I assure you we buy more groceries than most families buy in 2 months... doesn't really help me get a grocery store tho.

[okcrob]

I'm not sure if this is what Rob is getting at but there are plenty of people in any city that would prefer to have some options other than always being surrounded by kids -- at least on occasion. And there aren't many such opportunities/places in OKC.

Last time I was in town I was excited to see the new urban, hip scene that was emerging and went to dinner at Republic, Deep Deuce Grill, The Wedge and Iguana Grill. In all instances, there were lots of kids at the surrounding tables. I actually really like kids -- I ran a nonprofit for almost a decade that worked with at-risk youth -- but I couldn't help but think, "Is there no place in town that isn't filled with soccer moms and their progeny?"

I know you can go to bars that don't serve anyone under 21, but they also allow smoking which is a terrible trade-off IMO.


Anyway, there are endless opportunities for families in OKC but where on earth can you live and eat without encountering kids everywhere you turn? Wanting to have that option does not make you a bad person and it's something virtually every decent-sized city offers. And it's in very short supply in Oklahoma City.

BTW, it's not just young single people that prefer not to dine next to kiddies in booster chairs. Even if you have kids (or they've already left the nest) it can be darn nice to be away from them and have dinner and drinks in a more sophisticated environment.


And of course, downtown should get their new elementary school... But I think Rob may be expressing a general frustration that lots of others feel.

Spot on on all points Pete! I don't hate kids either.

Anyway, there are endless opportunities for families in OKC but where on earth can you live and eat without encountering kids everywhere you turn? Wanting to have that option does not make you a bad person and it's something virtually every decent-sized city offers. And it's in very short supply in Oklahoma City. My point exactly.

[okcrob]

I don't tend to wish ill on anyone, so when I ponder the thought of the OP awakening one morning to realize adjacent to him are moving vans carrying his new neighbors, which include a family with a set of chronically crying triplets, and a family with a quad teens who happen to have an in much need of practice garage band, along with their five friends who make up the horn section, and a family that has a soccer mom with a Cub Scout, a Girl Scout and a band member sibling, all prone to knock on doors for fundraisers, I do so only with a song in my heart and a wish for the OP to learn the true joy of how wonderful it is to see families grow and prosper up close. No, now, don't be so cynical. I mean it.

Won't happen because families like that want a house, not a two bedroom apartment. That's why I moved here...

[ljbab728]

Just as a side note, many years ago some apartment complexes advertised themselves as "adult only". That's no longer allowed. There is no way to "choose who you live by". You may know what the demographics are when you move into an area but you have no control over how that might change. Most neighborhoods are in a constant state of change unless you live in some area like Gaillardia or the gated Oak Tree.

[betts]

Personally I don't care who lives downtown. I like seeing young groups of people, I like seeing people with strollers, people with kids and those whose kids are obviously out of the nest. To me, a true urban neighborhood appeals to everyone. The school where it is located will provide a powerful stimulus for SoSA redevelopment and, if the Boulevard can be created in a pedestrian friendly way, it will not be too far from Core to Shore.

[Rover]

The market will take care of itself. Most families don't want small downtown apartments as their family grows. But 20-30 somethings with a young child don't want to have to move to the suburbs when they have built their life in an area. The average size of the family downtown will probably be much smaller than the suburbs anyway. The way this would be different is if the 20-30s group won't pay for being downtown and the rents fall to a level that makes it attractive to families. Trust me, families with small kids don't want to live next to loud, drunk barely more than teenagers any more than they want to live next to screaming kids. (See, stereotypes go both ways.)

[Architect2010]

Also, Emerson is not an elementary school. It's actually a mid-high for, correct me if I'm wrong, mostly teenage mothers and other at-risk children. Midtown isn't exactly the densest of areas either, so it doesn't surprise me that Emerson is bounded by vacant lots.

What part of downtown do you live in? I might have missed it if already been stated. Just curious.

[Steve]

Architect, I've been waiting for this inaccuracy to be pointed out. Emerson plays no role in this discussion. It is not an elementary, it is a high school. It is an alternative high school for pregnant teens and troubled youth. So I'm not sure how the lack of development around Emerson proves anything in terms of drawing families and development.

[HOT ROD]

I think what Pete and Rob are trying to say, is OKC is bloated with being a family city but severely lacks SOPHISTICATION. It seems everything/anything built or envisioned, has to have family values/orientation in OKC. Even OKC's 'sophisticated' restaurants and neighbourhoods have kids screaming and families disciplining/yelling, so on.

