Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[kevinpate]

not advocating the draw, but if folks in control of leasing decisions didn't want water levels to drop from level X to level Y, why were lease payments accepted for storing and water rights for any of the water between levels X and Y? Why didn't those who control leasing storage say, back when, they wouldn't lease that much additional water storage. Instead of taking money to hold the water, why didn't they say sorry, that water is needed here. To make it available would be bad for the lake, bad for the immediate local economy and bad for other lakes?

Seems that today's danger will robinson argument would be a stronger argument if they hadn't already agreed, and been paid, to hold the water for someone else to use when the someone else's choose.

[OKCRT]

not advocating the draw, but if folks in control of leasing decisions didn't want water levels to drop from level X to level Y, why were lease payments accepted for storing and water rights for any of the water between levels X and Y? Why didn't those who control leasing storage say, back when, they wouldn't lease that much additional water storage. Instead of taking money to hold the water, why didn't they say sorry, that water is needed here. To make it available would be bad for the lake, bad for the immediate local economy and bad for other lakes?

Seems that today's danger will robinson argument would be a stronger argument if they hadn't already agreed, and been paid, to hold the water for someone else to use when the someone else's choose.

They can't change the rules in the middle of the game. It appears to me that this water is OKCs water to do whatever they want to do with it. I doubt that OKC will or wants to kill lake Canton.

[law]

Canton and the surrounding towns are not parties in the contract between the Corps of Engineers (federal government) and the OKCWT (city of OKC). They derive no share of the the funds, nor are they allowed a part of any of the negotiations.

The circumstances surrounding the contract have changed. The most obvious change is the drought. Currently, there is little if any inflow into Canton Lake. While inflow is nil, OKC continues to live as it did during wet times. OKC must be more responsible in its water usage or seek other means to support it's habit.

Current water studies by the USGS suggest Canton no longer has the ability to recharge as it did when the contract was signed.

OKC has expanded water use from Hefner to a much larger group of people and projects. When maps began, long after the storage contract, OKC "promised" they would use wells for the project, but that soon failed, and instead of seeking another direction, they looked once again to Canton Lake. Where will OKC get the water to irrigate the new 70 acre park? In many ways, water, like cash is fungible. In this drought, Canton Lake cannot continue to sustain OKC's luxury water use.

The last silt studies were done in 1977. Without new silt studies, there was/is no way to know how much water is in Canton Lake. The lake levels in the contract were set between two big governments. I doubt there was much consideration for the viability of the Lake.

I do not believe the residents of OKC "want" to kill Canton Lake. It doesn't matter whether they want to or not, the result is the same. I do believe very few understand or care to understand the situation, and your public officials are not telling you what will happen. Often, replies to pleas from western Oklahoma is "this water is OKCs water to do whatever they want to do with it."

One of Canton and the surrounding areas requests is wait to draw water as long as physically possible. Often there are beneficial spring rains between Canton and OKC that may alleviate the need to draw water from Canton for the year. Sometimes, OKC has drawn water, then received rains, and were forced to let that water go by. In this drought, you should think of Canton Lake not as a credit card to be used often, but like a savings account to be used sparingly and only in absolute emergencies. As long as the water is in Canton, it is available. If you draw, it will be gone, the Lake will die, and in this drought not recharge. As long as that situation continues, there will be no water for OKC. Your water storage space will be empty.

Isn't it better to be know the problem you face? Would you blame the messenger for telling you the truth?

[Snowman]

The lake levels in the contract were set between two big governments. I doubt there was much consideration for the viability of the Lake.

It was not, most of the Oklahoma lakes of any size got funding to be built as water supplies (with consideration for flood control), in no small part from prior droughts especially the dust bowl, any recreation or local economics were considered side benefit.

[law]

It was not, most of the Oklahoma lakes of any size got funding to be built as water supplies (with consideration for flood control), in no small part from prior droughts especially the dust bowl, any recreation or local economics were considered side benefit.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I did not mean the original building of the lake contract, I meant the water storage contract in the '90's was between the feds and OKC. Enid actually had the earlier contract for water storage. They relinquished rights when they started using wells near Cleo Springs. The levels OKC can draw from, between 1615.4 ft and 1596.5 ft, is established in that contract.

[OKCRT]

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I did not mean the original building of the lake contract, I meant the water storage contract in the '90's was between the feds and OKC. Enid actually had the earlier contract for water storage. They relinquished rights when they started using wells near Cleo Springs. The levels OKC can draw from, between 1615.4 ft and 1596.5 ft, is established in that contract.

Hopefully it's pouring rain in Canton lake as it is in lake Hefner right now. This storm should help some,how much?

[Snowman]

Hopefully it's pouring rain in Canton lake as it is in lake Hefner right now. This storm should help some,how much?

It looks like the storm was far enough east it pretty much missed Canton's catchment area, a few inches may have been collected in Overholser or Hefner but as dry as the riverbed was I would not expect much.

[Bellaboo]

I checked the rainfall totals in some of the North Canadian catchment areas out by Watonga and Greenfield, it was at least an inch up to 2 inches. Maybe this will help fill Hefner some.

[law]

Well, today is the day. Even though Hefner is 2/3rds full, OKCWT has given Canton Lake the death sentence. The Corps will open the only usable gate, and drain the Lake. It is unknown when the water will stop, but at that point, OKC is done. Until the drought breaks in the North Canadian watershed above Canton Lake, there will be NO more water from Canton.

OKCWT set our house on fire, and it's burning down, no way to stop it. But now, it's YOUR (the 200,000 who only get water from Hefner) house that is on fire, the burn will be slower, but burning it is, what is PLAN B? You should ask your councilmen why they have risked your water reserve, before the spring rains had a chance to fill Hefner.

