New OCU Law School (dead)

[ronronnie1]

I don't see why they made a big deal about moving there when they were totally not committed to doing so. Oh well.

[onthestrip]

I can't think of many things that reputation are more important to than law schools.

I guess its just that when I hear street cred I dont think of it pertaining to men in suits arguing in the court of law. Street cred might be a form of reputation but never thought of it to describe law schools.

[twade]

They tried to sell the new building when I visited there earlier in the year- glad I didn't take the bait. I hope they are able to funnel more money into faculty, or upgrade the library. They could lower tuition, but I think that might take away money from their generous scholarships. They throw around some crazy money...

[twade]

..

[twade]

I guess its just that when I hear street cred I dont think of it pertaining to men in suits arguing in the court of law. Street cred might be a form of reputation but never thought of it to describe law schools.

Then you have never read the US News and World Report Rankings. Applicants and schools alike obsess over that list- so much that the ABA lists the rankings as one reason law school tuition is skyrocketing. Law schools are in an arms race, either spend or be out spent.

[DirtLaw]

They tried to sell the new building when I visited there earlier in the year- glad I didn't take the bait. I hope they are able to funnel more money into faculty, or upgrade the library. They could lower tuition, but I think that might take away money from their generous scholarships. The throw around some crazy money...

Yea, the tuition is absolutely out of line with the quality of education and bar passage rates they are producing!!

[twade]

Yea, the tuition is absolutely out of line with the quality of education and bar passage rates they are producing!!

I may get flamed for this, but I believe that today's OCU serves two purposes:
1) Giving high-scoring applicants a free or nearly free legal education.
2) Providing a venue for those who want to go to law school at any cost.

OCU produces some fantastic attorneys, but it also lets in many who would be better served by not going to law school in the first place. Their debt load to career opportunity ratio is not in their favor, to put it nicely.

Don't get me wrong, some do get placed, and placed well at Hartzog, McAfee, and Crowe, but if your not in the top of your class your placement potential goes down exponentially for every mile you venture outside of the metro. However, to be fair, you can make a similar argument for OU- to a much lesser degree. Unless you're in the top 10-20% or a notable exception, don't expect many callbacks at big firms outside the state.

[Midtowner]

I may get flamed for this, but I believe that today's OCU serves two purposes:
1) Giving high-scoring applicants a free or nearly free legal education.
2) Providing a venue for those who want to go to law school at any cost.

OCU produces some fantastic attorneys, but it also lets in many who would be better served by not going to law school in the first place. Their debt load to career opportunity ratio is not in their favor, to put it nicely.

Don't get me wrong, some do get placed, and placed well at Hartzog, McAfee, and Crowe, but if your not in the top of your class your placement potential goes down exponentially for every mile you venture outside of the metro. However, to be fair, you can make a similar argument for OU- to a much lesser degree. Unless you're in the top 10-20% or a notable exception, don't expect many callbacks at big firms outside the state.

I'm a member of the class of '09 and I agree with that.

The debt load is ridiculous and not getting any better. I was fortunate enough to have a situation where I had a very well-compensated position right out of school guaranteed. My loans will be paid within 10 years. Most likely before. My classmates, at least those who aren't independently wealthy, are for the most part deferring and hoping for this federal government to produce some massive inflation to devalue their loans.

[DirtLaw]

I may get flamed for this, but I believe that today's OCU serves two purposes:
1) Giving high-scoring applicants a free or nearly free legal education.
2) Providing a venue for those who want to go to law school at any cost.

OCU produces some fantastic attorneys, but it also lets in many who would be better served by not going to law school in the first place. Their debt load to career opportunity ratio is not in their favor, to put it nicely.

Don't get me wrong, some do get placed, and placed well at Hartzog, McAfee, and Crowe, but if your not in the top of your class your placement potential goes down exponentially for every mile you venture outside of the metro. However, to be fair, you can make a similar argument for OU- to a much lesser degree. Unless you're in the top 10-20% or a notable exception, don't expect many callbacks at big firms outside the state.

I agree with some of what you said but not all. There are those like me who went there because I wanted to go there. They offer a night program that allowed me to work for two different judges and an internship at the city attys office which allowed me to make contacts for three and a half years that I would not have otherwise made ... all three of which I would likely not been able to do at OU since they do not have a night program. Also, I am a third generation OCU law grad which was important to me. I was fortunate enough to not have to take out student loans, and already had a job once I was out of school so going to OCU served me better than going to OU. I do agree that if you will be on student loans when you are in law school that that you have no business going to OCU because unless you graduate towards the very top of your class you might as well just assume you will die with some of the law school debt.

[onthestrip]

Then you have never read the US News and World Report Rankings. Applicants and schools alike obsess over that list- so much that the ABA lists the rankings as one reason law school tuition is skyrocketing. Law schools are in an arms race, either spend or be out spent.

Of course I have seen the rankings before and the tiers but in my mind, street cred isn't the best term to use. That's all I have to say, don't want this to be an argument about street cred/reputation.

[okyeah]

OCU's plans for a downtown law school was one of those things where I said I would believe it when I see it....

[PennyQuilts]

Henry definitely knows what he is doing. He is extremely bright and pragmatic. He will be excellent for the school.

Agreed. He is tuned in.

[PennyQuilts]

Well, and having the OKCU Law Library downtown and open to attorneys (as it is now if you sign in) would build a great rapport and connection between the legal community and the school as well. Having students alongside practicing attorneys would be cool. Not to mention the OKCU law library has a ton of great resources that the County Courthouse doesn't. (You don't need them much, but it's cool to have access.)