I like kids and agree they will be most places, but OKC over does this - making EVERYTHING a family attraction of sorts. Most other big cities have sophisticated options (residences, restaurants, etc) that yuppies and the knowledge class singles frequent - OKC has little to NONE of this. However, there is a reason why - that's because OKC also doesn't have anyplace that is ultra expensive - most people want affordable options (including even OKC's single community. ...)..

Think of those NY/Chicago/SF places with the knowledge yuppies and their sophisticated congregation. No kids (or if there are, they are well dressed/behaved) but also those places are sky high expensive, in general too. This is OFTEN what people mean when they say OKC has 'nothing to do' or is 'too small' or 'boring', there's not much for the urban/sophisticated or hip society. (and likely is what Barkley meant when he said "'there's no reason for black people to come to OKC. ... there's nothing to do"')

So what we need, is dont take offense to this - but instead realize that OKC needs to develop sky high offerings and yuppies/singles in OKC need to support it. Hopefully, the NBA players/team will help contribute to the creation of and supporting such urban attractions as they are the target market.

[Rover]

I think what Pete and Rob are trying to say, is OKC is bloated with being a family city but severely lacks SOPHISTICATION. It seems everything/anything built or envisioned, has to have family values/orientation in OKC. Even OKC's 'sophisticated' restaurants and neighbourhoods have kids screaming and families disciplining/yelling, so on.

I like kids and agree they will be most places, but OKC over does this - making EVERYTHING a family attraction of sorts. Most other big cities have sophisticated options (residences, restaurants, etc) that yuppies and the knowledge class singles frequent - OKC has little to NONE of this. However, there is a reason why - that's because OKC also doesn't have anyplace that is ultra expensive - most people want affordable options (including even OKC's single community. ...)..

Think of those NY/Chicago/SF places with the knowledge yuppies and their sophisticated congregation. No kids (or if there are, they are well dressed/behaved) but also those places are sky high expensive, in general too. This is OFTEN what people mean when they say OKC has 'nothing to do' or is 'too small' or 'boring', there's not much for the urban/sophisticated or hip society. (and likely is what Barkley meant when he said "'there's no reason for black people to come to OKC. ... there's nothing to do"')

So what we need, is dont take offense to this - but instead realize that OKC needs to develop sky high offerings and yuppies/singles in OKC need to support it. Hopefully, the NBA players/team will help contribute to the creation of and supporting such urban attractions as they are the target market.

I don't know where you go to find "sophisticated" restaurants in OKC, but I go to many which don't have "family appeal". Try the Coachhouse, Metro, Boulevard, Red, Museum Cafe, the Ranch, Michaels, Opus, Signature, Trattoria Il Centro, Cheevers, The Mantle, Mickey Mantles, etc. I rarely see families eating there and I can't remember the last time I heard a crying kid there. I rarely see them at 1492, Cafe Brazil and others less expensive than the first I mentioned. Or even at the Pub, Republic after 5pm, or 109 Degrees. There are many many restaurants here that don't cater to families. But they aren't drinking bars and disco's, if that is what you call "sophisticated". And I will also tell you, in "sophisticated" cities like NYC, there are kids that go with their families to most restaurants too. What you describe is a singles only party district.

BTW, your comment on black people in OKC is WAY off base. Everywhere I go I see diversity and people of all races are welcome. Don't know where you go though. OKC is very friendly.

So, get all your uber cool yuppie/singles to go either start a few places or support those places by spending $. Then it will happen the way you want. Otherwise the singles crowd hasn't shown it can build and support anything here.

[HOT ROD]

i didn't say OKC was unfriendly or unaccepting and I am very aware that OKC is not a racist/separatist city. I also didn't say that OKC didn't have restaurants or nightspots that dont cator to families nor did I say that NYC/Chicago dont have kids go to sophisticated places.

I said OKC has a lack of unsophisticated places for young urban professionals and that the GENERAL development philosophy in OKC is family oriented/kid friendly first and inexpensive/buffet even more first. I also said that it is 'common' around the nation/world for OKC to be first perceived as 'boring' and that Charles Barkley said OKC was not a place for black people. ...

Most 'sophisticated' urban places are not where you really go to eat or even drink, you go to SEE and BE SEEN. OKC doesn't really have any of this type of place yet, with Red Prime and the Skirvin Red Piano bar arguably making an attempt. When OKC can develop a neighbourhood (downtown) that has 4 of these type establishments (dance club, upper end restaurant, bar, and lounge - would all complement each other/be successful) - then OKC will finally be considered a happening town and get more praise from those from bigger cities.