So, happy days are here for you. When you drive by Hefner, and it looks nicer, say a prayer for those who will suffer, and the disaster that will happen, because OKC wanted it to be. So, get out there and water those gutters in the rain! It's yours to waste as you see fit. The sooner it's gone, the better.

[OSUFan]

After the reading the thread I'm still not sure why people are upset with OKC. I have family in that area and they are not happy. Canton Lake was built for this very purpose right? I agree it sucks for those around the lake but this is what the lake was built for right?

[BoulderSooner]

After the reading the thread I'm still not sure why people are upset with OKC. I have family in that area and they are not happy. Canton Lake was built for this very purpose right? I agree it sucks for those around the lake but this is what the lake was built for right?

this ..

OKC has water rights they used them in their best interest ... period we had a rain thus it is the best time for a release

[OSUFan]

Thanks Boulder. I'm not trying to be combative either to the other view point. I just honestly don't get the other side. I completely sympathize with the people up there, I just don't get why OKC is in the wrong. It is our water.

[LakeEffect]

Thanks Boulder. I'm not trying to be combative either to the other view point. I just honestly don't get the other side. I completely sympathize with the people up there, I just don't get why OKC is in the wrong. It is our water.

Tragedy of the commons.

IS OKC using water in its best interest? Funny story, back when I worked at the City, I once heard a story about an eager employee that wanted to promote water conservation efforts, but was shot down because water = revenue, and in no way should they support conservation. Not being a party to it all, I cannot say if it was a true story or not, but it sure is interesting.

[BoulderSooner]

Thanks Boulder. I'm not trying to be combative either to the other view point. I just honestly don't get the other side. I completely sympathize with the people up there, I just don't get why OKC is in the wrong. It is our water.

i agree i'm sure that if i lived by lake canton i would be a little upset but not with OKC. It is not like this was some big secret canton was built to hold water every other use is secondary

[BoulderSooner]

Tragedy of the commons.

IS OKC using water in its best interest? Funny story, back when I worked at the City, I once heard a story about an eager employee that wanted to promote water conservation efforts, but was shot down because water = revenue, and in no way should they support conservation. Not being a party to it all, I cannot say if it was a true story or not, but it sure is interesting.

should okc promote water conservation efforts going forward? should okc have in the past? i would say yes to both.

[Anonymous.]

Well, today is the day. Even though Hefner is 2/3rds full, OKCWT has given Canton Lake the death sentence. The Corps will open the only usable gate, and drain the Lake. It is unknown when the water will stop, but at that point, OKC is done. Until the drought breaks in the North Canadian watershed above Canton Lake, there will be NO more water from Canton.

OKCWT set our house on fire, and it's burning down, no way to stop it. But now, it's YOUR (the 200,000 who only get water from Hefner) house that is on fire, the burn will be slower, but burning it is, what is PLAN B? You should ask your councilmen why they have risked your water reserve, before the spring rains had a chance to fill Hefner.

So, happy days are here for you. When you drive by Hefner, and it looks nicer, say a prayer for those who will suffer, and the disaster that will happen, because OKC wanted it to be. So, get out there and water those gutters in the rain! It's yours to waste as you see fit. The sooner it's gone, the better.

Any chance you can get a photo of this occurrence?


How exactly is this water making it to Hefner? I am very curious.

[LakeEffect]

Any chance you can get a photo of this occurrence?


How exactly is this water making it to Hefner? I am very curious.

Flows down the North Canadian River into Lake Overholser and then flows down a man-made canal to Lake Hefner.

[law]

Any chance you can get a photo of this occurrence?


How exactly is this water making it to Hefner? I am very curious.

They have started the release. We will be posting photos when they ramp up the release. The water flows down the North Canadian until it reaches Hefner.

This is your problem now. Without rain above Canton, there will be no water from Canton. NO WATER FROM CANTON.

[LakeEffect]

They have started the release. We will be posting photos when they ramp up the release. The water flows down the North Canadian until it reaches Hefner.

This is your problem now. Without rain above Canton, there will be no water from Canton. NO WATER FROM CANTON.

I think that's the larger issue. Unless we see some drought relief soon, we'll have major water issues this summer. While we should all be sad that Canton is losing a recreation/wildlife source, we should be more concerned that it's potentially the last draw we'll be able to have for a long time.

[mkjeeves]

You can watch the data at the gages along the river too and see the release recorded at Canton as well as watch it rise along the points on the trip to OKC. I don't ever look at lake levels but I'm sure they are around on the internet too.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=...w=1280&bih=559

[law]

I think that's the larger issue. Unless we see some drought relief soon, we'll have major water issues this summer. While we should all be sad that Canton is losing a recreation/wildlife source, we should be more concerned that it's potentially the last draw we'll be able to have for a long time.

Until the drought breaks above Canton, could be 5 years? Could be 10 years? Could be NEVER. It's doomsday, better start prepping.

[mkjeeves]

Lets all hope it is springtime and yes, prepare.

[law]

You can watch the data at the gages along the river too and see the release recorded at Canton as well as watch it rise along the points on the trip to OKC. I don't ever look at lake levels but I'm sure they are around on the internet too.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=...w=1280&bih=559

Search for gauges on the North Canadian...you can start at Seiling. That would get the inflow into Canton. There are many gauges along the river. A new gauge has come online recently for the tower at Hefner.

[LandRunOkie]

The rainfall yesterday was moving unimpressive amounts of water into Lake Hefner, compared to what 3/4" normally would bring.

[Anonymous.]

Flows down the North Canadian River into Lake Overholser and then flows down a man-made canal to Lake Hefner.

Okay I just followed the river out of Canton to Overholser over google maps..

This water has ALOT of dry area to fill.