Well... most of the lawyers I see at librairies graduated before statehood.

[PennyQuilts]

I'm a member of the class of '09 and I agree with that.

The debt load is ridiculous and not getting any better. I was fortunate enough to have a situation where I had a very well-compensated position right out of school guaranteed. My loans will be paid within 10 years. Most likely before. My classmates, at least those who aren't independently wealthy, are for the most part deferring and hoping for this federal government to produce some massive inflation to devalue their loans.

I agree. I was one of the lucky ones who got an all but free ride and because of that, I feel obligated to donate back. It is the right thing to do. But as an alum, I counseled students who were burdened with horrible student debts and it was enough to keep me awake nights just thinking of it - and it wasn't even my debt. When one of my girls wanted to got to Boston University Law, I begged her to go to OU to avoid the debt burden even though I love OCU and think I got a fantastic education. She is stubborn (don't know where she gets it) and did what she wanted, graduating with horrible debts but could get a job in NYC that helped her to pay them down. If someone is staying in this area, oh god.

[twade]

I agree with some of what you said but not all. There are those like me who went there because I wanted to go there. They offer a night program that allowed me to work for two different judges and an internship at the city attys office which allowed me to make contacts for three and a half years that I would not have otherwise made ... all three of which I would likely not been able to do at OU since they do not have a night program. Also, I am a third generation OCU law grad which was important to me. I was fortunate enough to not have to take out student loans, and already had a job once I was out of school so going to OCU served me better than going to OU. I do agree that if you will be on student loans when you are in law school that that you have no business going to OCU because unless you graduate towards the very top of your class you might as well just assume you will die with some of the law school debt.

You make a great point about the part-time program! I should have added a third point. A legal education doesn't have to take place between 8-3 Mon.-Fri.

[Spartan]

Of course I have seen the rankings before and the tiers but in my mind, street cred isn't the best term to use. That's all I have to say, don't want this to be an argument about street cred/reputation.

OK, then just get over the use of the word "street cred," it's that easy. Pretend he just said "reputation" and leave it at that..

[Midtowner]

You make a great point about the part-time program! I should have added a third point. A legal education doesn't have to take place between 8-3 Mon.-Fri.

I did the night program all the way through. Just so the thread says something, the same tenured and excellent profs teach the night classes as the day students get. I will say that Creel was much, MUCH easier on his night students than his day students [if you went, you know what I'm speaking of] from what I hear, but we took the same finals.

At any rate, as I've said a few times, the quality of instruction is on par with anywhere. The teachers are EXCELLENT. Their scholarship is really top-notch and the experience is excellent. I will say this about the debt load--my classmates are all doing very well in spite of it. Either I just made friends with a bunch of folks with trust funds or they're all doing extremely well. If you get into this business and are good at it and are a good businessman, you'll be fine no matter what your student loans are.

[kevinpate]

Well... most of the lawyers I see at librairies graduated before statehood.

That's only because it's easier for them to get across town than to figure out that silly computer fad thingy.
8^)

[Larry OKC]

http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/6...AxADIANwAyADkA

Oklahoma City University School of Law to remain on current campus
Friday, July 16, 2010

Henry’s decision garnered the support of former president Tom McDaniel, now an OCU chancellor.

"Many of our students and their families are struggling to meet the financial requirements of a great college education. President Henry is right on target in making student scholarships and faculty needs our first priority," McDaniel said.

Weren't those same needs present when this was announced at the end of the year? Just seven months ago...its not like the economy suddenly tanked..that had already happened and the results were being felt.

[DirtLaw]

http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/6...AxADIANwAyADkA

Oklahoma City University School of Law to remain on current campus
Friday, July 16, 2010



Weren't those same needs present when this was announced at the end of the year? Just seven months ago...its not like the economy suddenly tanked..that had already happened and the results were being felt.

This is what bothers me about the whole thing. The economic situation is exactly the same as it was when they announced the plans. There has to be something else to this.

[bluedogok]

This is what bothers me about the whole thing. The economic situation is exactly the same as it was when they announced the plans. There has to be something else to this.

More than likely some of the "money people" behind the move must have backed out. When universities "change course" abruptly that is usually the cause.

[earlywinegareth]

Have any of you spent 10 minutes in that area? My personal opinion is the OCU folks realized what a huge mistake it would be to put faculty and students in one of the worst areas of town. Who in their right mind would want to go there every day and have to deal with the homeless, panhandlers, and mentally ill people roaming the streets? It is truly scary down there.

[DirtLaw]

Have any of you spent 10 minutes in that area? My personal opinion is the OCU folks realized what a huge mistake it would be to put faculty and students in one of the worst areas of town. Who in their right mind would want to go there every day and have to deal with the homeless, panhandlers, and mentally ill people roaming the streets? It is truly scary down there.

I am in "that area" every day. My office is right down main street from this building, and the new devon tower is only a few blocks as well. It is not like it is sitting in the middle of south central LA. Yes there are some homeless, but there are homeless in several areas downtown. Look at civic center park (or Bicentennial park I thin is its real name) there are bums there every single day unfortunately. I think an investment in west downtown would create excitement and other development in that area as well.

[JayhawkTransplant]

Earlywinegareth, I used to live in that area, and now I actually live near OCU. I really don't see much difference in terms of safety?

I was only really 'scared' once when I lived in that area, and it was because a bus ran a stop sign and almost hit me while I was running.

[mburlison]

I'm not a preservationist per se, but I hope someone ends up using the old Ford plant.