Electric Vehicles

[Bill Robertson]

Somebody posted a funny photo of a car parked on the street with a very long extension cord running out of a house and across the sidewalk.

I've ranted about the idiocy of leaving your 2nd most valuable physical asset parked outside (at the mercy of the elements and thieves) when almost every home has a large garage.


Maybe the move to electric vehicles will slowly start to get people to clean the crap out of their garages to make room for the chargers and vehicles.

I have to admit to parking my Elantra outside. But it's because the wife's Jeep is inside so she doesn't have to be outside to get in it. And my Miata is inside because I've never had the top up and the plan is to never put it up. We do watch weather and leave the Jeep out and pull mine in if there's any chance of hail. It does bother me the number of people who have completely empty garages or garages that are so full of ? and the cars sit outside.

[TheTravellers]

Francis Energy, an OK company, is building out a network of chargers every 50 miles across middle America. This will be helpful to me since my MINI only has a range of ~110 miles (I drive it mainly around the city, but this gives me the option of traveling further without too much range anxiety).

https://francisenergy.com/

[shawnw]

I have a proposal on my desk from Francis Energy for charging stations at Broke Brewing that they fully pay for if we lease them the spots for 10 years. They said there would be a highway sign at the highway exits onto 39th indicating that we have EV charging.

[TheTravellers]

I have a proposal on my desk from Francis Energy for charging stations at Broke Brewing that they fully pay for if we lease them the spots for 10 years. They said there would be a highway sign at the highway exits onto 39th indicating that we have EV charging.

They seem to have a clue, because they appear to be putting chargers at places that have longer periods of "dwell time" (breweries, grocery stores, restaurants) instead of at gas stations (where "dwell time" is almost nonexistent).

[Pete]

They seem to have a clue, because they appear to be putting chargers at places that have longer periods of "dwell time" (breweries, grocery stores, restaurants) instead of at gas stations (where "dwell time" is almost nonexistent).

Or hotels where someone with a slow-charging car hogs the charging station all night long.


I'm going to have to buy a new car in the next few years and still not sure if an EV will be right for me given the charging infrastructure.

Even with the longest range, on a long road trip there are plenty of scenarios where you limp into a charging station and get behind people that are taking hours. I will be embarking on another long driving trip through the Midwest at the end of the summer and was checking out the reality of my desired route, and it stressed me out to think about taking that ride in an EV.

Things are changing and rapidly, but not sure of the timing for when we hit a tipping point. I hope within 2-3 years taking a long trip anywhere in the U.S. would be stress-free.

[TheTravellers]

Or hotels where someone with a slow-charging car hogs the charging station all night long....

That would probably be a level 2 charging station (220-240v), which are slow (takes 4 hours or so for it to charge my MINI from empty to full, I have one installed in my garage). I believe Francis and most of the public chargers are level 3 (which will charge my MINI from empty to full in about 40 minutes (I have yet to test/time that, since my charging module was faulty and just now got replaced), and it'd probably take double that for a regular EV with a 300 mile range).

[FighttheGoodFight]

Or hotels where someone with a slow-charging car hogs the charging station all night long.


I'm going to have to buy a new car in the next few years and still not sure if an EV will be right for me given the charging infrastructure.

Even with the longest range, on a long road trip there are plenty of scenarios where you limp into a charging station and get behind people that are taking hours. I will be embarking on another long driving trip through the Midwest at the end of the summer and was checking out the reality of my desired route, and it stressed me out to think about taking that ride in an EV.

Things are changing and rapidly, but not sure of the timing for when we hit a tipping point. I hope within 2-3 years taking a long trip anywhere in the U.S. would be stress-free.

If I was doing just one road trip a year I would have an EV then just rent a car. That was always our plan if we went to all EV. But we will most likely have one gas and one electric for the future.

[Pete]

If I was doing just one road trip a year I would have an EV then just rent a car. That was always our plan if we went to all EV. But we will most likely have one gas and one electric for the future.

I've thought about that too but when you are already paying a ton of money for a new (EV) car, I would have a hard time stomaching the additional expense and hassle to drive a rental car that likely won't be as nice as the one sitting home while you are paying for it. Not to mention, the significantly higher fuel price of a rental car on the only long trips you take.

