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Thread: Self defense - Racist style

  1. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by Karried View Post
    NewsOK

    Do you think Oklahoma County DA David Prater made the correct decision in filing charges against Jerome Ersland?


    Yes 19% (376 votes)

    No 81% (1629 votes)

    Total Votes: 2005
    It appears the tide has turned on this vote. I agree that the DA made the correct decision to file charges. The incident was over after the pharmacist shot the kid in the head and other other armed robber fled the store. I would think that the pharmacist was boiling in adrenaline and thought to himself this kid is gonna pay whether he's already dead or alive. He played the role of executioner before a jury had the chance to decide the kid's fate.

    I tried to put myself in this situation. If an armed robber broke into my house and I shot him before he shot me, leaving him incapacitated and laying on the floor, and I decided to unload my gun before the cops arrived, I could see how an outside perspective or the DA would consider a charge against me. I don't know if I would go back and shoot 5 rounds in the guy to make sure he's dead or just wait and pray he doesn't get up. But I sure as hell would hope he wouldn't get away with it.

    If the pharmacist removed the perpetrator's weapon from the immediate area (which in this case the kid was not armed) as well as removed himself and staff from the area, a jury would decide the kid's sentence.

    Do you think Oklahoma County DA David Prater made the correct decision in filing charges against Jerome Ersland?

    Yes 82% (23019 votes)

    No 18% (4989 votes)


    Total Votes: 28,008

    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-phar...rticle/3372941

  2. #177

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Oh yeah, it is clear what the public sentiment is. I don't think it is because of a misunderstanding of the law or because the public believes there is more evidence out there that will show that the guy who was on the ground really did have a weapon and was attempting to use it again at the end of the video... instead I think it is because most Oklahomans think if you're attacked in this manner you should have a right to flat out execute everyone involved.

    I think most Oklahomans should take this incident as a warning and realize that if they're attacked this doesn't mean they are given free reign and should probably familiarize themselves with what the law says so that they can avoid something like this if it should ever happen to them....

  3. #178

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post

    Do you think Oklahoma County DA David Prater made the correct decision in filing charges against Jerome Ersland?


    Yes 19% (376 votes)

    No 81% (1629 votes)

    Total Votes: 2005

    Do you think Oklahoma County DA David Prater made the correct decision in filing charges against Jerome Ersland?

    Yes 82% (23019 votes)

    No 18% (4989 votes)


    Total Votes: 28,008

    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-phar...rticle/3372941
    Its strange how the vote (apparently) flipped from 81%-No to almost the same exact %, 82%-Yes. It makes me think they have the numbers accidently reversed on their poll. However, if one of you can tell me you noticed the vote at say 5,000 or 10,000 or 20,000 votes and it was in the process of going from one extreme to the other, I'll take your word for that.

    Another UN-scientific poll is at KFOR-TV. You may have to actually vote to make the totals show up but it shows right now as:

    Rant Poll
    An OKC pharmacist is facing murder charges for going back and shooting a robbery suspect five times after he had already shot him in the head. Is the D-A right or was the pharmacist justified?

    D-A is right. (361 responses)
    34.2%

    Pharmacist was justified (653 responses)
    61.9%

    Don't really know (41 responses)
    3.9%
    1055 total responses

    (Results not scientific)


    Rant Poll - KFOR

  4. #179

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Do you think Oklahoma County DA David Prater made the correct decision in filing charges against Jerome Ersland?

    Yes 82% (23019 votes)

    No 18% (4989 votes)


    Total Votes: 28,008

    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-phar...rticle/3372941
    Since you posted that poll, it now says:
    Yes 82% (23030 votes)No 18% (5059 votes)
    Total Votes: 28089


    That means since you last posted the poll results, the change is:

    Yes 11 votes
    No 70 votes

    This convinces me they reversed the numbers by mistake and the 'No' votes are really still the same solid 80% on whether to prosecute or not.

  5. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Tex, I am now looking at Oklahomans in a much different picture.

  6. #181

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    This story just gets worse. The Oklahoman reports that those kids were with a 31 year old adult male who was driving the get away car. The adult got out of prison last summer and had served 12 - 13 years for robbery and kidnapping. He was driving a stolen car. The car was stolen about week before and the moron was apparently still driving it.

