Lindsey Street

[venture]

I have watched the second video several times and the only light I saw that could possibly affect people in the roundabout was flashing yellow. I think my videos provided a good contrast to the light traffic videos that were posted previously that obviously are intended to show them in the best light. I'm not a fan as I have stated in numerous times here in various threads.

There was a light just 40 seconds in that was red.

Here is a video of the same roundabout (the Oldchurch Roundabout in Romford, Essex) which doesn't really show much in the way of traffic issues.

[kevinpate]

Lot more bikes these days between campus and all about downtown.
I tend to not drive W or E Lindsey much anymore so can't say if the bike folks travel it much. But I'm through DT quite a bit and it is very noticeable compared to even a year back, and mega noticeable when I think back 5 years or more.

[venture]

Lot more bikes these days between campus and all about downtown.
I tend to not drive W or E Lindsey much anymore so can't say if the bike folks travel it much. But I'm through DT quite a bit and it is very noticeable compared to even a year back, and mega noticeable when I think back 5 years or more.

Yeah I was downtown today as well and noticed quite a bit. Normally don't see much on E Lindsey, but with the apartments/condos going up down on 12th...I could see where bike traffic might pick up. Should be plenty of right-of-way to put in bike lanes from campus down to 12th SE. I would also think that Lindsey & Classen would be a good target for a large roundabout. Another area that needs it bad is Classen and 12th, but I'm not sure if that would work with it being a US route.

Working back to the west...Lindsey/George could easily be done with a roundabout before development fills in there. It sucks since it is all new construction, but it would get rid of another light and be relatively easy. Lindsey/Jenkins is going to be a tight fit but should be doable as a single lane roundabout.

Lindsey/Asp has enough room for a single lane roundabout with all the extra space to the south. Then Van Vleet Oval, if it is every going to be reopened or not (I want to say its gone for good) would be another candidate for a roundabout but room gets tight.

[Geographer]

Shifting gears a little bit....

Someone earlier mentioned Carmel, Indiana and their roundabouts...well check out this interstate on/off ramp system. This is pretty cool

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=carme...gl=us&t=h&z=19


Here is also a shopping center with great street design as well in Carmel, IN.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=carme...gl=us&t=h&z=17

[HangryHippo]

Shifting gears a little bit....

Someone earlier mentioned Carmel, Indiana and their roundabouts...well check out this interstate on/off ramp system. This is pretty cool

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=carme...gl=us&t=h&z=19


Here is also a shopping center with great street design as well in Carmel, IN.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=carme...gl=us&t=h&z=17

Carmel, IN is doing some really awesome things.

[venture]

The Clay Terrace design is pretty popular back north. Pretty much a hybrid lifestyle center layout. What UNP should have looked like instead of acres of parking in front of stores versus along the interstate.

[Just the facts]

I'm not familiar with Preston Rd in Dallas. I assume there are traffic lights there now. How is traffic? How do you think it would flow with an intersection design the can move 4X to 5X as many cars in the same time period? Of course, as with the videos posted above, some stop light down the street would eventually back traffic up through the roundabout - and why you might ask - because traffic can flow faster through the roundabout than it can through the street light.

[venture]

I'm not familiar with Preston Rd in Dallas. I assume there are traffic lights there now. How is traffic? How do you think it would flow with an intersection design the can move 4X to 5X as many cars in the same time period? Of course, as with the videos posted above, some stop light down the street would eventually back traffic up through the roundabout - and why you might ask - because traffic can flow faster through the roundabout than it can through the street light.

Ding ding ding. I think we'll find that if/when the Lindsey plan is fully in place and built, with the roundabout options at the selected intersections, we'll see the back ups occur at 24th, McGee, and Pickard where the lights are. Of course if we see OU follow through and do a roundabout at Jenkins, and better timed lights at the crosswalks we would probably find eastbound Lindsey will flow very smoothly and westbound will be good until you hit McGee and start backing up.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not familiar with Preston Rd in Dallas. I assume there are traffic lights there now. How is traffic? How do you think it would flow with an intersection design the can move 4X to 5X as many cars in the same time period? Of course, as with the videos posted above, some stop light down the street would eventually back traffic up through the roundabout - and why you might ask - because traffic can flow faster through the roundabout than it can through the street light.