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

A plug-in hybrid might be the way to go since most drives are short in nature and you can cover most of them in pure electric mode. But PHEV's are all on back-order and when you do the math, the price premium will never offset the fuel savings.

For me and most others, it's still too early to make such a huge purchase. It's not like a PC or TV you can just junk in favor of the latest and greatest. Cars are already among the most rapidly depreciating large asset you can buy and for the foreseeable future, EV's will be even worse in that regard.

It's very different in a two-car household, but that's not my situation. Unless things change rapidly in the next 2-3 years, I'll probably buy another ICE car. And I am the walking definition of an Early Adopter.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I've thought about that too but when you are already paying a ton of money for a new (EV) car, I would have a hard time stomaching the additional expense and hassle to drive a rental car that likely won't be as nice as the one sitting home while you are paying for it. Not to mention, the significantly higher fuel price of a rental car on the only long trips you take.

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

A plug-in hybrid might be the way to go since most drives are short in nature and you can cover most of them in pure electric mode. But PHEV's are all on back-order and when you do the math, the price premium will never offset the fuel savings.

For me and most others, it's still too early to make such a huge purchase. It's not like a PC or TV you can just junk in favor of the latest and greatest. Cars are already among the most rapidly depreciating large asset you can buy and for the foreseeable future, EV's will be even worse in that regard.

It's very different in a two-car household, but that's not my situation. Unless things change rapidly in the next 2-3 years, I'll probably buy another ICE car. And I am the walking definition of an Early Adopter.

Yes different situations for everyone! My aunt lives in Dallas and drives a Model Y here to visit and only has to charge here once then can make it back home. But those are pretty expensive for an EV. Prices will come down and range will normalize. Toyota is developing some new battery tech that could start get better numbers (probably won't see that for another 10 years).

[Pete]

Leasing an EV might be an option for me, due to the fact a huge percentage of my driving is related to this business and I can write that off on my taxes. If you own a car, you can only claim a set $/mile amount.

There are all types of new lease arrangements for EV's, including the ability to keep swapping for new models.

But I take great care of my cars and keep them for a long time; I've had my current vehicle for over 19 years and it has been completely paid off for 18 of them.

I've never liked the idea of a lease and even with the tax benefits, total ownership costs would be much more than a purchase; I have spreadsheets where I've done all the analysis. I also firmly believe EV's will depreciate much more rapidly than ICE cars until we reach some sort of plateau in battery technology.

[TheTravellers]

...

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once. ...

We're planning on taking the MINI to Dallas in Sep to see Roxy Music, not sure where we're stopping on the way there to charge (or where we're charging in Dallas - concert's at AA Center, hotel is the Marriott next to it), but on the way back, we're stopping at Smokin' Joes and will charge around there.

[shawnw]

Confirmed, in my Francis proposal it is level 3 chargers

[shawnw]

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

When my college best friend visits OKC from Temple, TX (south of DFW, almost to Austin) with his Tesla, he stops once in I think Denton to supercharge.

[BoulderSooner]

I've thought about that too but when you are already paying a ton of money for a new (EV) car, I would have a hard time stomaching the additional expense and hassle to drive a rental car that likely won't be as nice as the one sitting home while you are paying for it. Not to mention, the significantly higher fuel price of a rental car on the only long trips you take.

And it's not just long road trips. Almost no EV can make it to Dallas and back without a charge or maybe two or three. That's a roundtrip I've made in the same day more than once.

A plug-in hybrid might be the way to go since most drives are short in nature and you can cover most of them in pure electric mode. But PHEV's are all on back-order and when you do the math, the price premium will never offset the fuel savings.

For me and most others, it's still too early to make such a huge purchase. It's not like a PC or TV you can just junk in favor of the latest and greatest. Cars are already among the most rapidly depreciating large asset you can buy and for the foreseeable future, EV's will be even worse in that regard.

It's very different in a two-car household, but that's not my situation. Unless things change rapidly in the next 2-3 years, I'll probably buy another ICE car. And I am the walking definition of an Early Adopter.

more and more new charging stations are starting to charge for charging as well ..

[TheTravellers]

more and more new charging stations are starting to charge for charging as well ..

