6 months later.

[Larry OKC]

Am a little fuzzy on this but isn't the money that goes to the Chamber/CVB from the voter approved Hotel/Motel tax? Or are these funds on top of the tax?

I would have just as much problem if they took money from that dedicated tax and diverted it to something else (as they appear to have done with the 3/4 public safety tax to the tune of $18M/year (mol) for at least the past 8 years.

[barnold]

Evidently, not all money going to the chamber comes from the Hotel/Motel tax. Several entries coming directly from the cities general revenue fund to the Urban Development Trust, which in turn pays the Chambers travel and expenses. It's that long money trail they seem to try and disguise.
As to the 18M/year (mol) out of the 3/4 PST, we the taxpayers have been informed that we should hire a PR firm to voice our disgruntlement in this matter.

[Mikemarsh51]

I just wanted to say how nice the city is. In the FD negotiations, the city is offering us $1000.00 less per person for health insurance than every other city employee. You have to wonder where we rate with the city.

[rcjunkie]

I just wanted to say how nice the city is. In the FD negotiations, the city is offering us $1000.00 less per person for health insurance than every other city employee. You have to wonder where we rate with the city.

You should explain the reason for the difference's !!. It has to do with the FD not participating in the same insurance plan/program as the rest of the City employees.

[lump9816]

So our membership has a trust that administers our insurance benefits, so what? We are all city employees, we all get the same amount of sick leave, vacation and so on. Why should we settle for less than all other city employees?

[rcjunkie]

So our membership has a trust that administers our insurance benefits, so what? We are all city employees, we all get the same amount of sick leave, vacation and so on. Why should we settle for less than all other city employees?

Because, when the Fire Department decided to pull out of the insurance group the rest of the City Employees are in, the rates increased due to fewer employee participation. So it's only fair that Fire employees pay a larger percentage.

[Mikemarsh51]

As part of a new policy to completely ignore RCjunkie I will fail this once. Junkie, your a vindictive person arent you? You basically have a management is right no matter what attitude. The FD left the city insurance pool when we figured out we could do a better job with the same amount of money. We assesed each member a certain amount to build our trust. We collected somewhere around 10 milion dollars, and our system works. Proven by the fact that the city switched to the same style of system.

I am floored that you think we should pay more, simply because we found a better way to operate. Further proving you hate firefighters.

[rcjunkie]

As part of a new policy to completely ignore RCjunkie I will fail this once. Junkie, your a vindictive person arent you? You basically have a management is right no matter what attitude. The FD left the city insurance pool when we figured out we could do a better job with the same amount of money. We assesed each member a certain amount to build our trust. We collected somewhere around 10 milion dollars, and our system works. Proven by the fact that the city switched to the same style of system.

I am floored that you think we should pay more, simply because we found a better way to operate. Further proving you hate firefighters.

Wrong, once again, I have much respect for all Public Safety Employees, (just ask the 7 firefighters I'm related to, and several very close friends that are fire fighters) but when the Fire Department chose to leave the Insurance Program/System other City employees used, it caused a sharp increase in rates.

As far as ignoring me, please do, I get sick of your self promoting, woe is me attitude.

[barnold]

RC,
Yes the FD did pull out of the city sponsored insurance because we felt like it could be done more efficiently and with less of a cost to the membership while still providing greater coverage. It was done after extensive studies of the how much each department was costing the insurance "pool" within the city. Know what we found out? The FD cost the least of all departments when it came to health care coverage! Guess which one costs the city the most for claims and has the least amount of personnel? Management employees! I'm not sure how you see it as a woe is me attitude. We took a failing health coverage plan provided by the city, invested the money in our own health plan and are so much better for doing so.

[rcjunkie]

RC,
Yes the FD did pull out of the city sponsored insurance because we felt like it could be done more efficiently and with less of a cost to the membership while still providing greater coverage. It was done after extensive studies of the how much each department was costing the insurance "pool" within the city. Know what we found out? The FD cost the least of all departments when it came to health care coverage! Guess which one costs the city the most for claims and has the least amount of personnel? Management employees! I'm not sure how you see it as a woe is me attitude. We took a failing health coverage plan provided by the city, invested the money in our own health plan and are so much better for doing so.