    Where are these kids' dads? Why in the name of god were they being allowed to run with a thirty something year old man who CLEARLY sent those kids in so THEY would be the ones in trouble if it hit the fan. I do not know how these parents can have the audacity to protest that this is racist when they aren't taking care of business in their own families. It is easier to blame faceless others than to straighten out their own homelife. If they want to be mad at someone, they ought to start with this adult career criminal who used those kids to continue his crime spree.

  7. #182

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    The more I read about this story the angrier I get at the senselessness of it. I just want to slap (not really) the mother of the surviving teen robber. I KNOW she is worried as any mother would, but I think she is just a flat out crappy parent. She "loves" her son but she couldn't make a good decision to save her soul. She lies for him - and thinks that is just part of being a parent. She is utterly clueless about parenting and her responsibilities to the rest of us.

    She blames others for his actions and to a point, I can see it. But she has some control over who this kid hangs with. Or she should. If she doesn't, who the hell does? Because she didn't have control over her child, other people DIED. Other people's lives are ruined. She is not the only one at fault but she is a big part of it.

    Parents like her have kids they aren't prepared to parent, they let them run wild, then look around, wide eyed asking, "What happened? I never thought this would happen!" You could see this happening five years down the road.

    She worries about losing him to the state of Oklahoma when she should have been concentrating on not losing him to the street. She LOST him to the street before he ever pulled on a mask and walked into that place. It is too late at this point to wring her hands. Kids are savages if they aren't civilized. Hell, we confine pitbulls. But no one was confining this little thug running around out there with a gun and opposable thumbs. I am going out on a limb here but I am willing to bet this kid has been been pretty much running the street for a couple of years. Where did he meet this criminal adult that led him astray? I'm betting mom's hook-up. Or someone he runs with on a regular basis. She either brought that adult criminal into their home or sent her kid out to the street. Either way, crappy parenting.

    She says he is "learning" from his mistakes. He hasn't learned squat. He is just freaked out that it went bad. And at this point, it isn't about him. When he picked up that gun and went into that store, society can't really be too worried about whether he learns or not. They need to be protected from that animal. Parents need to understand that if they want their kids to have a good life, they have to teach them to respect the rights of others to have good lives. When kids throw away consideration for others, they lose the right to have society care about them, too. That part of the contract seems lost on some people.

    I am so sorry this pharmacist's life is being ruined over this waste of humanity. And I am refering to the one who got away. Thanks, Mom. You did a real service to your community. If you want to blame someone, take a look in the mirror. Kids don't raise themselves and boys need dads. Maybe his dad is there and just not speaking up. Sounds like he hasn't been speaking up for awhile.

    Yes, I know this is sanctimonious. And probably unfair. But it steams me to see potential thrown away on stupid or nonexistent parenting. We all make mistakes as parents but this is a lifestyle mistake. I'm betting. This woman's instincts were to cover for him. He is out there with guns menacing total strangers to rob them and she is willing to protect him from his consequences. She has NO concept that she brought this child into the world and has a sacred trust to protect us from HIM. It is part of the parenthood contract.

    I repeat - where is this kid's dad? This woman has NO business bringing a child into this world and dropping him into society with no more help than she was giving him. Kids don't raise themselves. What a waste.

    Grrrr.

    From KOCO: Pharmacy Robbery Not Son's Idea, Mom Says - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City

    "My son made a mistake, and he is learning from this mistake," she said.

    She said that Ingram and Antwun Parker went into the store on May 19 and most likely planned to rob it. Pharmacist Jerome Ersland shot and killed Parker. Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder.

    "Antwun's mom lost her son," Spigner said. "I really feel if I don't fight for my son, I am going to lose him to the state of Oklahoma."

    She said she knew about her oldest son's involvement but didn't tell police.

    "He wanted to go downtown, but me, being a parent, I had to protect him," she said.

    She said that the robbery wasn't the boys' idea. She blames Emanuel Mitchell, who was charged Thursday with driving the getaway car. She said Mitchell and another man put the boys up to it, though police have not mentioned any other names.

    "When you have older men telling kids, 'We are going to do this and you are going to get some money,' they are going to listen," she said.

    She said her son has been traumatized by the whole ordeal.

    "He is 14 years old, and he ain't no monster," she said. "He never did none of this in his life."