Pretty much all level 3 charging stations charge something, and I've read prices vary widely between companies. And the Francis chargers are better maintained and work more often than Electrify America's (sounds like they're the most widespread).

[Bill Robertson]

As far as charging time. Over the years of cars existing racing has created lots of technology that eventually makes it to street cars. There have been lots of articles lately about the major racing bodies working on developing charging systems that charge from almost dead to full in minutes. Hopefully they make this work and it can trickle down without the chargers drawing so much current from the grids that they're not feasible for street cars.

[TheTravellers]

As far as charging time. Over the years of cars existing racing has created lots of technology that eventually makes it to street cars. There have been lots of articles lately about the major racing bodies working on developing charging systems that charge from almost dead to full in minutes. Hopefully they make this work and it can trickle down without the chargers drawing so much current from the grids that they're not feasible for street cars.

The other part of that is the car battery system has to be able to accept that kind of huge charge multiple times over its lifetime without degrading the battery lifespan.

[PaddyShack]

I like the idea of moving to a standard battery shape/size, where you would pull into the charging station swap out your battery, very much like a propane tank exchange, and then you are on your way in 10 or 15 minutes.

[shawnw]

Have long wished there were two battery banks in an electric car, the main, non-removable one and a removable auxiliary one with shorter range (~20 miles maybe) that could be swapped to "get you home in a pinch", where you would recharge in full. Basically when your "low gas" light would come on in a gas car (in my experience that has meant you have 20-40 miles left depending on the vehicle), that's this second battery, your "warning reserve",

Here's a video of battery swapping happening for an electric scooter. No reason this couldn't be the case for electric cars, too. Frustrating they're not doing it.
https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/st...88959568609280 (references gogoro.com)

[Anonymous.]

Have long wished there were two battery banks in an electric car, the main, non-removable one and a removable auxiliary one with shorter range (~20 miles maybe) that could be swapped to "get you home in a pinch", where you would recharge in full. Basically when your "low gas" light would come on in a gas car (in my experience that has meant you have 20-40 miles left depending on the vehicle), that's this second battery, your "warning reserve",

Here's a video of battery swapping happening for an electric scooter. No reason this couldn't be the case for electric cars, too. Frustrating they're not doing it.
https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/st...88959568609280 (references gogoro.com)

Even the newest version of Lime scooters has swappable battery packs. It is crazy to me that scooter companies are just now doing this. No more collecting heavy and awkward scooters at the end of their battery life around the city. The only time to do that is for other maintenance.

[Snowman]

I like the idea of moving to a standard battery shape/size, where you would pull into the charging station swap out your battery, very much like a propane tank exchange, and then you are on your way in 10 or 15 minutes.

Though that is basically getting into a different ownership model, the battery is a significant portion of the value of the car, and swapping will likely change your max range.

[Bill Robertson]

The other part of that is the car battery system has to be able to accept that kind of huge charge multiple times over its lifetime without degrading the battery lifespan.

Of course. But with the way battery technology has advanced in the past I can see this being overcome before too long.

[David]

EVOK - Oklahoma's Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Program

Details of OK's plan for the National Electric Vehicle Formula Program that was in the infrastructure bill earlier this year.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m glad to see hydrogen being part of this plan. I’m more interested in that than EVs but there are hardly any stations from what I saw outside of California.

[Pete]

Press release:

***********

EVOK Update
ODOT submits National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure plan for review, public comment

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation has completed its Oklahoma’s Electric Infrastructure Deployment Plan as part of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. The EV Plan is posted at Oklahoma.gov/evok and is available to review and provide comments through Sept. 9, 2022:

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/..._NEVI_Plan.pdf


Under the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure program, Oklahoma will be receiving $66 million during the course of five years to improve and expand the statewide network of electric vehicle charging stations. The funds from the NEVI program must first be applied to installing charging stations along the alternative fuel corridors within Oklahoma’s interstates and highways.

Once these charging stations have been evaluated and are operational, the remaining NEVI funds will become discretionary. Stakeholders and community members can provide input on the plan and how these discretionary funds should be allocated. To leave comments: https://tinyurl.com/EVOKPLAN.