Further proof that you need to broaden your knowledge, as a management employee, I was offered and had the same insurance choices/options as AFSCM employees.

[andy157]

barnold it's pretty obvious he didn't understand what you were saying. You may want to try one more time to explain your point. If so, you may want to explain it a little slower.

[rcjunkie]

barnold it's pretty obvious he didn't understand what you were saying. You may want to try one more time to explain your point. If so, you may want to explain it a little slower.

Wrong again!

[Wambo36]

Because, when the Fire Department decided to pull out of the insurance group the rest of the City Employees are in, the rates increased due to fewer employee participation. So it's only fair that Fire employees pay a larger percentage.

Proving once again that no matter how long you worked in "management", without using some critical evaluation of your own, you were just swallowing what they were feeding you. This is going to be a little lengthy, and it's going to be completely opposite of what you're being fed by the city, but try to read it all. You'll learn something.

When the FD negotiated their insurance benefits away from the city we were told at the time, by the people setting up our insurance trust, that as a deptartment we were holding down cost for the city because we used the insurance benefits less than any other departments. They couldn't believe the city would be willing to let us strike out on our own to find better rates and coverage for this reason.

As far as the rates for the other employees going up, that's because the other departments used more benefits per employee than we did. When we left the pool the amount of insurance usage per employee went up. It had nothing to do with making the group smaller. If that was the case how could the FD get better rates with as small a group as they had? We tried to explain this to the city but they displayed the same negotiating genius that they always do when confronted with the facts and numbers. They dared us to find a better deal. Now, they are more than a little pissed that we did exactly what we told them we were going to do and are trying to punish us through lessening the amount payed to us as opposed to every other city employee. What a suprise.

As far as the point barnold was trying to make, the city insurance usage can be broken up into groups so as to figure out who is using more benefits. Probably so they could charge that group more for driving up the cost for everyone else. They found that it was Management using the most insurance benefits per employee. I can't wait to see the proposal where they ask to raise their own insurance rates to reflect this.

[rcjunkie]

Proving once again that no matter how long you worked in "management", without using some critical evaluation of your own, you were just swallowing what they were feeding you. This is going to be a little lengthy, and it's going to be completely opposite of what you're being fed by the city, but try to read it all. You'll learn something.

When the FD negotiated their insurance benefits away from the city we were told at the time, by the people setting up our insurance trust, that as a deptartment we were holding down cost for the city because we used the insurance benefits less than any other departments. They couldn't believe the city would be willing to let us strike out on our own to find better rates and coverage for this reason.

As far as the rates for the other employees going up, that's because the other departments used more benefits per employee than we did. When we left the pool the amount of insurance usage per employee went up. It had nothing to do with making the group smaller. If that was the case how could the FD get better rates with as small a group as they had? We tried to explain this to the city but they displayed the same negotiating genius that they always do when confronted with the facts and numbers. They dared us to find a better deal. Now, they are more than a little pissed that we did exactly what we told them we were going to do and are trying to punish us through lessening the amount payed to us as opposed to every other city employee. What a suprise.

As far as the point barnold was trying to make, the city insurance usage can be broken up into groups so as to figure out who is using more benefits. Probably so they could charge that group more for driving up the cost for everyone else. They found that it was Management using the most insurance benefits per employee. I can't wait to see the proposal where they ask to raise their own insurance rates to reflect this.

And you believe what the insurance people tell you---amazing. I think I'm right, you (firefighters) think your right, I call a truce, I'm tired of wasting my time and I have a long bike ride ahead of me.

[Wambo36]

And you believe what the insurance people tell you---amazing. I think I'm right, you (firefighters) think your right, I call a truce, I'm tired of wasting my time and I have a long bike ride ahead of me.

No that's the difference between you and me. I look at what I was told would happen, what actually happened and what the results were and then make my observances from that. You, on the other hand, seem to believe without question, anything fed to you from city hall.