    Jevontia Ingram will be in juvenile court on Friday. District Attorney David Prater will have to decide whether to charge him as an adult.

  8. #183

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Okie View Post
    "Antwun's mom lost her son," Spigner said. "I really feel if I don't fight for my son, I am going to lose him to the state of Oklahoma."
    Too late.

    21 O.S. 801: Any person or persons who, with the use of any firearms or any other dangerous weapons, whether the firearm is loaded or not, or who uses a blank or imitation firearm capable of raising in the mind of the one threatened with such device a fear that it is a real firearm, attempts to rob or robs any person or persons, or who robs or attempts to rob any place of business, residence or banking institution or any other place inhabited or attended by any person or persons at any time, either day or night, shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction therefor, shall suffer punishment by imprisonment for life in the State Penitentiary, or for a period of time not less than five (5) years, at the discretion of the court, or the jury trying the same.

  9. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Okie View Post

    Where are these kids' dads?
    Do you really have to ask that question? They very well might be in jail, too. Wherever they are, I'm sure they would be such great role models that these kids would have thought more than twice about....ah, who am I kidding, here?

    Frankly, it wouldn't shock me if the 31 year old driver of the getaway car put the kids up to it, offering them something in exchange. He might have told them it would be easy, that an old guy like that would be easy pickin's. That it's done all the time. That the kids would get a share, or some drugs that they could sell, or whatever.

    Totally speculating here, but when I read how old the getaway driver was, that was my first thought. Because these kids often come from broken homes, feeling like they have no way out, and are easily manipulated into a life of crime.
    Still corrupting young minds

  10. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Okie View Post
    The more I read about this story the angrier I get at the senselessness of it. I just want to slap (not really) the mother of the surviving teen robber. I KNOW she is worried as any mother would, but I think she is just a flat out crappy parent. She "loves" her son but she couldn't make a good decision to save her soul. She lies for him - and thinks that is just part of being a parent. She is utterly clueless about parenting and her responsibilities to the rest of us.

    She blames others for his actions and to a point, I can see it. But she has some control over who this kid hangs with. Or she should. If she doesn't, who the hell does? Because she didn't have control over her child, other people DIED. Other people's lives are ruined. She is not the only one at fault but she is a big part of it.

    Parents like her have kids they aren't prepared to parent, they let them run wild, then look around, wide eyed asking, "What happened? I never thought this would happen!" You could see this happening five years down the road.

    She worries about losing him to the state of Oklahoma when she should have been concentrating on not losing him to the street. She LOST him to the street before he ever pulled on a mask and walked into that place. It is too late at this point to wring her hands. Kids are savages if they aren't civilized. Hell, we confine pitbulls. But no one was confining this little thug running around out there with a gun and opposable thumbs. I am going out on a limb here but I am willing to bet this kid has been been pretty much running the street for a couple of years. Where did he meet this criminal adult that led him astray? I'm betting mom's hook-up. Or someone he runs with on a regular basis. She either brought that adult criminal into their home or sent her kid out to the street. Either way, crappy parenting.

    She says he is "learning" from his mistakes. He hasn't learned squat. He is just freaked out that it went bad. And at this point, it isn't about him. When he picked up that gun and went into that store, society can't really be too worried about whether he learns or not. They need to be protected from that animal. Parents need to understand that if they want their kids to have a good life, they have to teach them to respect the rights of others to have good lives. When kids throw away consideration for others, they lose the right to have society care about them, too. That part of the contract seems lost on some people.

    I am so sorry this pharmacist's life is being ruined over this waste of humanity. And I am refering to the one who got away. Thanks, Mom. You did a real service to your community. If you want to blame someone, take a look in the mirror. Kids don't raise themselves and boys need dads. Maybe his dad is there and just not speaking up. Sounds like he hasn't been speaking up for awhile.

    Yes, I know this is sanctimonious. And probably unfair. But it steams me to see potential thrown away on stupid or nonexistent parenting. We all make mistakes as parents but this is a lifestyle mistake. I'm betting. This woman's instincts were to cover for him. He is out there with guns menacing total strangers to rob them and she is willing to protect him from his consequences. She has NO concept that she brought this child into the world and has a sacred trust to protect us from HIM. It is part of the parenthood contract.