There is a ton of traffic, and it moves very smoothly for the amount of traffic it has. That road you posted a picture of in Jacksonville, think that kind of traffic, flowing almost flawlessly. Preston is a great model, it is 6 lanes, has two dedicated left turn lanes on EVERY major intersection and dedicated right turn lanes, even into commercial developments. I'm telling you right now, there is no way a round-a-bout would work in that area. It would be a freakin mess to have round-a-bouts there.

One thing I love about Dallas is its road and highway network. It is amazing, almost the entire city is served by 6 lane roads and it has worked very VERY well for them. Obviously, OKC can't and doesn't have a need to widen all of its roads to six lanes, but like I said, there about 5-10 of them I would think should be widened, and I'm sure they will in time. I have nothing against round-a-bouts and I even would like to see one at the new Boulevard that is to built downtown, but I just don't think they are the god of transferring traffic.

BTW, next time I'm there, I'll take a video when I'm driving through Preston so you can see what exactly it is and all the awesome stores people here are saying they want, like Tom Thumb, Kroger, Stonebriar ect.

[ou48A]

There is a ton of traffic, and it moves very smoothly for the amount of traffic it has. That road you posted a picture of in Jacksonville, think that kind of traffic, flowing almost flawlessly. Preston is a great model, it is 6 lanes, has two dedicated left turn lanes on EVERY major intersection and dedicated right turn lanes, even into commercial developments. I'm telling you right now, there is no way a round-a-bout would work in that area. It would be a freakin mess to have round-a-bouts there.

One thing I love about Dallas is its road and highway network. It is amazing, almost the entire city is served by 6 lane roads and it has worked very VERY well for them. Obviously, OKC can't and doesn't have a need to widen all of its roads to six lanes, but like I said, there about 5-10 of them I would think should be widened, and I'm sure they will in time. I have nothing against round-a-bouts and I even would like to see one at the new Boulevard that is to built downtown, but I just don't think they are the god of transferring traffic.

BTW, next time I'm there, I'll take a video when I'm driving through Preston so you can see what exactly it is and all the awesome stores people here are saying they want, like Tom Thumb, Kroger, Stonebriar ect.

Very good post^

When people say they want all these great stores there are very good reasons why some of them either are not here or are slow to come to our area. In many cases it's because other places have created better places for them to go.
Most of the time is about how much disposable income the population has. Doing the things that create higher income jobs will be necessary. Time saving transportation is critical to prosperity.

[venture]

Sometimes we just are not nearly bold enough in our thinking.

Indeed...which is why people so set in their ways wanting 5-7 lanes of pavement to create an evening bigger concrete divide through parts of town need to pushed out - much like what happened in the last council election.

[QUOTE=ou48A;677873 Time saving transportation is critical to prosperity.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you agree that we definitely need to try everything we can to remove traffic lights to ensure constant flows of traffic and reduce traffic delays.

[venture]

I agree completely. OKC really needs to beautify itself(esp. along its highways) and tackle a bunch of its streets. There are tons of streets I would like to see widened to six lanes and follow the model that Dallas builds from. Everything I've seen, Dallas is extremely successful and has a ton of badass developments along Preston and along the North Dallas Tollway(which is one of the coolest highways I've ever seen). That area is so freakin nice is not even funny, and some of these amazing office parks they have I would kill for to have here.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to use the money and invest in mass transit before we could expanding every road to 6 lanes? We really need to stay realistic here. OKC and also Norman (since this is the Norman section of the forum) are not Dallas and never will be Dallas. Adding more lanes typically just means more traffic to get more congested overtime...it doesn't solve the problem. We need to have a balanced approach.

No one is saying a roundabout is the solution to every issue, but in quite a few cases it makes much more sense. It also allows the roadway to have a better look to it. You are talking about beautifying roads and highways. Adding more lanes of pavement isn't going to do it.