You breezed by the question (big suprise!) of why the FD could find better rates and coverage with a relatively small group of employees, why would the rates for the rest of the city go up? I know the story you got from your bosses doesn't jive with what's actually transpired. They choose to demonize the FD so as to further splinter the employee groups. I gave you some facts to chew on, but that would take a leap of faith on your part that everything you've been told by city hall is not always factual. A little research and critical evaluation could help you out, but hey, enjoy the ride.

[andy157]

Wrong again!

Wrong again

[barnold]

And you believe what the insurance people tell you---amazing. I think I'm right, you (firefighters) think your right, I call a truce, I'm tired of wasting my time and I have a long bike ride ahead of me.

RC,
Actually the numbers of insurance usage came from the city sponsored insurance provider. And as andy has pointed out, wrong again. Enjoy the bike ride.

[andy157]

It is obvious to see that the OKC Parks Department promotes using the Peter Principle when selecting its management employees.

[rcjunkie]

It is obvious to see that the OKC Parks Department promotes using the Peter Principle when selecting its management employees.

Andy157, I have a question, are you really an idiot, or do you just play one on the Internet.

[Wambo36]

That's what you've got?

How about attempting to answer the question about the insurance? Or, like all the other questions I've asked, are you suddenly going to go deaf and mute when it comes to an answer?

[Larry OKC]

Color me confused...

If the FD got better rates and better insurance by going with their own policy pool, doesn't that mean their premiums are lower? Wouldn't it make since to reimburse the employees at the lower rate (actual cost)? They are still getting the insurance paid for (or at least the same percentage), right?

I had a similar situation at work. I worked a 4 day week, 10 hour day. Yet when it came to Holiday pay, I wouldn't get paid for a complete shift (only get paid for 8 hours instead of 10). Was told that it wouldn't be fair to everyone else if I got paid for those 2 hours and they didn't. I pointed out that they are getting paid for their scheduled shift hours, just as I should. If I worked a 6 day week (6.66 hrs/day) I wouldn't expect to get paid for a full 8 hours, just the amount of my shift. In order for the 5 day/8 hr/day person to get a full paycheck, they had to do nothing. If I wanted to get a full paycheck, I had to work an extra two hours to come out even.

[rcjunkie]

That's what you've got?

How about attempting to answer the question about the insurance? Or, like all the other questions I've asked, are you suddenly going to go deaf and mute when it comes to an answer?

Maybe if you had an intelligent question, they would get answered, all you, Andy and mike want to do is argue--sorry, but for me, third grade was years ago.

[rcjunkie]

Color me confused...

If the FD got better rates and better insurance by going with their own policy pool, doesn't that mean their premiums are lower? Wouldn't it make since to reimburse the employees at the lower rate (actual cost)? They are still getting the insurance paid for (or at least the same percentage), right?

I had a similar situation at work. I worked a 4 day week, 10 hour day. Yet when it came to Holiday pay, I wouldn't get paid for a complete shift (only get paid for 8 hours instead of 10). Was told that it wouldn't be fair to everyone else if I got paid for those 2 hours and they didn't. I pointed out that they are getting paid for their scheduled shift hours, just as I should. If I worked a 6 day week (6.66 hrs/day) I wouldn't expect to get paid for a full 8 hours, just the amount of my shift. In order for the 5 day/8 hr/day person to get a full paycheck, they had to do nothing. If I wanted to get a full paycheck, I had to work an extra two hours to come out even.

Your pissing in the wind my friend, they don't want logic or reason, they are dead set on self-promoting, no matter how distorted their information is.

[bombermwc]

Well so much for arguing the points...i guess we're all back to name calling now. Great thread...NOT

[rcjunkie]

Well so much for arguing the points...i guess we're all back to name calling now. Great thread...NOT

Thats how the firefighters roll, disagree with them on anything city related and the sharpend nails come out, I shouldn't fall for their childish behavior, but I will defend myself and fire back.