    I repeat - where is this kid's dad? This woman has NO business bringing a child into this world and dropping him into society with no more help than she was giving him. Kids don't raise themselves. What a waste.

    Grrrr.

    From KOCO: Pharmacy Robbery Not Son's Idea, Mom Says - Oklahoma City News Story - KOCO Oklahoma City

    "My son made a mistake, and he is learning from this mistake," she said.

    She said that Ingram and Antwun Parker went into the store on May 19 and most likely planned to rob it. Pharmacist Jerome Ersland shot and killed Parker. Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder.

    "Antwun's mom lost her son," Spigner said. "I really feel if I don't fight for my son, I am going to lose him to the state of Oklahoma."

    She said she knew about her oldest son's involvement but didn't tell police.

    "He wanted to go downtown, but me, being a parent, I had to protect him," she said.

    She said that the robbery wasn't the boys' idea. She blames Emanuel Mitchell, who was charged Thursday with driving the getaway car. She said Mitchell and another man put the boys up to it, though police have not mentioned any other names.

    "When you have older men telling kids, 'We are going to do this and you are going to get some money,' they are going to listen," she said.

    She said her son has been traumatized by the whole ordeal.

    "He is 14 years old, and he ain't no monster," she said. "He never did none of this in his life."

    Jevontia Ingram will be in juvenile court on Friday. District Attorney David Prater will have to decide whether to charge him as an adult.
    Excellent post!

  11. #186

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Not sure how excellent it was - more like a primal scream. I HATE seeing these kids tossed aside by parents. And maybe I am reading it wrong - dunno. One thing I didn't see in any of the interviews with mom was anything to the effect of, "Who IS this guy???? I never heard of him! What was he doing near my son!?"

    Oh, she knew him, all right. Knew he was a robber and a kidnapper and that her son was around him. And that her son would do that because he was promised money (her claim), tells me that like a lot of kids he hasn't been taught the difference between right and wrong and that he hasn't made the connection between working and income. She thinks stealing is something logical. And without the values aspect, I guess it is.

  12. #187

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    > I am so sorry this pharmacist's life is being ruined over
    > this waste of humanity.

    Not defending the lads who, by intent or trick, were stupid enough to get involved in the attempted heist. However, based on the information released, the pharmacist carries 98% of his own misfortune when it comes to any ruin in his life.

    Sure, he might of had some nightmares if the head shot had left the one lad DRT.
    He might have had some depression over a brush with death, provided of course there actually was a shot fired in his direction, and thus far that remains less than clear.

    But the decision to later fire the kill shot via multiple rounds center mass, that decision is his, and his alone.

    Can it be mitigated down from its charged level of premeditated intent? Sure, and he's hired a counsel well known for reaching out and bringing parties to an acceptable middle ground. There are others better known for their pitbull approach to courthouse cage matches if that were the overall plan,

    However, that the young robbers, and the adult who apparently guided them, were flat wrong in their conduct doesn't turn his kill shot conduct into anything beyond what it was, a bad decision by the pharmacist, one selected from several options available to him after the immediate threat had subsided. I know some think Prater is an idiot, but I don't share that sentiment.

    As noted before, I don't believe for a second there will be a trial, but I do believe in the end there will be justice. And in the end, there will be folks at both extremes who are not satisfied with the result. There usually are when something is negotiated toward the middle ground.

  13. #188

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    I believe that this is the Emanuel Mitchell in question. If so, a real class act.

  14. #189

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    I believe that this is the Emanuel Mitchell in question. If so, a real class act.
    Christ. As you say, a class act. This b*stard sent 14 and 16 year old boys in to do his dirty work. I don't give the kids a bye but they sure had more than their share of adults work them over.

  15. #190

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Okay, if the pharmacist did indeed go back in and shoot the kid to death when the kid was obviously no longer a threat, then the pharmacist should be tried for SOMETHING.

    But forgive me for not crying over the dead kid.

  16. #191

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Question for Midtowner, other local legal experts:

    Does Oklahoma law allow for either of the other perpetrators to be charged with "accessory to murder."

    When I lived in Florida it seems there was a big case about this

    Two perps (1 armed, 1 unarmed) entered a home to rob it. Perp 1 was shot & killed by homeowner. Perp. 2 fled, but was later caught by police. As I recall, he was tried for breaking/entering as well as accessory to murder.