I do agree that the uber 20's crowd needs to support businesses that offer this kind of environment, however there needs to be a push to bring it forward too. Its a chicken and egg situation, hopefully OKC's NBA community can help resolve - I see AAlley making huge strides to being this neighbourhood and hope the momentum continues.

[Steve]

Hot Rod, I know it's difficult to track everything being out of state... but things are changing pretty rapidly and your conclusions, while once justified, may need to be reconsidered.

[Rover]

i didn't say OKC was unfriendly or unaccepting and I am very aware that OKC is not a racist/separatist city. I also didn't say that OKC didn't have restaurants or nightspots that dont cator to families nor did I say that NYC/Chicago dont have kids go to sophisticated places.

I said OKC has a lack of unsophisticated places for young urban professionals and that the GENERAL development philosophy in OKC is family oriented/kid friendly first and inexpensive/buffet even more first. I also said that it is 'common' around the nation/world for OKC to be first perceived as 'boring' and that Charles Barkley said OKC was not a place for black people. ...

Most 'sophisticated' urban places are not where you really go to eat or even drink, you go to SEE and BE SEEN. OKC doesn't really have any of this type of place yet, with Red Prime and the Skirvin Red Piano bar arguably making an attempt. When OKC can develop a neighbourhood (downtown) that has 4 of these type establishments (dance club, upper end restaurant, bar, and lounge - would all complement each other/be successful) - then OKC will finally be considered a happening town and get more praise from those from bigger cities.

I do agree that the uber 20's crowd needs to support businesses that offer this kind of environment, however there needs to be a push to bring it forward too. Its a chicken and egg situation, hopefully OKC's NBA community can help resolve - I see AAlley making huge strides to being this neighbourhood and hope the momentum continues.

I think your use of the term "sophisticated" is misplaced. 20-30 something narcicists clubs are not "sophisticated". They may define "cool" nightlife and may be a desired tile in the mosaic, but it is generally a result of financial successes among young professionals with time and money. OKC's 20-30s somethings need to first start some enterprises and be successful, and then go spend the money and/or open or invest in the kinds of places you want. The investments the Flaming Lips group is doing is what I am talking about. A few others need to step up. You can't just rely on those same people you tend to despise to open the places you want. If you go to Miami, Vegas, Atlanta, Dallas, the cool clubs are owned by young hip owners. You want the city to provide you that ambiance here, but it isn't the city that needs to do it. It is people like YOU who need to do it. Your group needs to show what is hip by investing in it here.

[HOT ROD]

Steve, aint it the truth - You guys will be SO SURPRISED if you ever come to China... This country is really leaving the US in the dust in many ways - development/planning wise. ....

I know this is off topic a little - but allow me to respond/explain what Im talking about, since Rover and others (who supposedly live(d) in NY don't understand what Im talking about OKC lacking but would be a huge improvement):

ok, let me put it a way you can understand. Does OKC have any clubs or restaurants that would be worthy of a block in New York or Chicago?

Most big cities have at least a neighbourhood with some chic, sophisticated venues. A must go to place of that city, where you go to be seen, and often pay for it. A place/district where people dress up, and feel good about themselves and those around them. This is where OKC is lacking, and why everybody from bigger cities often say OKC is boring. Fact is fact.

Im not saying OKC needs to be like other big cities, but I am saying that OKC will be even more attractive to a demographic it is trying to attract, by encouraging sophisticated development (and I don't mean good ole boy social clubs either).

I do agree that the young people of OKC need to embrace it, we are speaking the same there. But OKC leaders also need to 'encourage' it, just like they do with Bricktown 'Family' venues. .... that's my point.

[capt_john_97]

I havent been through all 7 pages of this thread but can someone tell me where the proposed sites are? As for schools near the downtown area. Emerson is closing. Dunbar already closed. Wilson is over capacity and OKC Schools is putting 6th graders back in the elementarys. Wilson is a charter but really cant take on more kids they dont have the space while Edgemere just to the north has tiny little class sizes. I would have to look at the OKC schools map to see what other schools are in the area. I know there are several sites being considered. I am guessing from what I have heard that the proposed site is at Sheridan/Walker?

[BoulderSooner]

emerson is the alt high school and it is not closing

[Rover]

Steve, aint it the truth - You guys will be SO SURPRISED if you ever come to China... This country is really leaving the US in the dust in many ways - development/planning wise. ....