One thing I love about Dallas is its road and highway network. It is amazing, almost the entire city is served by 6 lane roads and it has worked very VERY well for them. Obviously, OKC can't and doesn't have a need to widen all of its roads to six lanes, but like I said, there about 5-10 of them I would think should be widened, and I'm sure they will in time. I have nothing against round-a-bouts and I even would like to see one at the new Boulevard that is to built downtown, but I just don't think they are the god of transferring traffic.

BTW, next time I'm there, I'll take a video when I'm driving through Preston so you can see what exactly it is and all the awesome stores people here are saying they want, like Tom Thumb, Kroger, Stonebriar ect.

Honestly I think the OKC area's road network is pretty well setup as well. Perfect grid in most locations and easy highway access. Can't really complain. Of course, no need to discuss OKC's specific road widening objects because this the Norman section and should be focused as such.

A lot of this anti-roundabout discussion just seems to continue to stem from people that are use to the way it always has been done and have little experience with them in a full scale deployment. Nothing wrong with that. I just think for Lindsey specifically ( getting back on topic) we have the opportunity to build a new gateway into the heart of the city. The visual impact of a tree lined street, with trees in the median, and 3 roundabouts with unique, locally influenced sculptures with various lighting elements would be amazing. A typical wide slab of pavement with your typical layout will do nothing to setup Norman about from the OKC suburbs to our North.

[Plutonic Panda]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to use the money and invest in mass transit before we could expanding every road to 6 lanes? We really need to stay realistic here. OKC and also Norman (since this is the Norman section of the forum) are not Dallas and never will be Dallas. Adding more lanes typically just means more traffic to get more congested overtime...it doesn't solve the problem. We need to have a balanced approach

Yes, I do think a balanced approach is needed, and I'm not trying to say its and urgent matter widening the roads here six lanes. I would love to see a functioning bus system and a light-rail at that. I'm sure OKC and Norman(as well as Edmond) can manage to approach this with reason and balance.

No one is saying a roundabout is the solution to every issue, but in quite a few cases it makes much more sense. It also allows the roadway to have a better look to it. You are talking about beautifying roads and highways. Adding more lanes of pavement isn't going to do it.

Well, I really can't say much more and shouldn't have really said much to begin with, as I don't know this area and its traffic that well, other than what I've read on here.

Honestly I think the OKC area's road network is pretty well setup as well. Perfect grid in most locations and easy highway access. Can't really complain. Of course, no need to discuss OKC's specific road widening objects because this the Norman section and should be focused as such.

A lot of this anti-roundabout discussion just seems to continue to stem from people that are use to the way it always has been done and have little experience with them in a full scale deployment. Nothing wrong with that. I just think for Lindsey specifically ( getting back on topic) we have the opportunity to build a new gateway into the heart of the city. The visual impact of a tree lined street, with trees in the median, and 3 roundabouts with unique, locally influenced sculptures with various lighting elements would be amazing. A typical wide slab of pavement with your typical layout will do nothing to setup Norman about from the OKC suburbs to our North.

I understand the grid system works the best, however, I like the curved roads similar to Dallas and L.A.. I think they are more "scenic". OKC's roads would be much better if they added center turn medians, landscaping, dedicated turn lanes and sidewalks.

[kevinpate]

I disagree JTF. The one way sections of Main and Gray are fine just like they are.

[catch22]

I disagree JTF. The one way sections of Main and Gray are fine just like they are.

Yes they are fine how they are.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm confused by this statement. Every single time, without fail, that I go into Dallas, I regret it so much. The traffic there is horrendous. Perhaps I should get off the highways more to see what you mean?

The traffic is really bad during rush hour, other than that, it is generally pretty mild, esp. for a metro of 7 million people. On average, Austin has much worse traffic than Dallas, imo. There are a few places where they are doing construction and it backs up, but the same thing happens here.