  17. #192

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    I don't think that crime would work. The sort of murder which is usually charged in conjunction with robbery is a felony murder. A felony murder occurs anytime someone kills someone else in the commission of a violent felony -- usually burglary, assault, rape, arson or kidnapping. An exception to felony murder, however, is that you can't be charged for the death of an accomplice.

    To illustrate, if instead of the robber being killed here, the robbers killed one of the ladies in the store or the pharmacist, all three would be guilty of felony murder, but like I said, that doesn't work here.

    I was actually thinking that the 31 year old, depending on his involvement, if he cajoled them into this act and it was all his idea, ought to have some sort of exposure in excess of 5 years in prison.

    I'm not a big Oklahoma Criminal Law expert, so if someone reading this is, feel free to correct me. I am, (since I'm in the middle of studying for the Bar Exam) somewhat proficient on crimes at common law, i.e., stuff that would have been a crime in 13th century England.

    There is a theory of murder liability called "depraved heart" murder. In Oklahoma, I believe that it's a species of Second Degree Murder. The Second Degree Murder statute (21 O.S. 701.8) reads as follows:

    Homicide is murder in the second degree in the following cases:

    1. When perpetrated by an act imminently dangerous to another person and evincing a depraved mind, regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual; or
    Depending on how far this other 31-year-old individual went to create this dangerous situation, convincing a couple of teenagers to rob a store for him, I think his actions more than likely fit the elements of second-degree murder. To charge the younger kid with that crime would be a stretch. Felony murder obviously doesn't work, not even the lesser species because of the co-felon exception, but that, I don't think, has to be the end of the story.

  18. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Good question, FritterGirl. I'd like for the DA to go crazy on the charges aganist this kid and press for maximum allowed prison sentence. I'm not sure on accessory to murder, but maybe manslaughter can be filed.

    If the DA goes easy on the kid, then that makes him a much more worse DA.

  19. #194

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Maybe Jevontia was just trying to help out his momma, whom it looks like just lost her house --- (assuming this is her)

    >OCIS Case Summary for SC-2009-8620- Kalidy Homes Llc v. Natasha Spigner (Oklahoma County District Courts)

  20. #195

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    ECO, I agree. The whole thing is just very sad. Kind of makes me sick in my stomach to think about it. Have to wonder how far in denial the thugs parents are in for them to make the statements they have in the media... so sad that the victim's life is now in such turmoil due to his response....

  21. #196

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by nighttrain12 View Post
    Since you posted that poll, it now says:
    Yes 82% (23030 votes)No 18% (5059 votes)
    Total Votes: 28089


    That means since you last posted the poll results, the change is:

    Yes 11 votes
    No 70 votes

    This convinces me they reversed the numbers by mistake and the 'No' votes are really still the same solid 80% on whether to prosecute or not.
    I know this poll is UN-scientific but something is really acting screwy about it today. Earlier today it was YES-23124, NO-5382, which means the NO votes were still increasing at about a 80% rate. However, I checked back just now and it says YES-34425, NO-5404. I can just hit refresh on that screen and it increases the YES votes about 100 votes and 0 for the NO's. It appears now someone has hacked into it and is running up the YES votes.

  22. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    went up about 2 minutes ago on newsok.com:

    "Prosecutors today charged two adults and a 14-year-old boy with first-degree murder in connection with the death of a teen killed in a May 19 robbery attempt."
    link

  23. #198

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Oklahoma County District Attorney David Prater initially said he would not charge anyone but Ersland in connection with Parker's death because it was the result of Ersland's actions, not the robbery try.

    He said he reconsidered after researching the law.

    How could he not know that already? Maybe he needs to research the law some more and lessen the charges against Ersland.

  24. Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzytoad View Post
    went up about 2 minutes ago on newsok.com:

    "Prosecutors today charged two adults and a 14-year-old boy with first-degree murder in connection with the death of a teen killed in a May 19 robbery attempt."
    link
    This case is getting crazier all the time! It's going to be more compelling than the O.J. trial.

  25. #200

    Default Re: Self defense - Racist style

    The second adult is 42 years old. Jesus Christ on a cracker.

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