I know this is off topic a little - but allow me to respond/explain what Im talking about, since Rover and others (who supposedly live(d) in NY don't understand what Im talking about OKC lacking but would be a huge improvement):

ok, let me put it a way you can understand. Does OKC have any clubs or restaurants that would be worthy of a block in New York or Chicago?

Most big cities have at least a neighbourhood with some chic, sophisticated venues. A must go to place of that city, where you go to be seen, and often pay for it. A place/district where people dress up, and feel good about themselves and those around them. This is where OKC is lacking, and why everybody from bigger cities often say OKC is boring. Fact is fact.

Im not saying OKC needs to be like other big cities, but I am saying that OKC will be even more attractive to a demographic it is trying to attract, by encouraging sophisticated development (and I don't mean good ole boy social clubs either).

I do agree that the young people of OKC need to embrace it, we are speaking the same there. But OKC leaders also need to 'encourage' it, just like they do with Bricktown 'Family' venues. .... that's my point.

Just curious why you think it is the city's responsibility. There is nothing the city is doing to discourage what you are talking about. Putting a school downtown isn't what is prohibiting the city from having a Miami type night life. Investors will open what you describe as soon as it is shown that the hip urban kids will spend what it takes. If they are looking for cheap jello shots and sliders, it isn't going to get a great club built.

I've spent some time in China. I wouldn't say they are leaving the US in the dust, but there are some interesting developments there. Of course, it helps to have 1.5 billion people and a government who will kill its people if it has to in order to get what it wants done.

Now, back to the elementary school discussion...

[HOT ROD]

one point to respond - you must not have gone to the China Im IN or it must have been years ago (say 1990's/early 2000s or before) in order for you to make that statement. TODAY (and for at least the last 5-10 years), China is leaving the US in the dust, and if you didn't see it - then you are in denial or blind. "Interesting developments" is an understatement - just look at the skyline/infrastructure of ANY city in China, not just Shanghai and Beijing.

And don't get started with that bs about govt killing ITS people. Truth is, the CCCP is not from the people of China; but they are spending right and left on civic projects (and even tons of 'private'/public developments - as in skyscrapers, both commercial and residential) everywhere at a scale that blows away ANYTHING the US has ever done, to placate the people so they stay in power. ....

[BoulderSooner]

one point to respond - you must not have gone to the China Im IN or it must have been years ago (say 1990's/early 2000s or before) in order for you to make that statement. TODAY (and for at least the last 5-10 years), China is leaving the US in the dust, and if you didn't see it - then you are in denial or blind. "Interesting developments" is an understatement - just look at the skyline/infrastructure of ANY city in China, not just Shanghai and Beijing.

And don't get started with that bs about govt killing ITS people. Truth is, the CCCP is not from the people of China; but they are spending right and left on civic projects (and even tons of 'private'/public developments - as in skyscrapers, both commercial and residential) everywhere at a scale that blows away ANYTHING the US has ever done, to placate the people so they stay in power. ....

your thoughts on china are interesting when half the country lives in shambles and poverty

[Rover]

one point to respond - you must not have gone to the China Im IN or it must have been years ago (say 1990's/early 2000s or before) in order for you to make that statement. TODAY (and for at least the last 5-10 years), China is leaving the US in the dust, and if you didn't see it - then you are in denial or blind. "Interesting developments" is an understatement - just look at the skyline/infrastructure of ANY city in China, not just Shanghai and Beijing.

And don't get started with that bs about govt killing ITS people. Truth is, the CCCP is not from the people of China; but they are spending right and left on civic projects (and even tons of 'private'/public developments - as in skyscrapers, both commercial and residential) everywhere at a scale that blows away ANYTHING the US has ever done, to placate the people so they stay in power. ....

Interesting to hear your support for the Chinese government and how they have been able to do what they are doing. I have a little different take, but to each their own. Glad you have found a country you can support and be proud of. I still prefer our capitalistic way. (Oh, and I have actually worked on some of those projects you adore.)

[dankrutka]

Did someone just defend the Vhinese government? Lol. Their human rights violations are off the charts... They are fascists.

[mrktguy29]

The Oklahoma City MAPS Trust Monday approved a final site for the new 11-million dollar elementary school to be built in downtown Oklahoma City. The approved site is a vacant lot on the southwest corner of Sheridan and Walker Avenues. "It may not have been the sentimental favorite," said TAP architect Anthony McDermid, "but it certainly became the clear winner in terms of applying the criteria." The other two sites under consideration were the old Central High School building at 817 N. Robinson and the Sheridan Century Center at Main and Broadway.

Read more: http://www.ktok.com/cc-common/news/s...#ixzz1QXFjxUFm