Just FYI, Dallas does have some pretty good urban neighborhoods, Sid. If you want, I can P.M. you some great urban projects and some urban neighborhoods that are pretty cool, Dallas isn't all about it suburbs.

[kevinpate]

venture79, wouldn't a roundabout at both Main/Porter and Gray/Porter be a really tight fit?

[venture]

venture79, wouldn't a roundabout at both Main/Porter and Gray/Porter be a really tight fit?

Indeed, which is why I said right-of-way purchasing would definitely complicate things. I was more or less just throwing out an idea to find a way to make that area move a bit better. Single-lane roundabouts you normally need like 120-150' of clearance...2 lane roundabouts you need 180-200' depending on how to set it up.

[Just the facts]

Didn't we just learn about 2 months ago that Texas transportation funding is about to collapse under its debt? Not only will they not be able to build new roads, they won't be able to maintain what they just built. Anyone can appear to live high on the hog when they are borrowing money to pay for it, but when the credit runs out.... then what? They had to transfer $1.2 billion from the states rainy day fund just to make ends meet this year. I prefer to build smarter - not harder.

I don't want to derail this thread so this will be my last Texas post on the subject.

http://www.kxan.com/news/community-e...ding-necessity

Experts say Texas needs to spend $4 billion more per year just to maintain the current road network, but the Republican majority has refused to raise taxes or fees to pay for them. Diverting money from the state's savings account was considered the more politically acceptable option.

Business groups warned earlier Monday that the Texas economy would suffer if the Legislature didn't do something to improve the state's deteriorating infrastructure.

[ou48A]

Didn't we just learn about 2 months ago that Texas transportation funding is about to collapse under its debt? Not only will they not be able to build new roads, they won't be able to maintain what they just built. Anyone can appear to live high on the hog when they are borrowing money to pay for it, but when the credit runs out.... then what? They had to transfer $1.2 billion from the states rainy day fund just to make ends meet this year. I prefer to build smarter - not harder.

I don't want to derail this thread so this will be my last Texas post on the subject.

KXAN - Texas Legislature debates road funding | KXAN.com

Those concerns are way over blown and are being used for political posturing... the reality is.....





“Texas is the best credit in the U.S.,”

Texas has a top credit rating from Moody’s Investors Service.
Texas also has about $11.8 billion in its reserves and its growing.

Texas Energy Boom Fuels Best Performance Since ?09: Muni Credit - Bloomberg

[Mr T]

Councilperson Holman posted on Facebook that there is a video. I don't remember how to link stuff (old lady here) but it is on Youtube and is called "Dan Burden: Livable Lindsey Street." If it has already been posted, sorry! I didn't want to go back through all the Dallas (?) stuff.

[venture]

Here you go:

[venture]

One thing I find very interesting in the video is just how well the roundabouts will fit in the existing right of ways. The problem arrives when certain city planners are pushing to have 4 lanes through every intersection when based on the details in the article - they aren't needed. A single land roundabout can handle over 20,000 cars per day with little in the way of back ups as long as there is a string of roundabouts throughout the road. As soon as a traffic light gets in there then it can all be screwed up.

[ou48A]

One thing I find very interesting in the video is just how well the roundabouts will fit in the existing right of ways. The problem arrives when certain city planners are pushing to have 4 lanes through every intersection when based on the details in the article - they aren't needed. A single land roundabout can handle over 20,000 cars per day with little in the way of back ups as long as there is a string of roundabouts throughout the road. As soon as a traffic light gets in there then it can all be screwed up.

City engineers and others know that a single lane does not fit the needs on Lindsey Street on game day making single roundabouts unpractical given all the necessary consideration involved. If there were no game days or other large events a single lane with roundabouts would be manageable, but that’s not the case.

[HangryHippo]

City engineers and others know that a single lane does not fit the needs on Lindsey Street on game day making single roundabouts unpractical given all the necessary consideration involved. If there were no game days or other large events a single lane with roundabouts would be manageable, but that’s not the case.

I don't understand why an event that takes place roughly 6-7 times per year should be the overriding concern...